How are we saved?

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Getting baptized “immediately”, “at that hour of the night”, that is, “about midnight”, was a missed opportunity. The jailer should have waited a few weeks or until the next meeting of the local assembly when he could have been baptized in front of the entire congregation as a symbol of his salvation. This ceremony would have been more edifying for those who were already members of the Church.

I mean, why the rush? There was no time to witness to his friends with the exact date that he “got saved” or to invite them to attend the ceremony, no time to have his name printed in the bulletin, no party afterward…just a quick slam-dunk and it was over.

This whole, distasteful episode is at odds with how things would be done in the typical Bible church today. Moreover, the conversion of such an important official as the administrator of the local correctional facility would be quite a feather in the cap of any modern evangelist and a springboard to other ministry work in the region…what was Paul thinking? 🤷

Maybe he was thinking of his own conversion and how important it is to have one’s sins washed away in the waters of baptism. 👍
There are no churches Catholic or Protestant doing it that way. Why aren’t infants baptized at birth? Why wait? Did the jailer understand all the Church teaches before being baptized or was his faith in Jesus sufficient?
 
If I can
Bless your heart twb1621, for taking time to write all of the above. Rather than to respond directly to what you wrote, please allow me the liberty to do it another way. Acts 10:19, the Holy Spirit (H.S.) said to Peter"Go", Acts 11:28 Agabus predicted by the H.S., Acts 13:2 the H.S.directed Paul and Barnabus, Acts 5:3 lied to the H.S. how can be you can’t see a spirit? Isa 40:13 "Who can advise the Spirit–or be his teacher or give him counsel? Acts 3:39 H.S. is a “Him”, When I got saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit, that person (Him) now dwells in me. One part of the Trinity all equal to each other. like water,ice and steam, same substance 3 diferent forms. So I’m Free! The Holy Spirit, teaches, directs, guides, protects,ect.ect. me.
For one to become Baptized in the Holy Spirit and believe that to be the entirety of the Gifts Jesus offered us or the only responsibility we have in our side of the covenant with our savior is misinformed and misguided and to the benefit only of the prince of this world who is the father of deceit and who certainly would not want you to seek the full graces Christ offers us.
Consider it this way. A person who has never seen but longs to experience the vastness of the ocean shore travels from Oklahoma to South Carolina to experience it’s grandeur. Once in hearing range of the crashing waves from the opposite side of a high sandbank, he stops, thinking the distance he traveled is sufficient and the experience of hearing it in it’s powerful and awesome thunder is the soul reward, yet he never experiences its full majesty. You haven’t reached the other side of the sandbank to experience ALL the majesty and Grace offered my pilgrim brother. You’re not accepting the sacramental gifts (sacraments are sensible signs, instituted by Jesus Christ, by which invisible grace and inward sanctification are communicated to the soul) that strengthen and bring one closer into a relationship with God through the graces Jesus offers.
I see the way you refer to Biblical text but you can not take one sentence from a verse hear and there to make it seem to follow what you believe. The verses have references, descriptions, instructions and so forth that must be considered in determining and interpreting the meanings. The verses presented here are very clear in the full body of there text and there is no room for doubt what is specifically said.

Remember this is Peter giving these instructions as the assigned authority over the establishment of the one Church founded by Jesus Himself. “I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received,”

To deny there is but one body as spoken, which is in fact the Church (body) of Christ (the Head) with the hierarchy “…**And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, **13 until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ,” also as established and to deny the necessity of continuing and growing as a part of that Church, is to deny the teachings and authority clearly proclaimed.

4 “…one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”

 
To deny there is but one body as spoken, which is in fact the Church (body) of Christ (the Head) with the hierarchy “…**And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, **13 until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ,” also as established and to deny the necessity of continuing and growing as a part of that Church, is to deny the teachings and authority clearly proclaimed.

4 “…one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”

Here is a recent story about Protestant Pentecostals ministering to Catholics. Would you say they are not one body?
ncronline.org/news/vatican/condemned-pope-witchcraft-reality-africa
Condemned by pope, witchcraft a reality in Africa
African converts often keep one foot in traditional spirituality
Mar. 21, 2009
By JOHN ALLEN JR., NCR Staff

In Angola yesterday, Benedict XVI stressed social issues readily familiar to Western audiences, such as poverty, war, and human rights. Today, however, the pope turned to another burning concern across much of Africa, albeit one that can seem exotic to foreign ears: Witchcraft.
Many Africans, the pope said, “are living in fear of spirits, of malign and threatening powers. In their bewilderment, they end up even condemning street children and the elderly as alleged sorcerers.”
Benedict called upon Catholics to “to proclaim that Christ has triumphed over death and all those occult powers.”
Even after converting to Christianity, many Africans keep one foot in this cluster of beliefs and practices rooted in traditional African spirituality.
In February 2007, the Catholic University of East Africa in Nairobi, Kenya, held a three-day symposium on witchcraft. Experts warned that witchcraft is “destroying” the Catholic Church in Africa, in part because skeptical, Western-educated clergy don’t take the beliefs behind it seriously.
“It is important for the Church to understand the fears of the people, and not to attribute them to superstition,” said Michael Katola, a lecturer in pastoral theology. “Witchcraft is a reality; it is not a superstition. Many communities know these powers exist.”
Katola warned that inadequate pastoral responses are driving some Africans into Pentecostalism.
“Many of our Christians seek deliverance, healing and exorcism from other denominations because priests do not realize they have redemptive powers,” he said. “If we don’t believe in the existence of witchcraft as Satanism, then we cannot deal with it.”
Sr. Bibiana Munini Ngundo said that the Catholic Church has not paid sufficient attention to “integral healing,” leading people to put their trust in diviners and magicians. Fr. Clement Majawa of Malawi listed 14 categories of witchcraft practiced in Africa, and argued that the Church’s denial “only escalates the problem.”
“Since Christ in the gospels encountered the devil, it is proper for Christians to accept the reality of witchcraft,” Majawa said.
In his remarks today, Benedict XVI alluded to one reason why the church has sometimes been reluctant to challenge witchcraft: an exaggerated “live and let live” spirit of tolerance.
“Someone may object: ‘Why not leave them in peace? They have their truth, and we have ours,’” the pope said.
In the end, Benedict said, such timidity does no one any favors.
“If we are convinced that, without Christ, life lacks something, that something real – indeed, the most real thing of all – is missing, we must also be convinced that we do no injustice to anyone if we present Christ to them,” the pope said. “Indeed, we must do this. It is our duty to offer everyone this possibility of attaining eternal life.”
 
Hi SteveGC,
Thanks for your interest in this matter. I would appreciate if you would go to #265 where I explain the foundation of water to Randy . There’s seems to be a misunderstanding as to what water baptism does.I It is really only an outward sign of a person wanting to repent. Mat 3:8 John would not baptize the pharisees unless they would show some outward sign of repentance. Forgiveness for ALL sin is as you say, at the cross by the shed blood of Jesus.
And thank you for your interest, too. I think the only misunderstanding is yours, as water baptism is not merely a sign. It has always been efficacious for salvation, as has lifelong repentance, faith, obedience. The problem is that you think there must only be one requirement for our salvation, confusing it with the ONE SOURCE of our salvation, which is actually GRACE first and foremost, made possible by the atoning Passion of our Lord. IOW, there is but ONE source of our salvation (the free gift of grace), but MANY requirements for us to cooperate and accept it; and ultimately receive it. Baptism is one of these many…and it is not optional, nor merely symbolic. “Baptism now saves you” is not merely in Scripture to take up space on the page.

God Bless
 
And thank you for your interest, too. I think the only misunderstanding is yours, as water baptism is not merely a sign. It has always been efficacious for salvation, as has lifelong repentance, faith, obedience. The problem is that you think there must only be one requirement for our salvation, confusing it with the ONE SOURCE of our salvation, which is actually GRACE first and foremost, made possible by the atoning Passion of our Lord. IOW, there is but ONE source of our salvation (the free gift of grace), but MANY requirements for us to cooperate and accept it; and ultimately receive it. Baptism is one of these many…and it is not optional, nor merely symbolic. “Baptism now saves you” is not merely in Scripture to take up space on the page.

God Bless
Do you think the thief on the cross was baptised? Ralph
 
Peter states that Baptism saves us. Baptism applies the merits of Jesus’ Blood Sacrifice on the cross to our souls since He did not desire to have us bathed in His literal Blood in order for us to be saved.

1 Peter 3:21 “There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”

This is not a bath or shower like we take every day in order to clean sweat and dirt from our bodies, but is instead baptismal water which cleanses our souls for our spiritual regeneration (which gives us a good conscience toward God). (Titus 3:5)

Baptism is the washing of water and the word (Ephesians 5:26) and it sanctifies us. (Matthew 28:19) We are made disciples of Christ through baptism. The baptizer calls on the name of the Lord as he pours water on/immerses the person being baptized so that his sins will be forgiven. (Romans 10:12-13, Mark 16:16)

1 Corinthians 6:11 “And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” This is describing baptism and what it does for us.

We are born again through water baptism in the names of God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). (Matthew 28:19)

John 3:3-5 “Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you,** unless one is born again**, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” This is describing baptism.

Water and the Spirit of God makes us “born again.” It applies the merits of Jesus’ Sacrifice on the Cross to our souls in order to make us sons of God. (Romans 8:14)

All of these Scriptures refer to water baptism and how it saves us. We receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptized. We also receive the Holy Spirit in the laying on of hands which we call Confirmation since this outpouring of the Holy Spirit (fire) confirms us in the faith and gives us more graces in order to help us live good Christian lives. (Acts 1:4-5, Acts 2)

Acts 22:16 “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

Baptism washes away our sins! Baptism sanctifies us. Baptism makes us disciples of Christ. Baptism makes us born again. Baptism saves us. Baptism makes us sons of God. Baptism regenerates us spiritually. Baptism justifies us. Baptism is a great gift from God!!!

SHW
Thank you SHW for your interest, Please allow me to reponse to your understanding, as well as some others too, of John 3:5. For the rest of your comments, please see what I wrote to Randy #265. JH 3:5 “born of water and Spirit” Jesus differentiates between our natural birth by flesh (* largest human organ which is composed of 70% water) and man born of spirit. The next verse clarifies it," what is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit." The water could also mean water of the womb. The born of water does NOT mean water baptism otherwise the following verse is irrelevant… Rev.17:15. “The oceans,lakes and rivers (water) that the woman is sitting on represents masses of people”. (emphasis added) I hope this helps you. *smartskincare.com/skinbiology/structure.html
 
Thanks Ralphy your right on target. PTL Also see what I wrote SHW #278 concerning John 3:5 and check out the url.
Hello Ralphy and Ed,

Where there is a desire to be baptized, you are baptized if circumstances, beyond your control, prevent the actual baptism. For example, you believe and are scheduled to be baptized in a few days, but you die prior to having the opportunity to actually be baptized, is the same as actually being baptized.

The thief believed and we assume, he would have been baptized if he could have or, he had a desire to be fully baptized by his confession to the Lord.
 
For one to become Baptized in the Holy Spirit and believe that to be the entirety of the Gifts Jesus offered us or the only responsibility we have in our side of the covenant with our savior is misinformed and misguided and to the benefit only of the prince of this world who is the father of deceit and who certainly would not want you to seek the full graces Christ offers us.
Consider it this way. A person who has never seen but longs to experience the vastness of the ocean shore travels from Oklahoma to South Carolina to experience it’s grandeur. Once in hearing range of the crashing waves from the opposite side of a high sandbank, he stops, thinking the distance he traveled is sufficient and the experience of hearing it in it’s powerful and awesome thunder is the soul reward, yet he never experiences its full majesty. You haven’t reached the other side of the sandbank to experience ALL the majesty and Grace offered my pilgrim brother. You’re not accepting the sacramental gifts (sacraments are sensible signs, instituted by Jesus Christ, by which invisible grace and inward sanctification are communicated to the soul) that strengthen and bring one closer into a relationship with God through the graces Jesus offers.
I see the way you refer to Biblical text but you can not take one sentence from a verse hear and there to make it seem to follow what you believe. The verses have references, descriptions, instructions and so forth that must be considered in determining and interpreting the meanings. The verses presented here are very clear in the full body of there text and there is no room for doubt what is specifically said.

Remember this is Peter giving these instructions as the assigned authority over the establishment of the one Church founded by Jesus Himself. “I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received,”

To deny there is but one body as spoken, which is in fact the Church (body) of Christ (the Head) with the hierarchy “…**And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, **13 until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ,” also as established and to deny the necessity of continuing and growing as a part of that Church, is to deny the teachings and authority clearly proclaimed.

4 “…one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”

Thank you twb 1621 for your response. I beg of your forgiveness if I’m wrong but you seem to imply that just because my only source is the Bible that I’m missing out on something more that God can offer me. 1Cor 2:16 " ----But strange as it seems, we Christians actually do have within us a portion of the very thoughts and mind of Christ." Are you saying that can be trumped ??? You say" sacraments are sensible signs, instituted by Jesus Christ" I find two in the Bible. If there are more they are not in the Bible, yet one would think that that would be the first and best place to have listed them wouldn’t you?.
 
Hello Ralphy and Ed,

Where there is a desire to be baptized, you are baptized if circumstances, beyond your control, prevent the actual baptism. For example, you believe and are scheduled to be baptized in a few days, but you die prior to having the opportunity to actually be baptized, is the same as actually being baptized.

The thief believed and we assume, he would have been baptized if he could have or, he had a desire to be fully baptized by his confession to the Lord.
Thank you Prodical Son 1 for your interest. Think! Since water baptism is only our outward sign of showing repentance, the thief did that, his belief in Jesus forgave his sins. Baptism in his case is irrelevant. That Scripture shows us that baptism has nothing to do with the forgivness of sins. Why was Jesus baptized? NOT to have sins forgiven, but to set an example to us to repent and start a new life.
 
And thank you for your interest, too. I think the only misunderstanding is yours, as water baptism is not merely a sign. It has always been efficacious for salvation, as has lifelong repentance, faith, obedience. The problem is that you think there must only be one requirement for our salvation, confusing it with the ONE SOURCE of our salvation, which is actually GRACE first and foremost, made possible by the atoning Passion of our Lord. IOW, there is but ONE source of our salvation (the free gift of grace), but MANY requirements for us to cooperate and accept it; and ultimately receive it. Baptism is one of these many…and it is not optional, nor merely symbolic. “Baptism now saves you” is not merely in Scripture to take up space on the page.

God Bless
Thank you for your reply. You say, :It has always been efficacious for salvation" You may have been taught that, but I’m trying to show you that’s not Biblical. We are saved by Grace and not by additional requirements which then nulifies grace Rom 11: 6 'And if by grace,then it is no longer by works; (requirments as you say) if it were, grace would no longer be grace." also Eph. 2:8-9 Titus 3:5 There were many things that I was taught and believed ,as Paul says in Phil 3:7-8 “rubbish” One must decide to follow God’s Word or man’s teachings which many times contradicts God’s Word. John ought to know best why he was sent by God Mat 3:11 “I baptize you with water for REPENTANCE.” God Bless you also Steve.
 
Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

Col 2:12 *having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
*
Gal 3: 27 *For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. *

1 Pet 3:21-22* who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you–not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience–through )the resurrection of Jesus Christ, *

Sorry, none of these even begins to imply a symbolic act. Isn’t it interesting that something “supposedly” symbolic is not referenced with any supporting words or phrases which allude to that symbolism? When something is symbolic, one typically finds words such as “like” or “as a sign of” or “represents” or “shows evidence of”. We don’t find such words or phrases anywhere in Scripture where baptism is referenced. On the contrary, where we find references of baptism, we find action words, and efficacious phrases (now saves you, buried with Christ, into His death, clothes you). These are NOT symbols, folks. These are definitive actions which actually occur in the soul of a person receiving it. As for the thief, there are a number of plausible explanations. Christ’s atoning death (which baptism is intrinsically linked to) had not yet occurred at that moment…and/or the thief desired it but was physically unable…but the most reasonable is that God is not bound by the sacraments, we are. If He, knowing the heart of a man about to die, chooses to save him without the established, normative ritual He Himself taught, that is His providence and His will be done.

Baptism is required because it is part of the salvation equation. Not the sole requirement, but one of many.
 
Thank you for your reply. You say, :It has always been efficacious for salvation" You may have been taught that, but I’m trying to show you that’s not Biblical. We are saved by Grace and not by additional requirements which then nulifies grace Rom 11: 6 'And if by grace,then it is no longer by works; (requirments as you say) if it were, grace would no longer be grace." also Eph. 2:8-9 Titus 3:5 There were many things that I was taught and believed ,as Paul says in Phil 3:7-8 “rubbish” One must decide to follow God’s Word or man’s teachings which many times contradicts God’s Word. John ought to know best why he was sent by God Mat 3:11 “I baptize you with water for REPENTANCE.” God Bless you also Steve.
And likewise, this is what YOU have been taught…and it is not biblical. We are indeed saved by Grace alone. What does this Grace actually do, Ed? I’ll tell you what it does. It opens a door that was once shut. But we are not shoved through that door. Even you know that we have to respond to it, walk to it, and enter it. You think Catholics nullify Grace? Well, under your theology, you also nullify grace, by adding faith to it. And I know you don’t think faith is not critical to your salvation. Neither do I. The point is, there is a critical distinction to be made. THE SOURCE and THE EFFECT of salvation.

Here’s the deal…we agree on the source (Grace of God - through the Passion). We disagree on the EFFECT. You think it’s by faith, and claim that you don’t add to Grace, but you do. And guess what? You’re SUPPOSED to. We all are. Because GOD does. But we’re not adding to the SOURCE, Ed. That’s apostasy, heresy. Some believe that Catholics add “works” (defined as lifelong obedience to His Word) to the SOURCE. Wrong. You see, God Himself has instituted the EFFECT. And it just so happens that it is not a singular act (faith). It is all over Scripture that it is not by faith alone that salvation is effected for us. It is a few things, and we must comply with all of them. I use the acronym BFOR, sounding intentionally like “before”, because these are things we must do for all our lives (except one baptism) in order for us to have salvation EFFECTED for us, through the ONE SOURCE of God’s Grace.

B…baptism
F…faith
O…obedience
R…repentance

And so, Grace opens the door (praise be to God). And we must walk through it BFOR we are saved.

God Bless
 
B…baptism
F…faith
O…obedience
R…repentance

And so, Grace opens the door (praise be to God). And we must walk through it BFOR we are saved.
I like your “acronym” and “use” of it! 👍

I’ve enjoyed the posts by “all” of you on this thread. Thanks.

Pax,
SHW
 
Baptism is required because it is part of the salvation equation. Not the sole requirement, but one of many.
Hi SteveGC,

Maybe baptism isn’t the water portion for salvation, it is receiving the Holy Spirit. Baptism has been commonly referred to as the full process of the water application and Spiritual reception. But, notice in these verses that water is equated with repentance. Baptism is equated with the receiving Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3

11"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry.* He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
*

Acts 2

38Peter replied, "Repent **and **be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 3
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is *born of water and the Spirit.
*
The baptisms that John preformed were full immersion baptisms. In this type of baptism, going under water is “dying to self” aka repentance, coming out of the water is being born again, new, in Christ. ( John 3:7)

Take for example, when Jesus asked John to baptize Him. John was hesitant, because Jesus certainly had nothing to repent of. But Jesus said that it was necessary to fulfill all righteousness. Seems kind of curious unless the example of the Holy Spirit landing on Him was to demonstrate the new life by Spiritual baptism. Submitted for your consideration and perspective.

In Christ Jesus,

m33
 
Thank you Prodical Son 1 for your interest. Think! Since water baptism is only our outward sign of showing repentance, the thief did that, his belief in Jesus forgave his sins. Baptism in his case is irrelevant. That Scripture shows us that baptism has nothing to do with the forgivness of sins. Why was Jesus baptized? NOT to have sins forgiven, but to set an example to us to repent and start a new life.
Hey Ed,

While I can understand how you arrive at your understanding, I cannot forget Jesus’ words where I gain my understanding.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Then I think on the story of the Ethiopian eunuch, who believed and confessed his belief to the Apostle Philip.

Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came to a certain water. And the eunuch said: See, here is water: What doth hinder me from being baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said: If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answering, said: I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still. And they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch. And he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord took away Philip: and the eunuch saw him no more. And he went on his way rejoicing.


It seems that baptism was important to the eunuch after hearing Jesus preached to him and once he said he believed, Philip baptized him.

If I am repeating an argument already discussed, please forgive me. I was only responding to why I believe the thief was not required to be born again of water.
 
Hi again m33.

Yes, indeed. Baptism is all about the receipt of Grace, through the Holy Spirit. This is Catholic teaching. This Grace is efficacious for many reasons, one of which is the forgiveness of sins (both original sins and personal sins up to that point in life). It brings us into sonship with The Father, empowers us for righteousness, strengthens virtues, etc.

All the more reason it is necessary and not merely representative. Water does symbolize washing, but it does not merely ‘symbolize’ our faith, it empowers it.

From the CCC:

*1265 Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte “a new creature,” an adopted son of God, who has become a “partaker of the divine nature,” member of Christ and co-heir with him, and a temple of the Holy Spirit.71

1266 The Most Holy Trinity gives the baptized sanctifying grace, the grace of justification:
  • enabling them to believe in God, to hope in him, and to love him through the theological virtues;
  • giving them the power to live and act under the prompting of the Holy Spirit through the gifts of the Holy Spirit;
  • allowing them to grow in goodness through the moral virtues.
    Thus the whole organism of the Christian’s supernatural life has its roots in Baptism. *
 
Hello Randy Carson, this is the first time I have spoken to you.

It looks like Ed doesn’t want to answer the questions you and I asked him earlier about whether a child who becomes a grownup can loose the salvation he says the child has by being a child. His comments seem contrived to spin his way out of an illogical, unbiblical circumstance. I can see why he dodges the question because he would have to change his position.

Anyway, this conversation with him pits his selective verses against the whole of the development of God’s revelation as well as salvation history. His exegesis is such that he guesses the meanings of texts and deny’s the understanding of Christ’s Church that has been going on for centuries. He introduces new concepts of his theology that he says are true that have not been held by Christs’s Church, and makes his understanding more important than those who Christ gave the authority to teach in His name.

He does not see the beginnings of baptism being in the old covenant pointing to the new. He does not understand the concept of sacrament that is perfected in the new covenant. This is a shame because he has a wonderful faith and could contribute much to the enlightenment of people in their faith if he understood the meaning of Christ’s Church.

mdcpensive1
 
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