How Are "SDAs" Not In Harmony With The Apostles?

[Protestant101]

I would be curious to see official teachings and related coments on something another poster said about my denomination in another thread:

I agree with you, having known many fervent and obedient SDA’s. However, one of those commandments was to be in unity with the Apostles, which the SDA’s are not

Why would this be true; and can you give some proof.

 

[JMJ_coder]

I would be curious to see official teachings and related coments on something another poster said about my denomination in another thread:

Why would this be true; and can you give some proof.

For one, denial of the day of worship changing from Saturday to Sunday, the Day of the Lord. To learn how and why this goes back to the Apostles, I suggest you read Dies Domini.

 

[Protestant101]

For one, denial of the day of worship changing from Saturday to Sunday, the Day of the Lord. To learn how and why this goes back to the Apostles, I suggest you read Dies Domini.

OK; I have a copy of that document. But it is a large document. Can you be more specific, and give us an actual quote or passage wherein you feel that we can see proof that Seventh day Adventists do not follow the Apostles and their teachings? When and how did this change of the day of worship take place, according to this document?

 

[guanophore]

I would be curious to see official teachings and related coments on something another poster said about my denomination in another thread:

Why would this be true; and can you give some proof.

I cannot give “proof”, having no personal experience SDA, but based on my observations, I have found SDA’s to be radically sold out to their understanding of the gospel of Jesus. I grew up next door to an SDA family whose many children literally RAN into the house at nightfall on Fri. so as to avoid profanation of the Sabbath.

 

[JMJ_coder]

OK; I have a copy of that document. But it is a large document. Can you be more specific, and give us an actual quote or passage wherein you feel that we can see proof that Seventh day Adventists do not follow the Apostles and their teachings? When and how did this change of the day of worship take place, according to this document?

It’s really not that long, and can be read in a comparable amount of time to, say, the Gospel of Saint Mark.

I am timid in limiting the selection for reading, as it forms a comprehensive whole, and you may very likely get something out of context without that whole. But, if you understand that that warning, you might start at paragraph 18.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

I would be curious to see official teachings and related coments on something another poster said about my denomination in another thread:

Why would this be true; and can you give some proof.

Proof of this comes from the SDA’s own doctrines. SDAs freely admit that nothing (with the exception of EGW) that was written after the Bible is binding. They do not recognize apostolic succession and therefore have refused to be in unity with any of the Apostles since Paul.

 

[guanophore]

I would be curious to see official teachings and related coments on something another poster said about my denomination in another thread:

Why would this be true; and can you give some proof.

If you are willing to study the early documents, I think it will be very clear to you that all the Apostles and their successors were in unity with one another. Those who departed from this unity were not part of the Church.

I recommend Justin Martyr, Against Heresies. you will also learn there that your spiritual ancestors long ago abandoned the Apostolic understanding of the Eucharist.

May God bless you in your inquiry.

 

[Protestant101]

It’s really not that long, and can be read in a comparable amount of time to, say, the Gospel of Saint Mark.

I am timid in limiting the selection for reading, as it forms a comprehensive whole, and you may very likely get something out of context without that whole. But, if you understand that that warning, you might start at paragraph 18.

Well, I printed it from the Vatican’s site and it’s 40 pages. To me; it is a big document, and it is therefore very useful to give specific quotes and references therein. Like many writings; it obviously has to be understood as a “whole” yet with Bible truth, the smaller parts, can each be considered in context, to determine various points of doctrine and practice. After all, it is very impractical to quote the whole document in a post, just like it would be a bit of overkill to quote the whole Bible, when just a verse or two would make the point clear.

I can see how you, as a Catholic would quote the 18th paragraph of Dies Domini, in answer to my question; but i am quite interested in pursuing further details as taken from paragraph 19:

“We celebrate Sunday because of the venerable Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and we do so not only at Easter, but also at each turning of the week;” wrote Pope Innocent I at the beginning of the 5th century, testifying to an already well established practice which had evolved from the early years after the Lord’s resurrection…"

1/ Where does the Bible tell us to “celebrate Sunday” “in honor of the resurrection?” The Bible makes it clear that the Apostles kept the seventh day Sabbath. Therefore, Seventh-day Adventists in this particular, do indeed follow the Apostles.

2/ Were there any earlier Popes than Innocent I who wrote about Sunday? If so, what did they say? Where can we find it on the internet?

 

[Protestant101]

Proof of this comes from the SDA’s own doctrines. SDAs freely admit that nothing (with the exception of EGW) that was written after the Bible is binding. They do not recognize apostolic succession and therefore have refused to be in unity with any of the Apostles since Paul.

1/ Where do Adventists specifically state that “nothing (with the exception of Ellen G White) that was written after the Bible is binding?”

2/ Can you show us exactly where & how Adventists teach that we are not to believe in Apostolic succession? I think all that you will be able to prove is that we do not condone the Catholic version of it.

 

[Protestant101]

I cannot give “proof”, having no personal experience SDA, but based on my observations, I have found SDA’s to be radically sold out to their understanding of the gospel of Jesus. I grew up next door to an SDA family whose many children literally RAN into the house at nightfall on Fri. so as to avoid profanation of the Sabbath.

Well; you speak as though it is wrong to hurry when we want to obey God. What is wrong with running to obey Him? Where does the Bible condem such a thing?

Isa 40:31

But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

It is not wrong to run with or for Jesus, in obedience to His Holy Law.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Regarding Sunday Worship:

Col 2

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Acts 20

7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Romans 14

5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother?

Gal 4
8Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

St. Ignatius writing in about 105 AD:

Chapter 9. Let us live with Christ
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death— whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master— how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, having come, raised them from the dead.
newadvent.org/fathers/0105.htm

 

[guanophore]

1/ Where does the Bible tell us to “celebrate Sunday” “in honor of the resurrection?” The Bible makes it clear that the Apostles kept the seventh day Sabbath. Therefore, Seventh-day Adventists in this particular, do indeed follow the Apostles.

This question is based upon a false premise. One must assume that every Christian practice must be “Bible told” to us. This is a fabrication, as the Bible was never meant to be a compendium of religious practice for Christians.

Yes, the Apostles and Jesus observed the seventh day sabbath. They also observed Resurrection on Sunday morning, and the birth of the Church on Pentecost.

The Apostles passed on their authority through their successors, and those successors chose Sunday to observe in recognition of the Resurrection.

 **2/** Were there any earlier Popes than Innocent I who wrote about Sunday? If so, what did they say? Where can we find it on the internet?

How about the early Fathers, even if they were not Popes?

The early Christians celebrated Mass on Sundays.

… Apostolic succession? I think all that you will be able to prove is that we do not condone the Catholic version of it.

That is the main reason I say that SDA’s are not Apostolic in obedience.

 

[guanophore]

Well; you speak as though it is wrong to hurry when we want to obey God. What is wrong with running to obey Him?

It is not wrong to run with or for Jesus, in obedience to His Holy Law.

Not at all! This family was my first exposure to SDA, and their faithful, prompt, strict obedience to their faith made a very postiive impression on me (and still does to this day)

Where does the Bible condem such a thing?

Again your question is based on an erroneous foundation. It presumes that everything that is to be condemned is found in the Bible. The Bible was never intended to function that way.

 

[bpbasilphx]

For one thing, the SDAs teach that Jesus is the Archangel Michael made flesh.

The Apostles taught that Jesus is GOD made flesh.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I would be curious to see official teachings and related coments on something another poster said about my denomination in another thread:

Why would this be true; and can you give some proof.

I personally don’t think its true. Many early Christians continued to observe the saturday sabbath. See the letters of bishop Ignatius of antioch. Even today the church in Ethiopia observes the saturday sabbath. It’s not un-christian to continue observing the saturday sabbath… it’s just unusual among Christians.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

1/ Where do Adventists specifically state that “nothing (with the exception of Ellen G White) that was written after the Bible is binding?”

2/ Can you show us exactly where & how Adventists teach that we are not to believe in Apostolic succession? I think all that you will be able to prove is that we do not condone the Catholic version of it.

adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/interp%20scripture%20davidson.pdf

SDAs profess to teach and believe Sola Scriptura (with a little wiggle room for slipping EGW in). The link above is to a paper written by a member of the SDA seminary which discusses the matter at length and proves that SDA doctrines stem from Sola Scriptura.

Sola Scriptura precludes accepting anything outside of the Bible as being binding. That is why the SDA denomination allows abortion, no where in the Bible does it say “Thou shalt not murder the unborn.”

 

[Protestant101]

adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/interp%20scripture%20davidson.pdf

SDAs profess to teach and believe Sola Scriptura (with a little wiggle room for slipping EGW in). The link above is to a paper written by a member of the SDA seminary which discusses the matter at length and proves that SDA doctrines stem from Sola Scriptura.

Sola Scriptura precludes accepting anything outside of the Bible as being binding. That is why the SDA denomination allows abortion, no where in the Bible does it say “Thou shalt not murder the unborn.”

You have vaguely answered my #1 question; yet within that document, where does it preclude anything written after the Bible; as long as it is Biblical? “As long as the Bible is the final word on anything written” is what the article says. So that people can understand better the differences in how Catholics and Protestants (SDAs) “interpret” Scripture, you can check it out here. It is the same article, slightly edited, and presented a bit differenty, but the text is the same.

You should also read articles that correctly explain our position on Ellen G White. Click here for a brief picture.

I will look forward to your answer re my #2 question.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Prot 101:

I graduated from Andrews University with a minor in religion, I know what SDAs believe about EGW. I also know that what they say to non-SDAs about her and what they say among themselves about her are two completely different things.

Marsha

 

[Protestant101]

Prot 101:

I graduated from Andrews University with a minor in religion, I know what SDAs believe about EGW. I also know that what they say to non-SDAs about her and what they say among themselves about her are two completely different things.

Marsha

OK Marsha, whatever you say.

 

[guanophore]

You have vaguely answered my #1 question; yet within that document, where does it preclude anything written after the Bible; as long as it is Biblical? “As long as the Bible is the final word on anything written” is what the article says. So that people can understand better the differences in how Catholics and Protestants (SDAs) “interpret” Scripture, you can check it out here. It is the same article, slightly edited, and presented a bit differenty, but the text is the same.

You should also read articles that correctly explain our position on Ellen G White. Click here for a brief picture.

I will look forward to your answer re my #2 question.

Sola Scriptura itself is a departure from Apostolic Teaching. It isn’t even biblical itself! You would think, if the Bible were to be the sole authority, then it would say this about itself.