How are we saved?

[twb1621]

mdcpensive 1Thank you for your response; In order to be saved, One must call upon the Lord, must believe the gospel, repent, be baptized to show repentance, then tell others to confirm their salvation. If a child understands to do all of that, he/she must do it to be saved. If a child does not understand that, as Jesus says the kingdom of God belongs to them. If it does not mean that, then you or anyone tell me what Jesus means by that Scripture verse and why is it there? Thank you for asking

I myself completely agree with this. It is clear that in the OT Children are “a gift from God Himself.” Jesus did make the comparison that all should be “as Children” and that “the kingdom of Heaven “belongs” to such as these children. As Jesus is the Savior of all man through His passion, death and resurrection, and these words are His proclamation, it is not to say they are born again but in His decision, perhaps, should their life be cut short before their time of recognition and reasoning, they may in fact be forgiven of original sin. No where in the Bible or Church teachings does it say they are condemned to eternal damnation but their certainly is enough in scripture to consider this salvation. Also, it is Biblical that parents are the ones responsible for the teachings of God to their children.

 

[ralphy]

Maybe you are not understanding my dilema about your statements or maybe I haven’t written my concerns well enough, so let me try again and I thank you for your patience.

You have used the scripture of Mark 10:14 to state all children are saved “Let the children come to me …for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these”. You use this scripture to assume salvation for all children. You have also said that as adults one must be able to speak to “confess with your lips” in order to be saved. It logically follows then that one must loose salvation so to be able to gain it again by speaking with their lips. I hope you see the confusion that I am having.

Upon reflection, you assume that by saying the Lord wants children to come to him that it is salvation that they already have. Can you tell me why it is salvation and not grace or faith??? I can’t find this stuff in scripture. Can you give me some background on this please.

mdcpensive1

My understanding from the Word of God (Bible) is that if children should die befor the age of reason,(that is befor they understand that they are lost and need a Savior), they will not be held accountable for their sin and will go to heaven should they pass away. When they reach the age of understanding (and this could be different ages for each person), then they must make a choice after hearing the gospel of Salvation if they will accept or reject this free gift that God offers to them through the Blood of Jesus Christ. It then become their responsibility. Ralph

 

[EdOsiecki]

Maybe you are not understanding my dilema about your statements or maybe I haven’t written my concerns well enough, so let me try again and I thank you for your patience.

You have used the scripture of Mark 10:14 to state all children are saved “Let the children come to me …for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these”. You use this scripture to assume salvation for all children. You have also said that as adults one must be able to speak to “confess with your lips” in order to be saved. It logically follows then that one must loose salvation so to be able to gain it again by speaking with their lips. I hope you see the confusion that I am having.

Upon reflection, you assume that by saying the Lord wants children to come to him that it is salvation that they already have. Can you tell me why it is salvation and not grace or faith??? I can’t find this stuff in scripture. Can you give me some background on this please.

mdcpensive1

Thank you for your response, let me clarify this first: when I say we must call upon the Lord, it could be audily or it could be calling upon the Lord with your mind, so that should
clarify the problem with children who haven’t learned to speak yet. Now for the rest of your quetions, Twb 1621 on # 253 answers and explains it better than I could. I hope this helps you . Thanks for asking.

 

[EdOsiecki]

My understanding from the Word of God (Bible) is that if children should die befor the age of reason,(that is befor they understand that they are lost and need a Savior), they will not be held accountable for their sin and will go to heaven should they pass away. When they reach the age of understanding (and this could be different ages for each person), then they must make a choice after hearing the gospel of Salvation if they will accept or reject this free gift that God offers to them through the Blood of Jesus Christ. It then become their responsibility. Ralph

Ed, says thank you Ralph, That’s exactly what I mean, especially salvation later through the BLOOD (not water baptism ) of Jesus. Water baptism does NOT remit any sin whatsoever. If I did there would not have been any reason for Jesus to die such a horrible death. He took our sins and He was made sin in order to free us from going to hell. Thanks for your help.

 

[SHW]

Ed, says thank you Ralph, That’s exactly what I mean, especially salvation later through the BLOOD (not water baptism ) of Jesus. Water baptism does NOT remit any sin whatsoever. If I did there would not have been any reason for Jesus to die such a horrible death. He took our sins and He was made sin in order to free us from going to hell. Thanks for your help.

Peter states that Baptism saves us. Baptism applies the merits of Jesus’ Blood Sacrifice on the cross to our souls since He did not desire to have us bathed in His literal Blood in order for us to be saved.

1 Peter 3:21 “There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”

This is not a bath or shower like we take every day in order to clean sweat and dirt from our bodies, but is instead baptismal water which cleanses our souls for our spiritual regeneration (which gives us a good conscience toward God). (Titus 3:5)

Baptism is the washing of water and the word (Ephesians 5:26) and it sanctifies us. (Matthew 28:19) We are made disciples of Christ through baptism. The baptizer calls on the name of the Lord as he pours water on/immerses the person being baptized so that his sins will be forgiven. (Romans 10:12-13, Mark 16:16)

1 Corinthians 6:11 “And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” This is describing baptism and what it does for us.

We are born again through water baptism in the names of God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). (Matthew 28:19)

John 3:3-5 “Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you,** unless one is born again**, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” This is describing baptism.

Water and the Spirit of God makes us “born again.” It applies the merits of Jesus’ Sacrifice on the Cross to our souls in order to make us sons of God. (Romans 8:14)

All of these Scriptures refer to water baptism and how it saves us. We receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptized. We also receive the Holy Spirit in the laying on of hands which we call Confirmation since this outpouring of the Holy Spirit (fire) confirms us in the faith and gives us more graces in order to help us live good Christian lives. (Acts 1:4-5, Acts 2)

Acts 22:16 “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

Baptism washes away our sins! Baptism sanctifies us. Baptism makes us disciples of Christ. Baptism makes us born again. Baptism saves us. Baptism makes us sons of God. Baptism regenerates us spiritually. Baptism justifies us. Baptism is a great gift from God!!!

SHW

 

[SteveGC]

Ed, says thank you Ralph, That’s exactly what I mean, especially salvation later through the BLOOD (not water baptism ) of Jesus. Water baptism does NOT remit any sin whatsoever. If I did there would not have been any reason for Jesus to die such a horrible death. He took our sins and He was made sin in order to free us from going to hell. Thanks for your help.

Baptism isn’t an “alternative” method of salvation, which somehow “replaces” Christ’s atonement. On the contrary, baptism is intrinsically linked to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. It is the application of His atonement to our souls (as SHW points out above). As such, Christ’s atonement was the originating source of the offering of salvation to all. Baptism, along with lifelong faith, obedience and repentance are the methods by which that offering is made manifest in our lives.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Thank you Randy for your response. I’m not saying anything. Jesus said that the King dom of God belongs to the children. In my opinion, It could mean to the age of accoutability. Nowhere in the New Testament, have any babies been baptized to become born again (saved) according to your understanding of John3:5 Jesus didn’t baptize any children either did John or any of the apostles, I’m sure there were plenty of babies around then, there seemed not to be any concern so Jesus must mean what He says. Thanks for asking.

That’s not really what I asked.

Are young children who die assured of going to heaven or not?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Ed, says thank you Ralph, That’s exactly what I mean, especially salvation later through the BLOOD (not water baptism ) of Jesus. Water baptism does NOT remit any sin whatsoever.

Baptism Washes Away Sin

Acts 2:38-39
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

At Pentecost, Peter told the crowd to “be baptized…for the forgiveness of…sins.” After that, “you will receive…the Holy Spirit”. Once again, we see the elements of Water and Spirit…just as Ezekiel prophesied. Note too, that this promise is for “you and your children” – a clear endorsement of infant baptism.

Acts 22:16
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. (Acts 22:16)

 

[ralphy]

Ed, says thank you Ralph, That’s exactly what I mean, especially salvation later through the BLOOD (not water baptism ) of Jesus. Water baptism does NOT remit any sin whatsoever. If I did there would not have been any reason for Jesus to die such a horrible death. He took our sins and He was made sin in order to free us from going to hell. Thanks for your help.

Only through the Blood of Jesus Christ can we be saved. PTL, Ralph.

 

[SHW]

Faith (of course), comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, the Bible. Ralph

Romans 2:13 “for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;”

James 1:21-26 “Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless.”

Looks like you missed a couple of passages. “Hearing” is just the first step. “Obeying”/“doing” the will of God is what approves you for eternal life when you die. (Matthew 7:20-23, James 1:12, Hebrews 5:9)

SHW

 

[mdcpensive1]

Thank you for your response, let me clarify this first: when I say we must call upon the Lord, it could be audily or it could be calling upon the Lord with your mind, so that should

clarify the problem with children who haven’t learned to speak yet. Now for the rest of your quetions, Twb 1621 on # 253 answers and explains it better than I could. I hope this helps you . Thanks for asking.

Thanks Ed for the reply. Two things are still bothering me. One is that you think that babies can think in a language that can ask God to save them. I have never heard of this. How have they attained the special skills of language? Is this what scholars teach?? The other is the quote from the scripture Mark 10:14 which asks why you pick the meaning as salvation instead of grace or faith for the children. Could you please clarify.

mdcpensive1

 

[EdOsiecki]

If I can

I understand what you say however, you are discounting the teachings of those who you obtain the very gospel from and that is fact. You claim; “…However, when reading the Bible, the born again believers have the Holy Spirit to teach them. Unless you want to become a teacher, more training should be sought. Mat.4:4 states," It is written: Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God." The verse says “mouth” of God, not book or written scripts of God. In this you should realize the Bible is not all that comes from the mouth of God, but a critical part just as Sacred Tradition is a critical part. You are completely discounting the fact no one at that time knew these writings would even be gathered as parts of the Bible one day so how can you attest to them to be the only teachings… The “born again” are not independently enabled by the Holy Spirit to interpret the Bible and the full word of God which is self-proven by the number of divisions created from this practice. Sola Scriptura is nothing more than the prince of this earth’s way to detour those who seek the right path to God through all that God offered us. The fact is there would have been no reasoning behind the proclamation of Jesus that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church until His return or assured she would endure to the end.

ACTS CH 1; 1 1 In the first book, Theophilus, I dealt with all that Jesus did and taught 2 until the day he was taken up, after giving instructions through the holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. 3 He presented himself alive to them by many proofs after he had suffered, appearing to them during forty days 2 and speaking about the kingdom of God. 4 While meeting with them, he enjoined them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for "the promise of the Father 3 about which you have heard me speak; 5 for John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the holy Spirit." 6 When they had gathered together they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going 4 to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 5 He answered them, "It is not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has established by his own authority. 8 6 But you will receive power when the holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
MATTHEW CH 28; 18 11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 **Go, therefore, **12 and make disciples (disciples are students, not teachers) of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, U] to observe all that I have commanded

ACTS CH 20; 28 Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, 6 in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock. 30 And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.”
Many more verses support the Church as the body to teach the faithful.

FONT=Times New Roman]see next post
Bless your heart twb1621, for taking time to write all of the above. Rather than to respond directly to what you wrote, please allow me the liberty to do it another way. Acts 10:19, the Holy Spirit (H.S.) said to Peter"Go", Acts 11:28 Agabus predicted by the H.S., Acts 13:2 the H.S.directed Paul and Barnabus, Acts 5:3 lied to the H.S. how can be you can’t see a spirit? Isa 40:13 "Who can advise the Spirit–or be his teacher or give him counsel? Acts 3:39 H.S. is a “Him”, When I got saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit, that person (Him) now dwells in me. One part of the Trinity all equal to each other. like water,ice and steam, same substance 3 diferent forms. So I’m Free! The Holy Spirit, teaches, directs, guides, protects,ect.ect. me.

 

[EdOsiecki]

Baptism Washes Away Sin

Acts 2:38-39
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

At Pentecost, Peter told the crowd to “be baptized…for the forgiveness of…sins.” After that, “you will receive…the Holy Spirit”. Once again, we see the elements of Water and Spirit…just as Ezekiel prophesied. Note too, that this promise is for “you and your children” – a clear endorsement of infant baptism.

Acts 22:16
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. (Acts 22:16)

Hi Randy,
In Acts 2:38-39 Peter lumps together repentance, forginess, baptism and Holy Spirit in one statement which appears as though the water baptism forgives sins, But these people got saved by the message they heard not by water bap. 41 “Those accepted the message”. Acts 19:1-4 Paul differentiates water baptism vs Holy Spirit Baptism. let’s go to the foundation of water baptism. Luke 1:15 John was filled with the Holy Spirit from birth. Shouldn’t he know why he’s being sent? Mat.3:3 (A) “to prepare the way for the Lord. (B) 11 John says,” I baptize you with water for REPENTANCE "That’s clear isn’t it? (C) He goes on to say one is comming “He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit” That’s exactly what took place in Acts 19 and Acts 8:12 People believed the gospel that Phillip preached and were baptized. In vs.16 "Because the Holy Spirit had NOT YET come upon any of them etc. vs 17 Then later, Peter and John came and placed their hands (prayed) on them and they (NOW) received the Holy Spirit. (emphasis added)

 

[Canto]

John 1:32 - when Jesus was baptized, He was baptized in the water and the Spirit descended upon Him in the form of a dove.

John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, “Amen, Amen, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (the Fathers and Council of Carthage 258 AD says this is about Baptism).

John 3:22-3 - after teaching on baptism, John says Jesus and the disciples did what? They went into Judea where the disciples baptized with water.

Acts 8:36 – the eunuch recognizes the necessity of water for his baptism.

Acts 10:47 - Peter says “can anyone forbid water for baptizing these people…?”

Acts 22:16 – Ananias tells Saul, “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins.” The “washing away” refers to water baptism.

Titus 3:5-6 – Paul writes about the “washing of regeneration,” which is “poured out on us” in reference to water baptism. “Washing” (loutron) generally refers to a ritual washing with water.

Heb. 10:22 – the author is also writing about water baptism in this verse. “Having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” Our bodies are washed with pure water in water baptism.

2 Kings 5:14 - Naaman dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, and his flesh was restored like that of a child. This foreshadows the regenerative function of baptism, by water and the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 44:3 - the Lord pours out His water and His Spirit.

Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.

scripturecatholic.com/baptism.html

 

[EdOsiecki]

That’s not really what I asked.

Are young children who die assured of going to heaven or not?

Hi Randy,

Ralph explains it better than I in #256 Thanks for asking

 

[EdOsiecki]

Thanks Ed for the reply. Two things are still bothering me. One is that you think that babies can think in a language that can ask God to save them. I have never heard of this. How have they attained the special skills of language? Is this what scholars teach?? The other is the quote from the scripture Mark 10:14 which asks why you pick the meaning as salvation instead of grace or faith for the children. Could you please clarify.

mdcpensive1

Thank you for your response. It seems as though there’s a disconnect between our communications. See Ralphy in # 256 he may help you better than I can. Thanks for your interest.

 

[EdOsiecki]

Baptism isn’t an “alternative” method of salvation, which somehow “replaces” Christ’s atonement. On the contrary, baptism is intrinsically linked to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. It is the application of His atonement to our souls (as SHW points out above). As such, Christ’s atonement was the originating source of the offering of salvation to all. Baptism, along with lifelong faith, obedience and repentance are the methods by which that offering is made manifest in our lives.

Hi SteveGC,
Thanks for your interest in this matter. I would appreciate if you would go to #265 where I explain the foundation of water to Randy . There’s seems to be a misunderstanding as to what water baptism does.I It is really only an outward sign of a person wanting to repent. Mat 3:8 John would not baptize the pharisees unless they would show some outward sign of repentance. Forgiveness for ALL sin is as you say, at the cross by the shed blood of Jesus.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hi Randy,

Ralph explains it better than I in #256 Thanks for asking

I had read this post previously, and I’ve just read it again. I asked a yes or no question, and I’ll assume that your answer is yes - children are assured of heaven - based on Ralphy’s explanation.

Therefore, may I assume from this that you agree that salvation can be lost? Yes or no.

Put another way, is it your view that that eternal security or “once saved, always saved” is a false doctrine? Yes or no.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hi Randy,
In Acts 2:38-39 Peter lumps together repentance, forginess, baptism and Holy Spirit in one statement which appears as though the water baptism forgives sins, But these people got saved by the message they heard not by water bap. 41 “Those accepted the message”. Acts 19:1-4 Paul differentiates water baptism vs Holy Spirit Baptism. let’s go to the foundation of water baptism. Luke 1:15 John was filled with the Holy Spirit from birth. Shouldn’t he know why he’s being sent? Mat.3:3 (A) “to prepare the way for the Lord. (B) 11 John says,” I baptize you with water for REPENTANCE "That’s clear isn’t it? (C) He goes on to say one is comming “He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit”

John’s baptism and Christian baptism are very different as your own argument indicates. No one (I hope) would argue that anyone baptized by John was baptized into Christ; John’s baptism was preparatory, but not a sacrament.

It is true that Jesus baptizes us in the Holy Spirit; however, the fact that He does so does not suggest that He does not also endorse - indeed command - water baptism.

No one is arguing the connection between water baptism and the movement of the Holy Spirit which is illustrated as early as Genesis when the Spirit was moving over the waters in the account of creation. This relationship appears again and again throughout the Bible.

However, what you have failed to interact with are the plain words of scripture telling us in no uncertain terms that baptism washes away sin. The conversion of Saul of Tarsus makes this clear.

After meeting Jesus on the road to Damascus, Saul was struck blind for three days, and he fasted during that time. Then Ananias came to see him. Ananias did not preach the gospel to him nor did he ask Saul to recite the sinner’s prayer nor accept Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior. Instead, Ananias said simply, "And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name’ " (Acts 9:16)

Interesting. You can bet that Paul already believed at this point. After three days of fasting, Paul didn’t want to grab a bite to eat before trotting down to the local synagogue for a symbolic baptism to testify to the inner transformation that had already occurred within. No! He got up, and got baptized in order to have his sins washed away. Luke, the travelling companion of Paul, obviously captures Paul’s theology in this passage. Baptism washes away sin.

But maybe you’re right. Maybe Paul, the Ethiopian eunuch, and the Philippian Jailer blew it. They all missed a great chance to witness to Jesus. Well, here…let’s review one passage first:
Acts 16:25-34
25About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them. 26Suddenly there was such a violent earthquake that the foundations of the prison were shaken. At once all the prison doors flew open, and everybody’s chains came loose. 27The jailer woke up, and when he saw the prison doors open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself because he thought the prisoners had escaped. 28But Paul shouted, “Don’t harm yourself! We are all here!”
29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole family.
As the scriptures clearly indicate, the Philippian jailer and the adult members of his household who were old enough to accept Jesus as their personal Lord and savior were already saved by their faith alone. (Regrettfully, Luke was sloppy in his recounting of this incident and was not more careful to avoid giving the impression that minors had been baptized, also. I have read that into the passage to make this theology more obvious for the benefit of my Evangelical brothers.)

Getting baptized “immediately”, “at that hour of the night”, that is, “about midnight”, was a missed opportunity. The jailer should have waited a few weeks or until the next meeting of the local assembly when he could have been baptized in front of the entire congregation as a symbol of his salvation. This ceremony would have been more edifying for those who were already members of the Church.

I mean, why the rush? There was no time to witness to his friends with the exact date that he “got saved” or to invite them to attend the ceremony, no time to have his name printed in the bulletin, no party afterward…just a quick slam-dunk and it was over.

This whole, distasteful episode is at odds with how things would be done in the typical Bible church today. Moreover, the conversion of such an important official as the administrator of the local correctional facility would be quite a feather in the cap of any modern evangelist and a springboard to other ministry work in the region…what was Paul thinking?

Maybe he was thinking of his own conversion and how important it is to have one’s sins washed away in the waters of baptism.

 

[twb1621]

Hi Randy,
In Acts 2:38-39 Peter lumps together repentance, forginess, baptism and Holy Spirit in one statement which appears as though the water baptism forgives sins, But these people got saved by the message they heard not by water bap. 41 “Those accepted the message”. Acts 19:1-4 Paul differentiates water baptism vs Holy Spirit Baptism. let’s go to the foundation of water baptism. Luke 1:15 John was filled with the Holy Spirit from birth. Shouldn’t he know why he’s being sent? Mat.3:3 (A) “to prepare the way for the Lord. (B) 11 John says,” I baptize you with water for REPENTANCE "That’s clear isn’t it? (C) He goes on to say one is comming “He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit” That’s exactly what took place in Acts 19 and Acts 8:12 People believed the gospel that Phillip preached and were baptized. In vs.16 "Because the Holy Spirit had NOT YET come upon any of them etc. vs 17 Then later, Peter and John came and placed their hands (prayed) on them and they (NOW) received the Holy Spirit. (emphasis added)

Note that I didn’t say you did not have any of the grace of the Holy Spirit, but you can not deny Peter’s very instructions to all which are in themselves explicit. Do not stop short thinking you have all when you are clearly informed of what all truely is…

Ephesians CH 4; 1 I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love, 3 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: 4 **one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; ****5 ****one Lord, one faith, one baptism; ****6 **one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore, it says: “He ascended on high and took prisoners captive; he gave gifts to men.” 9 What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended into the lower (regions) of the earth? 10 The one who descended is also the one who ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things. 11 **And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, ****12 ****to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, ****13 ****until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ, **14 so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming. 15 Rather, **living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head, Christ, ****16 ****from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, with the proper functioning of each part, brings about the body’s growth and builds itself up in love. **

Ephesians CH 1; 18 May the eyes of (your) hearts be enlightened, that you may know what is the hope that belongs to his call, what are the riches of glory in his inheritance among the holy ones, 19 and what is the surpassing greatness of his power for us who believe, in accord with the exercise of his great might, 20 which he worked in Christ, raising him from the dead and seating him at his right hand in the heavens, 21 far above every principality, authority, power, and dominion, and every name that is named not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things beneath his feet **and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way. **