How are Mormons, Muslims and non-Catholic Protestant Christians really that different?

[Jimmy_B]

I don’t understand. Yes, new and better translations may appear over time, but what does that have to do with when you said the KJV of today is not the same as the KJV of 30 years ago?

Hello again Bran,

Thank you for your post.

I don’t have the time at this moment to put together all of the examples, nor do I feel up to it right now. What I suggest is that you conduct your own research, using a Catholic Bible or Bibles and various KJV Bibles for the last few decades, focusing on the areas that divide us, Catholic and Protestant and I think you’ll appreciate what I’m saying here.

One of these days, when I’m up to it, I will start a side-by-side comparison of the most significant differences. I know I can’t be the only person here at CAF who has compared different, English versions of the Bible and how that has helped to shape so many different and apposing beliefs.

A little help here… Anyone… Anyone…

Your thoughts?

 

[ibneahmad]

I’ll just add that the Catholic Bible is the true book…

How could one say that? Jesus did not write the Book the Catholics have. Did he?

 

[mwok]

How could one say that? Jesus did not write the Book the Catholics have. Did he?

Not directly, written by men inspired by God. Or more specifically the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church however took all writings in question of being inspired or not and compiled the inspired texts into what we have today.

 

[ibneahmad]

Not directly, written by men inspired by God. Or more specifically the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church however took all writings in question of being inspired or not and compiled the inspired texts into what we have today.

How could the scribes be inspired when they, sometimes if not often, wrote things which Jesus and Mary never believed in or acted upon.

Did Jesus give the scribes express authority to write things on his behalf when he lived before the event of crucifixion?

I think Jesus did not write anything himself nor he gave anyone absolute and express authority to write on his behalf.

Did he?

 

[mwok]

How could the scribes be inspired when they, sometimes if not often, wrote things which Jesus and Mary never believed in or acted upon.

Did Jesus give the scribes express authority to write things on his behalf when he lived before the event of crucifixion?

I think Jesus did not write anything himself nor he gave anyone absolute and express authority to write on his behalf.

Did he?

What beliefs of Jesus and Mary are you referring to, please?

 

[Defender1]

I agree, I’ll just add that the Catholic Bible is the true book… Unfortunately, there are bad Protestant versions of the Bible out there and anyone who has researched the differences between the real Bible (Catholic Bible) and some versions of the KJV know exactly what I’m talking about. It’s difficult to have a logical, realistic or rational discussion with someone who is using a different book, especially when they aren’t ware of the fact that they are using a different book.

You thoughts?

I agree with you. We also cannot forget that the Protestant bibles of course do not have the 7 deuterocanon books we have in the OT .WIsdom (being one of them) in chapter 2 shows clearest piece of Prophecy of Jesus Christ .Anyway aside from that choice of language use in the bible s differ well making it harder at times to bring a point across .

 

[CopticChristian]

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

We say this every Sunday. They do not.

Εἰς μίαν, Ἁγίαν, Καθολικὴν καὶ Ἀποστολικὴν Ἐκκλησίαν.

One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church

We say this every sunday.

 

[CopticChristian]

How are today’s Mormons (LDS), Muslims (Islamists) and non-Catholic Protestant Christians (all 36,000 different non-Christian denominations) really that different? After all, they all reject various aspects of Catholicism. They all share the same God of Abraham and they wrote their own “Bibles”, the KJV, the Koran and the Book of Mormon… taking much of what they wrote from the original Catholic Bible. Is there really just two groups of believers, those who are Catholic and those who came after Catholicism, who in my opinion tried to re-invent their religions using the Catholic Model? Or, basically copying the Catholic Church… but on their terms now…

Your thoughts?

As I understand it Mormons are not monotheistic, Muslims and Protestants are. In the sense that they created belief systems Islam was borne of a study of Judaism and Christianity. Protestant thought was borne of deranged Catholics and Mormonism was borne from Protestant thought.

Are they that different? There are those that do not have the law and are circumcised of the heart and those that do what the law requires even though they have not the law. No, not so different.

 

[CopticChristian]

How could the scribes be inspired when they, sometimes if not often, wrote things which Jesus and Mary never believed in or acted upon.

Did Jesus give the scribes express authority to write things on his behalf when he lived before the event of crucifixion?

I think Jesus did not write anything himself nor he gave anyone absolute and express authority to write on his behalf.

Did he?

It is recorded he wrote in the sand. What we do not know.

I am not sure what the notion of giving someone to write on behalf of is all about.

 

[Jimmy_B]

How could one say that? Jesus did not write the Book the Catholics have. Did he?

Who did?

 

[Jimmy_B]

First came the Prophets, Jesus and others and their lives, actions and words… Then came the followers and the Church… Then came the Bible.

Much of the Bible is a record of people and events, written well after the fact, describing those people and those various events. The Catholic Church and Catholic Popes decided what went into the Bible and what didn’t. That’s a historical fact!

I find it interesting that there are non-Catholics who reject traditions, when in fact, it is those traditions, oral and otherwise that ultimately lead to the formation of the Bible.

My main point here regarding those things that non-Catholic religions have in common, is that they hold beliefs that began as Catholic beliefs. Martin Luther would have no bases for any of his arguments against Catholicism, had there been no Catholic Church.

Protestants would have no one to “protest” against, if there were no Catholic Church.

Many things written in the Koran, obviously originated from the Bible (a Catholic book) and from the Catholic Church and from beliefs that originated as Catholic beliefs.

LDS (Mormons) wouldn’t exist if not for the Catholic Church, which preceded LDS.

Am the only one here that can see this? In a sense, it is a form of plagiarism and a re-write… hundreds of years after the fact.

They are all cases where various religions and denominations took those things Catholic that they agreed with and then rejected those things they didn’t but those beliefs started as Catholic beliefs.

How is it that the Catholic Church got so many Christian beliefs right, according to what’s copied by other religions… but don’t have the same credibility and authority when it comes to beliefs that these different founders, of these different non-Catholic religions disagree with.

Does this make sense to you (generally speaking)

Your thoughts?

 

[Jimmy_B]

First came the Prophets, Jesus and others and their lives, actions and words… Then came the followers and the Church… Then came the Bible.

Much of the Bible is a record of people and events, written well after the fact, describing those people and those various events. The Catholic Church and Catholic Popes decided what went into the Bible and what didn’t. That’s a historical fact!

I find it interesting that there are non-Catholics who reject traditions, when in fact, it is those traditions, oral and otherwise that ultimately lead to the formation of the Bible.

My main point here regarding those things that non-Catholic religions have in common, is that they hold beliefs that began as Catholic beliefs. Martin Luther would have no bases for any of his arguments against Catholicism, had there been no Catholic Church.

Protestants would have no one to “protest” against, if there were no Catholic Church.

Many things written in the Koran, obviously originated from the Bible (a Catholic book) and from the Catholic Church and from beliefs that originated as Catholic beliefs.

LDS (Mormons) wouldn’t exist if not for the Catholic Church, which preceded LDS.

Am the only one here that can see this? In a sense, it is a form of plagiarism and a re-write… hundreds of years after the fact.

They are all cases where various religions and denominations took those things Catholic that they agreed with and then rejected those things they didn’t but those beliefs started as Catholic beliefs.

How is it that the Catholic Church got so many Christian beliefs right, according to what’s copied by other religions… but don’t have the same credibility and authority when it comes to beliefs that these different founders, of these different non-Catholic religions disagree with.

Does this make sense to you (generally speaking)

Your thoughts?

It would be like me taking a Harry Potter book, for example, copying most of it, rewriting it and making a few changes that I disagree with and then saying that, “This is the real Harry Potter book”, or “This is the real Harry Potter story”, or movie and so on. I doesn’t make any sense and these reinventions of religion and denominations which are rooted in Catholic beliefs, lack credibility especially when they espouse anti-Catholic views.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

Jimmy Blah:

LDS (Mormons) wouldn’t exist if not for the Catholic Church, which preceded LDS. Am the only one here that can see this? In a sense, it is a form of plagiarism

So sue us or stop whining.

 

[abcdxyz]

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

We say this every Sunday. They do not.

Actually, both Lutherans and Anglicans DO say the Creed every Sunday.

 

[1holycatholic]

Actually, both Lutherans and Anglicans DO say the Creed every Sunday.

Yes, but they have to do mental gymnastics when they get to the part about the Church.

 

[abcdxyz]

Yes, but they have to do mental gymnastics when they get to the part about the Church.

No, they just realize that “the Church” is the whole of Christendom, not just their denomination.

 

[1holycatholic]

No, they just realize that “the Church” is the whole of Christendom, not just their denomination.

Christ’s Church Subsists in the Catholic Church

Lumen Gentium:
…
This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd, and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority, which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”. This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.
…

[CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS
OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE CHURCH](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...ith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html)
…
FIFTH QUESTION

Why do the texts of the Council and those of the Magisterium since the Council not use the title of “Church” with regard to those Christian Communities born out of the Reformation of the sixteenth century?

RESPONSE

According to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called “Churches” in the proper sense.
…

 

[wisdomseeker]

First came the Prophets, Jesus and others and their lives, actions and words… Then came the followers and the Church… Then came the Bible.

Much of the Bible is a record of people and events, written well after the fact, describing those people and those various events. The Catholic Church and Catholic Popes decided what went into the Bible and what didn’t. That’s a historical fact!

I find it interesting that there are non-Catholics who reject traditions, when in fact, it is those traditions, oral and otherwise that ultimately lead to the formation of the Bible.

My main point here regarding those things that non-Catholic religions have in common, is that they hold beliefs that began as Catholic beliefs. Martin Luther would have no bases for any of his arguments against Catholicism, had there been no Catholic Church.

Protestants would have no one to “protest” against, if there were no Catholic Church.

Many things written in the Koran, obviously originated from the Bible (a Catholic book) and from the Catholic Church and from beliefs that originated as Catholic beliefs.

LDS (Mormons) wouldn’t exist if not for the Catholic Church, which preceded LDS.

Am the only one here that can see this? In a sense, it is a form of plagiarism and a re-write… hundreds of years after the fact.

They are all cases where various religions and denominations took those things Catholic that they agreed with and then rejected those things they didn’t but those beliefs started as Catholic beliefs.

How is it that the Catholic Church got so many Christian beliefs right, according to what’s copied by other religions… but don’t have the same credibility and authority when it comes to beliefs that these different founders, of these different non-Catholic religions disagree with.

Does this make sense to you (generally speaking)

Your thoughts?

Well put it Jim. The reading today on Thessalonians. St Paul writes to them to adominish the people. This means that before he wrote, the Church was already in place. no one knows but the Church and Jesus what the Church is to do and how to worship. The letters came after the Church was already in place and those letters was telling the people how they were to behave. Many read the letters and try to build a church but it isnt working for them. Thanks be to God that only His Church has the revelations of Christ who protects His Church and His Church alone.

 

[telmab7]

Speaking to the topic of how Protestantism differs from Catholicism

On the subject of radicalized Protestantism meaning non-liturgical non-ecclesiastical in the emergent church movement
This emergent Church movement began only several hundred years ago and it began with the likes of Calvinism , Anabaptists, (Mennonite/Amish/Quakers) and Methodism who broke away from Episcopal /Anglicanism and the Pentecostal Evangelical series that broke away from the Methodist to create yet more new belief systems in the early 1900s

Although all Christians believe that we are saved by God’s grace and have a belief in the One Holy Baptism (with the exception of some Pentecostal denominations that have a belief of going through a second water baptism of their own making ) on these points we agree

From this fork all roads diverge
The Catholic Church holds to the attainment and sustainment of a Sacramental relationship with the Body of Christ administered by an ordained Holy Priesthood
This Bishophric succession comes from the laying on of hands in Ordination in an unbroken succession to the 12 Apostles in the Church established by Jesus Christ himself

Further drastic differences can be found in what is the Word of God and What is the Body of Christ
The Word of God is Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition wedded together and inseparable without damage
The Body Of Christ is it’s people gathered in these Truths that are alive in heaven and on earth that are united with the reception of the Real Presence of Jesus Christ that is brought to bear on the altar by Christ who is both the victim and the high priest
Although there is a mystical body of Christ (Corpus Mysticum) loosely joined together by Baptism as newly defined by the Catholic Church in the 1970s ecumenical movement of Vatican II to include these separated Christians beneath this and more deeply is the real body united to this mystery “Corpus Verum” whereby the Lord gives us his true Body and only this Body in this Sacrament can build up the City of God in “Truth and Spirit”

 

[telmab7]

Radicalized Protestantism believe this to be achieved after baptism by a declaration of your Faith alone in Jesus hybrid together with different percentages of belief that it can be guided by a Scripture Alone law of faith to back up their version of Christianity but in order to do this their various organization must apply untold amounts of personal interpretation of scripture whereby 2 Peter 1:20 dictates that there is no personal interpretation of scripture

In non-liturgical Protestant worship systems they believe in reduced form of worship whereby by their sacrifice is one of praise and thanksgiving only
We both have the Liturgy of the Word (in their case part of it) Catholicism also has a sacrifice of praise and worship but for us that is only a supporting element not the primary focus of our Worship system The center of our Worship system is Him The sacrifice of Him by Him in unity with our the father’s Semitic Faith
On this altar is bound up the fantastic mysteries of the Incarnation and resurrection whereby the ultimate personal relationship with Jesus Christ is achieved when w consume Him completely Body Blood Soul and Divinity after working day and night towards cleaning, a purifying, through the Lord’s Grace this Transformation in Christ can be achieved supernaturally when heaven, earth, past , present and future become united at that moment to both us and Him

The Catholic Faith was and is established as a theocracy ruled by a Heavenly Father in line with an earthly Holy Father with the scriptural ensured protection of that unbroken lineage until the end of time through the See (seat) of Peter’s succession It is the oldest still intact institution on the planet earth It was not made by the hands of men

Protestantism is a democracy whose doctrines are voted on a determined not by this Holy theocracy but by the hands of men
To date they have changed the law of divorce, abortion and gay sex tin the majority of all denominations to name just a few as thy continue to rapidly conform to the secularism of the world
They do so because they broke in a rebellion of “protest- ant –ism that was primarily a socio –political economic –movement that latter that forcefully necessitated a religious revisionism of the Christian soteriology (the salvation formula to achieve heaven and eternal life)
In the early 1600s they invented a new bible with 66 books in it removing seven key Old Testament teachings that substantiate that
“Salvation comes from the Jews” as Jesus said
They sought to reinvent that the Jewish religion from the beginning to now as is ours is 1/3 codified /oral tradition
We inherited the God of the Israelites through the miracles of the God-man Son of God the Father in union with the Holy Spirit

Thiers is a very very different form of Christianity which some, Catholics have a very difficult time coming to terms with especially in lieu of some of the confusing liberalisms and writings that came down in the late 1960s in advisory council that was intended to bring ecumenism but instead brought an mis- interpretive substation for many of acceptable co-existence

There is another thing that we all share common belief in
We believe that Truth is absolute and there are not “multiple Truths” (unless we discuss of course the various pagan and gnostic forms of religion )and on the last day of the earth or the last day of our lives we will see the Truth of Him face to face and on this day many practicing Christians will be awestruck to see this fullness of Truth for what it is
There are only three forms of religion in this world There is the search for authentic Christianity in the Body of Jesus Christ , there is Judaism, and there is Paganism
There are no other categories outside of which is aetheism

Karl Keating once wrote that if you so wish you can get near the bottom of this treasure well
If you are prepared to do this it will take much research –much scriptural study of the languages of translation errors much prayer – a lot of money – a lot of books
Libraries –sleepless nights – Christian history research – more bible reading you will find it

I have been on both sides and I have seen sought out all these things for years and I know from the top of my head to my toes from my heart to mind to my soul that it is the God’s honest Truth I only wish I could have said as many of my brothers and sisters have that have not undertaken all this research
John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen (me)you believe Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
If you seek Him Truth will find you
Laudetur Jesu Christus Et Maria Immaculata
Mark