How are we saved?

[tukfryer]

You’ve personally met 100s of Catholics who don’t know what is written in the Bible? Wow!

If you add on the Catholic’s you’'ve met that do know the Bible, that’s a lot. I’ve met a few fellow Catholics in my time but can’t really say that I’ve personally sat down and talked with 100s about faith/Scripture.

Do you know the whole Bible?

Many people will not claim church affiliation but do enjoy the topic. I met very few church going people in day to day life if they do go they dont admit to it. I like to keep informed on science its a good topic with atheist and building faith in fence sitters. I dont go around like some weirdo that straight out says I believe in Jesus what about you. But the Lord has gifted me with the ability to converse on topics that easily lead to theology.

I have read the bible. Do I know it? along with the HS it is a living thing, the Spirit teaching from it… I think their could be no end to fully understanding it. The word of God amazes me. It is spoken “written for me to read” but understanding and seeing how it interacts fully with the rest of the word is truly amazing. Their have been parts and interpretations I dont understand for long periods “years”. The Spirit just does not put what I read or hear in context, I dont simply accept or repeat what Im unsure of, so I listen, pray and read. Its amazing how when He reviles it, how suddenly, like a line of dominoes it falls in place. I could never simply follow / believe someone else exclusively, its a personal relationship. But I do listen to other teachers, people and the Spirit helps me sort it out in context of what He has taught me. You or some here will call me nothing, but in reality I am a culmination of the pieces of truth that I have found in many places. Baptist, Methodist, Cavalry Chapel, SDA, LDS, JW, Catholics, I read about non christian religions also. I cant begin to list all the radio denominations I have listened to.

My basic foundation came from my Mom a Methodist, Baptist. But when I got older I found the Spirit working and calling, but I had no knowledge. I prayed that if the Lord was going to do something in me He needed to do it soon I was getting tired of the hard life I had, I lost my family. I had left the state with 2 girls on a lark to go to Phoenix we ended up in Tucson as soon as we hit town Jackie befriended a member of the chosen few motor cycle gang so we were staying at their club house. One day I was sitting in a park that the homeless frequented just contemplating what I should do. A man with a pack walked up and started a conversation. He was clean well organized and knew just where he was going. He knew where work was and offered to show me how to ride the trains and make a living working as he did. That night we jumped a train for Flagstaff I got on first and I lost sight of him, we were riding a car carrier. I started climbing back thew a few cars looking for him but never found him. This train by then was doing like 90 MPH by now. I was a few days shy of 21 tired and now alone on a train screaming threw the desert. Thats the night I prayed that If your going to do something with me Lord please do it Im getting tired. I believed in Jesus that has never been a question from my earliest memory’s, I had no bible knowledge just Sunday school stories. In fact I believe the Spirit had been working for years, my earliest memory of its power was, I must have been 4 watching Red Skeleton and he said “and my God bless you” I felt the impact of those words.
I went to sleep in the back of a new ford ranchero, with a peace that the Lord was their. I woke up and the train was slowing and I got off and went to a gas station. I noticed all the cars had California plates. I had no idea where I was. I got a city map San Bernardino CA I was in Colton. I had the address of the Salvation Army and started walking up Mt Vernon and the first house I was walking past an old man was heading to his mail box …conversation …and I had a place to stay in exchange for yard work ect. Less than a week I had a job threw Man Power at 7up sorting bottles, the second day the plant manager ask if I would be interested in working the second shift sterilizing the bottling equipment the guy that helped out had quit. Thats where I met John a Spirit filled christian about 30 years old. He was a mountain climber, cave spelunker and had climbed Mt Araret alone before they closed access. I lived with John and for 3 years I did nothing but bible study go to church, my life has never been the same. I dont spend a lot of time in church with Christians that insulate themselves from the world, I go into the world and met the people that would never go or never go back into that hypocritical church. I’ll let you in on a little secret the blessings and work of the Lord is not in setting in a pew.

God Bless

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It is not my accusations per say. But rather the word of God as I and others testify it that convicts you. If you are lead by the Spirit He will bring all things to remembrance.

There’s a problem with how you and others testify. Specifically, there was only the Catholic Church until the Protestant reformation, that’s when new interpretations came about that Protestants began testifying a new gospel other than what was taught.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Yes, ProdicalSon1…(snipped to fit response)

Ed, try as you may, it doesn’t work. Peter told them, “…knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness.” What they had been taught was passed on through the Church. There was only the Catholic Church for 1500 years, then the Protestant reformation took place and men began interpreting scriptures for themselves. Then there were many interpretations and many denominations began. Now, who should a Catholic turn too? Should they hold to their steadfastness, or risk everything on a private interpretation? Which private interpretation is correct? Which interpretation comes from the unwise?

Protestants speak to Catholics as if they have all the answers, but their answers were conclusions based on private interpretations 1500 years later.

The Church hierarchy existed from the beginning and was setup by Christ. The Apostles kept this teaching with Apostolic succession and the imposition of hands.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some apostles, and some prophets, and other some evangelists, and other some pastors and doctors:

Where are the writings of all 12 Apostles? They had different assignments.

How could Paul interpret scriptures? He was of the hierarchy and he learned many things through oral tradition.

St. Paul also wrote about Jannes and Mambres, the two magicians for Pharoah. Remember, Moses’ staff, turned into a snake, ate their staffs turned into snakes. Jannes and Mambres are not written about anywhere in scriptures. The only way St. Paul could have known their names, was through oral tradition.

2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Mambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth, men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith.

St. Paul also wrote about the rock that followed the Israelites, during the Exodus led by Moses. The rock that followed them, is not written about anywhere else in scriptures.

1Co 10:4 And all drank the same spiritual drink: (And they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.)

Jesus rebuked several people for not knowing scriptures. That is an example of being rebuked by the Lord for misinterpretations.

You act as if a mother taught her son the Old Testament from writings she had. The Old Testament writings were kept in the Temple and synagogues. Women did not have full access to the areas the men had access too. He knew scriptures from his infancy, because they were read to them at the Temple and synagogues.

The Old Testament does give a very clear example of an official interpretation of scriptures being taught to the people.

Nehemiah 8

**1And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.

2And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.

3And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.

4And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.

5And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people) and when he opened it, all the people stood up:

6And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.

7Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.

8So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.**

So if the Old Testament needed an official interpretation, wouldn’t the New Testament need an official interpretation? Agree?

Look at Acts 8 and tell me, did the eunuch understand the writings of Isaiah he was reading? Not until Philip, of the hierarchy of the Church preached Jesus to him.

The canon of the New Testament was not defined in the first century. The writings of the New Testament were letters and epistles written over a period of time, around 60AD, and sent to individual Churches scattered all across Asia. Revelations is estimated to have been written around 100AD. All these letters had to be brought together at some point in time and among them were many other writings, some forgeries.

The men of Catholic Church prayerfully researched all the documents and defined a New Testament canon. Then the Church preserved the Bible until the 1500s. That’s when the Protestants took the Bible and began teaching themselves. That’s when many denominations began.

When scriptures tell Christians to hold fast to the traditions they learned, by word or epistle, and to avoid those dissensions, and to be of full accord and of one mind and judgment, they are telling us to hold to the first teachings and not the multiple teachings of Protestantism.

 

[SteveGC]

To my fellow Catholics.

Look, non-Catholics are going to tell you over and over things about Catholics not knowing the Bible, not exhibiting the “fruit of the Spirit”, not having a personal relationship with Christ.

Sometimes they’re right. But do you know why they can say that? Because “Catholic” is a household name. No other version of Christianity carries with it a term like Catholic, wherein people identify themselves as such, as opposed to simply the “Christian” title that all other Baptists, Episcopalians, Methodists, Church of Christ’ers, etc., use to describe their faith. “Catholic” has become a cultural term, not just a spiritual one. All the lukewarm and cafeteria and fallen away “Catholics” get lumped into the same title as the devout, faithful, obedient Catholics. We all use the same title. There is no such problem in the non-Catholic world. No other denomination gets attacked, because no lukewarm, cafeteria, or fallen away “Christian” goes around identifying himself to the world as “Baptist”, “Methodist”, Church of Christ", whatever. So, as a result, our entire Church (THE Church) gets attacked for being a false, man-made, legalistic religion largely because of all the uneducated, unmotivated or otherwise lackluster “Catholics” who are spotlighted in society because they use that “Catholic” label. If every Christian in the world, including Catholics, limited the description of themselves to just “Christian”, I guarantee you the playing field would be leveled, and we’d all start seeing just how many different denominations produce lackluster “Christians” with no personal relationship, who pick-and-choose their obedience, who “don’t know the Bible”.

And I’ll tell you something else. It’s not that Catholics don’t “know” the Bible. They just can’t, on the whole, regurgitate chapter and verse like Bible-only’s are trained to do. I know this firsthand. Bible-only communities emphasize scriptural memorization, and equate that with strong Christian faith. Nevermind that nearly the ENTIRE canon of Scripture is read in the Catholic Church every 3 years. Nevermind that the Catechism is one of the most elaborate and efficacious Bible study instruments on the planet. Nevermind that Catholics have a holistic exposure to the biblical narrative, and salvation history, as opposed to a non-contextual tunnel-vision of this verse or that verse. Nevermind any of that. If we can’t spew out a verse on-demand, we “don’t know the Bible”.

I’m happy to see a virtual place like CAF, wherein non-Catholics who are predisposed to the idea of the ‘lesser of the faith’ Catholics, encounter some of the strongest, most devout Christians in the world. You Catholics on here, on the whole, are truly a picture of The Church that She is proud of…authentic, full of faith, and True.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

To my fellow Catholics.

Look, non-Catholics are going to tell you over and over things about Catholics not knowing the Bible, not exhibiting the “fruit of the Spirit”, not having a personal relationship with Christ.

Sometimes they’re right. But do you know why they can say that? Because “Catholic” is a household name. No other version of Christianity carries with it a term like Catholic, wherein people identify themselves as such, as opposed to simply the “Christian” title that all other Baptists, Episcopalians, Methodists, Church of Christ’ers, etc., use to describe their faith. “Catholic” has become a cultural term, not just a spiritual one. All the lukewarm and cafeteria and fallen away “Catholics” get lumped into the same title as the devout, faithful, obedient Catholics. We all use the same title. There is no such problem in the non-Catholic world. No other denomination gets attacked, because no lukewarm, cafeteria, or fallen away “Christian” goes around identifying himself to the world as “Baptist”, “Methodist”, Church of Christ", whatever. So, as a result, our entire Church (THE Church) gets attacked for being a false, man-made, legalistic religion largely because of all the uneducated, unmotivated or otherwise lackluster “Catholics” who are spotlighted in society because they use that “Catholic” label. If every Christian in the world, including Catholics, limited the description of themselves to just “Christian”, I guarantee you the playing field would be leveled, and we’d all start seeing just how many different denominations produce lackluster “Christians” with no personal relationship, who pick-and-choose their obedience, who “don’t know the Bible”.

And I’ll tell you something else. It’s not that Catholics don’t “know” the Bible. They just can’t, on the whole, regurgitate chapter and verse like Bible-only’s are trained to do. I know this firsthand. Bible-only communities emphasize scriptural memorization, and equate that with strong Christian faith. Nevermind that nearly the ENTIRE canon of Scripture is read in the Catholic Church every 3 years. Nevermind that the Catechism is one of the most elaborate and efficacious Bible study instruments on the planet. Nevermind that Catholics have a holistic exposure to the biblical narrative, and salvation history, as opposed to a non-contextual tunnel-vision of this verse or that verse. Nevermind any of that. If we can’t spew out a verse on-demand, we “don’t know the Bible”.

I’m happy to see a virtual place like CAF, wherein non-Catholics who are predisposed to the idea of the ‘lesser of the faith’ Catholics, encounter some of the strongest, most devout Christians in the world. You Catholics on here, on the whole, are truly a picture of The Church that She is proud of…authentic, full of faith, and True.

I agree wholeheartedly Steve.

It never ceases to amaze me how Protestant throw scriptures at Catholics to insinuate Catholics are following another gospel, yet the Catholic Church and all her teachings existed from the beginning. The Catholic Church defined the canon of the New Testament and preserved the Bible for Protestants to take in the 1500s and begin interpreting for themselves. The original teachings only changed with the Protestant reformation. Another gospel is being preached to Catholics, yet the “preachers” cannot see that.

 

[mikeledes]

900 threads later…and you guys are still arguing about how we are saved…talking about spreading confusing…how about spreading a little love of the gospel.

this how you arer saved:

You are saved by grace thur faith

look it up!!!

Hey, not even Protestants agree on what that exactly means.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[ralphy]

Semantics! You’re playing word games. There was one Catholic Church, which is led by the bishop of Rome. That’s the Catholic Church that defined the canon of the New Testament and preserved the sacred scripture so that you have one in your hands. There was no “catholic” then and now. That’s an invention of Protestants to justify taking the scriptures and privately interpreting them, which is NOT in scriptures.

Whose fault is it that scriptures went in one of your ears and out the other?

That someone came to you and preached another gospel than the one you were taught? Is that what you’re saying?

Protestants want to decide for themselves, and there are plenty of different interpretations to decide by. That’s finding a Church to fit your lifestyle and not fitting your lifestyle to the Church. Obedience to God is His way, not the way of men who decide what areas they are willing to be obedient in.

What gets me is your attitude appears to be that your way is the only way and it doesn’t include Catholics. Since all you do is put Catholicism down, be honest and tell us what your purpose is here? Or would telling us the truth get you banned?

People have been banned befor, for telling the truth, so that does not bother me. My purpose in this forum, is try to instill some scripture into peoples lives, so that may see the truth, and the truth shall set them free. I have seven siblings, all of whom I pray for on a daily basis that may get into the Word of God and receive Him as their Lord and Savior befor its too late. This is my mandate from the Lord, to be a witness for Him with the gospel of salvation, to all that will listen. Ralph

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

People have ben banned befor, for telling the truth, so that does not bother me. My purpose in this forum, is try to instill some scripture into peoples lives, so that may see the truth, and the truth shall set them free. I have seven siblings, all of whom I pray for on a daily basis that may get into the Word of God and receive Him as their Lord and Savior befor its too late. This is my mandate from the Lord, to be a witness for Him with the gospel of salvation, to all that will listen. Ralph

Have you not noticed that while you’re trying to instill a “few” scriptures into Catholic’s lives, Catholics here have responded with many more scriptures?

Catholics believe Christ was the only Son of God. Catholics believe Christ died for the sins of all. Now how are you going to correct that?

See Ralphy, the Catholic doctrines are the oldest doctrines in Christianity. The men of the Catholic Church prayerfully researched all the writings of the time and defined the canon of the New Testament. This process could not have been accomplished without the hierarchy interpreting many of the writings. The Catholic Church preserved the Bible through the ages, so that Protestants could take the Bible and begin interpreting it for themselves starting in the early 1500s. Protestants are the ones teaching a different gospel. Protestants are the dissenting voices. Protestants are the ones who are not of a full accord and of one mind and judgement, as scriptures tell us we should be.

The Bible tells us plainly when Christ spoke to the Apostles directly and when He spoke to the multitudes. Protestants read everything as if it’s written only to them, therefore they take things taught only to the Apostles as “mandates” from the Lord and assume authority for themselves.

You blame the Church for your religious upbringing, yet you say scriptures read went in one ear and out the other. Whose fault was that?

While you may have memorized more of the Bible than Catholics, you were so busy memorizing that you missed the context of alot of what was written. As I said, Catholics have responded with multiple scriptures to the single verses being provided by Protestants. That shows reading scriptures with scriptures.

A portion of a verse does not give context, neither does a single verse. To read in context, one has to read the passage, the chapter, the book, the Testament and read it against the other Testament to receive the real context. To respond in this context takes time and many times it’s not the full context because a single post will not hold the fulness of the context.

Many of your posts have not been instilling scriptures as it has been a direct assault on the Catholic Church. This gives an appearance of an axe to grind.

You speak to Catholics as if they’re not Christians following the Gospel. They are Christians following the first Gospel. Protestants changed that Gospel, starting in the 1500s, which is a different Gospel than what was taught. Show me any writings from any Christians, you’re willing to affliate yourself with, prior to the 1500s.

 

[paul_c]

I agree wholeheartedly Steve.

It never ceases to amaze me how Protestant throw scriptures at Catholics to insinuate Catholics are following another gospel, yet the Catholic Church and all her teachings existed from the beginning. The Catholic Church defined the canon of the New Testament and preserved the Bible for Protestants to take in the 1500s and begin interpreting for themselves. The original teachings only changed with the Protestant reformation. Another gospel is being preached to Catholics, yet the “preachers” cannot see that.

Steve,

There are a lot of Catholics. 1.15B according to this website: cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/index.htm

In a group this size, (17% of the world’s population), you get all types, from the very devout to the Catholic in name only. My parish has 12000 members, of which 4000 go to mass on a given weekend and 200 go to daily mass If you ask the 8000 who are not regular mass attendees, I would guess that you would find many that don’t know that much about their faith, (otherwise, they would be in mass). However, I would pit those 200 daily mass goers against anyone in knowing their faith and the bible. Those are the kind of people that respond in forums like this. And I know that there are many like that in any parish in the country. I believe the number of highly devoted Catholics is rising. In my parish, daily mass attendance has been growing noticeably over the last 5 years. We sent 4 men to the seminary this year. If you look world wide, the number of priestly ordinations is up by over 50% from 1980 to 2005. There is great cause for optimism in that. That, and of course, the fact that Jesus told us the chruch would survive to the end of the age. How many Protestant churches have 200 people who are compelled to go to church every day purely out of love for God?

For those Protestants who have been on this thread for the last 900 posts, please stay at it. By your questions, you help us to educate those who are lurking in the background. And if you allow yourselves to listen to our answers and remember this is a search for the truth and not a debate competition, you too will find your self “swimming the Tiber” as have countless people before you. If you don’t believe this, look at how many Catholics on this blog have the inscription, Swam the Tiber in XXXX - they are all converts to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[SteveGC]

People have been banned befor, for telling the truth, so that does not bother me. My purpose in this forum, is try to instill some scripture into peoples lives, so that may see the truth, and the truth shall set them free. I have seven siblings, all of whom I pray for on a daily basis that may get into the Word of God and receive Him as their Lord and Savior befor its too late. This is my mandate from the Lord, to be a witness for Him with the gospel of salvation, to all that will listen. Ralph

You heart’s in the right place, Ralph. But everything else is lagging behind.

Let me ask you something. If you’re following your mandate, why aren’t you rooting yourself in atheist forums, or agnostic threads on this forum, and preaching the gospel there?

Why are you attempting to “instill some scripture” to Catholics on clearly Catholic-based threads? How many non-Christians threads, with non-Christian topics, have you participated in, compared to the ones where Catholicism is the main topic?

In other words, you’re fighting a good fight, ralph…but you’ve got the wrong audience. We’re way ahead o’ ya. We really appreciate your scriptural insertions, but they do very little for devout Catholics that are extremely well aware of Scripture, and clearly use it eloquently and appropriately to transmit the gospel message to those here that seek answers to the faith. I’m really not even speaking of myself, for I don’t rank myself up with those on many of these threads who do so well with explaining Christian doctrine in the light of Sacred Scripture. But, rest assured that the vast majority of Catholics you encounter at CAF are already well aware of the teachings of Christ, and lead their lives in harmony with those teachings.

Hey, I’ll see you over on the atheist boards, and let’s go spread the gospel there - where it’s needed.

 

[paul_c]

People have been banned befor, for telling the truth, so that does not bother me. My purpose in this forum, is try to instill some scripture into peoples lives, so that may see the truth, and the truth shall set them free. I have seven siblings, all of whom I pray for on a daily basis that may get into the Word of God and receive Him as their Lord and Savior befor its too late. This is my mandate from the Lord, to be a witness for Him with the gospel of salvation, to all that will listen. Ralph

Ralph, you assume we don’t have scripture in our lives. I for one, read 5 chapters daily - one from the OT history , one from Psalms, one from the OT prophetic or wisdom books, one from the gospels and one from the epistles., plus whatever more I need for answering questions on this forum plus the readings I get at mass each day and the interpretations of those readings by one of our priests in his homily. I am not alone among Catholics in doing this. And I agree that the truth will set you free. I’ll bet those 7 siblings who stayed true to the Catholic Church pray for you as well, hoping that you will truly see the truth and come back home. And yes, the church is here to help all who will listen to reach heaven. That is its one purpose. And scripture is clear that Jesus set up the church for that purpose. Why do you feel you need to go it alone?

 

[EdOsiecki]

Salvation is achieved through human effort on this earth. We must work to save ourselves from our own destruction here on earth. That said, if you’re talking about how we make it to Heaven, I personally believe in universalism and that pretty much everyone will go to Heaven. Whether or not the evil will go to a place of punishment or purification, I do not know.

Hi Sal(name removed by moderator)eppa, This is Ed, I very respectfully disagree with what you state above because all creation is alienated from God because of SIN. Jesus, who is God, came down from heaven to solve that problem. He purchased or redeemed us by His Holy unspoted BLOOD when He was crucified on the cross, then was buried, was resurrected, and now resides in heaven. That’s the gospel as He states in Mark 1615-16 “Go into all the world and preach the good news (gospel) to all creation. v16 Whoever “believes” and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not “believe” will be condemned”. The key word here is “believe” Jesus died for the whole world but only for those who “believe” that He atoned for their SINS by His BLOOD. Jesus also states, those who not “believe” will be condemned. We are water baptized for repentance and to identify with Christ, dying to our old way of life, buried (submerged in water) , then rising to our new life. Please note, I’m using simple plain English easy to understand language. See my post on #922 Thanks Ed.

 

[EdOsiecki]

You heart’s in the right place, Ralph. But everything else is lagging behind.

Let me ask you something. If you’re following your mandate, why aren’t you rooting yourself in atheist forums, or agnostic threads on this forum, and preaching the gospel there?

Why are you attempting to “instill some scripture” to Catholics on clearly Catholic-based threads? How many non-Christians threads, with non-Christian topics, have you participated in, compared to the ones where Catholicism is the main topic?

In other words, you’re fighting a good fight, ralph…but you’ve got the wrong audience. We’re way ahead o’ ya. We really appreciate your scriptural insertions, but they do very little for devout Catholics that are extremely well aware of Scripture, and clearly use it eloquently and appropriately to transmit the gospel message to those here that seek answers to the faith. I’m really not even speaking of myself, for I don’t rank myself up with those on many of these threads who do so well with explaining Christian doctrine in the light of Sacred Scripture. But, rest assured that the vast majority of Catholics you encounter at CAF are already well aware of the teachings of Christ, and lead their lives in harmony with those teachings.

Hey, I’ll see you over on the atheist boards, and let’s go spread the gospel there - where it’s needed.

Hi SteveGC, It’s me again ED, On post # 1 JJ59 a confused Catholic asked how to be saved, no one answered JJ59’s question, I did three times 214, 710, 922 doesn’t any one of the regular members care to answer? Also Post 921 SaltnPeppa thinks works are the way to salvation. I don’t think you agree with that? I gave SaltnPeppa my answer. Why aren’t the regular members answering that post? Isn’t it our Christian duty to save sinners from going to hell? There seems to be an obsession to squelch Ralph. Why? No offense meant, just asking. Ed

 

[paul_c]

Hi SteveGC, It’s me again ED, On post # 1 JJ59 a confused Catholic asked how to be saved, no one answered JJ59’s question, I did three times 214, 710, 922 doesn’t any one of the regular members care to answer? Also Post 921 SaltnPeppa thinks works are the way to salvation. I don’t think you agree with that? I gave SaltnPeppa my answer. Why aren’t the regular members answering that post? Isn’t it our Christian duty to save sinners from going to hell? There seems to be an obsession to squelch Ralph. Why? No offense meant, just asking. Ed

Ed, I have given the catholic answer on how to be saved several times in this thread. Somehow you never notice that . I will give it again in response to saltnpeppa. Please read it this time…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Hi SteveGC, It’s me again ED, On post # 1 JJ59 a confused Catholic asked how to be saved, no one answered JJ59’s question, I did three times 214, 710, 922 doesn’t any one of the regular members care to answer? Also Post 921 SaltnPeppa thinks works are the way to salvation. I don’t think you agree with that? I gave SaltnPeppa my answer. Why aren’t the regular members answering that post? Isn’t it our Christian duty to save sinners from going to hell? There seems to be an obsession to squelch Ralph. Why? No offense meant, just asking. Ed

Hello Ed,

In your post #917, you discussed issues other than how one was saved, to which I responded. Now you feel the “convenient” necessity to return to the topic of the thread? That appears to be, one’s able to state misconceptions about Catholicism and when refuted, ignore the response to squelch the Catholic explanation.

Catholics are Christians. Are you trying to tell us that Catholics don’t have a chance at salvation? The OP shows his religion as “almost Catholic”. Does that cause you reason for concern?

 

[jean8]

Can you show us in scriptures that all one needs is the Bible?

I try to understand why one says they do not need a Church, but I cannot understand one’s necessity to demean a Church they do not understand. The Catholic Church has not added anything and certainly for “their” own desires. That is nothing but unsubstantiated anti-Catholic rhetoric, thrown in the discussion in what appears to be an ad hominem. You see, when you make snide comments such as that, without any sources whatsoever, it reveals alot about you and not in a positive way, in my opinion.

Living the word of God is a tradition, living by sola scritpura is living a man-made tradition and privately interpreting scriptures for yourself is a man-made tradition, whether you can understand that or not. The irony in your statements is, those traditions you follow are not supported by scriptures and therefore are added to scriptures.

son,
What is the catholic view of sola Scriptura? The word seems to irritate catolics.
i just see this as ‘from the Bible.’ What’s wrong with that? The one draw back is interpretation." Ah, there’s the rub."

God bless,
jean

 

[paul_c]

Salvation is achieved through human effort on this earth. We must work to save ourselves from our own destruction here on earth. That said, if you’re talking about how we make it to Heaven, I personally believe in universalism and that pretty much everyone will go to Heaven. Whether or not the evil will go to a place of punishment or purification, I do not know.

SaltnPeepa,
Your post is a little confusing, you say you must work for your salvation and then you say everyone will be saved anyway. Isn’t this a contradiction?

Its a nice thought that everyone will be saved, but it is absolutely refuted in scripture. For instance, in matthew 7: 12-23

Do to others whatever you would have them do to you. This is the law and the prophets. "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few. "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.

The Catholic view on salvation is as follows:
To gain eternal life, you first need to be demonstrate your faith by being baptized in the name of Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. By this act, your sins are forgiven through god’s mercy and the reconciling actions of Jesus on the cross, you become a member of the Church and you get sufficient grace to be saved. However, salvation is not assured at this point. You now need to live your faith, doing the will of God by loving him and your neighbors as yourself. By doing so, you will stay in the state of Grace. If you turn from God thorugh sin, you can be reconciled to God and regain his graces if you confess your sins to a priest through the sacrament of reconciliation, repent and do penance in reparation for your sins. If you die in the state of grace, you will be given eternal life in heaven (although your entrance my be delayed while you are purified in purgatory to reach the level of holiness required in heaven)

As a universalist, you may not believe in Jesus Christ. I will ask you a simple question then. What is the meaning of your life? We Catholics would believe that life is a journey and a test to see whether we will choose to do God’s will and go to heaven or to resist his will and go to Hell. This is completely based on our free will. The church was commissioned by Jesus through St. Peter to help us make the right choices and gain eternal salvation. This forum is one of the avenues to do that. Please take advantage of it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

son,
What is the catholic view of sola Scriptura? The word seems to irritate catolics.
i just see this as ‘from the Bible.’ What’s wrong with that? The one draw back is interpretation." Ah, there’s the rub."

God bless,
jean

It doesn’t irritate us, we recognize the need for more than a, teaching that is man made, “sole authority”. Scriptures does not tell us it is the sole authority. If scriptures were really the sole authority, wouldn’t it contain the definition of the New Testament canon? It does not and men had to define those writings that would be included and those that would be excluded.

Protestants, who only received the Bible in the 1500s, began their own private interpretations and think themselves correct over the Church they got the Bible from. Then with all the different interpretations, came Churches with different doctrines, based on someone’s private interpretation. Everyone of them are preaching their interpretation as if it’s the infallible truth, yet they do not agree, they are not of full accord and of one mind and judgment, as scriptures themselves tell us to be.

 

[paul_c]

son,
What is the catholic view of sola Scriptura? The word seems to irritate catolics.
i just see this as ‘from the Bible.’ What’s wrong with that? The one draw back is interpretation." Ah, there’s the rub."

God bless,
jean

Jean, The reason that Catholics react negatively to Sola Scriptura is that it is demonstrably untrue and illogical. Sola Scriptura means all the truth of salvation is in scripture and in the extreme, nothing outside of scripture is true. Well, Catholics have always taught that scripture contains some, but not all of the truths required for salvation and that the rest are part of Sacred Tradition. In fact, Scripture is simply the subset of Tradition that was put to paper and recognized as the Canon in 382AD.

There are a lot of traditions that you as a Lutheran would recognize that are true but not part of Scripture. Some are simple: worship on Sundays. Christmas on December 25th.
Others are theological and only hinted at in scripture: The nature of the Holy Trinity. Jesus being God and Man. The composition of scripture itself is Traditional and is not refered to in scripture. The fact that Scripture is divinely inspired is traditional, not scriptural. The valid interpretations of Scripture are in fact Traditional, not scriptural because it requires real interaction to understand what something means.

When the reformers left they church, they lost access to the traditions of the Chuch as well. In response, they defined they coopted the bible and created their own traditions. For instance, Martin Luther declared that the Bible had all truths but of course he extracted the deuterocanonical books from them). He also started the tradition of Sola Fide, that faith alone was required for salvation and that you no longer needed to do the will of God to stay in the state of Grace.

 

[PJM]

Hi everyone.

I was wondering: How are we saved?

I mean, I consider the Catholic Church to be authoritative, but I can’t seem to get a straight answer when it comes to salvation. (In contrast, Protestants have a straight answer, “Believe in Jesus”.) I even checked the CCC and it made zero sense. Can someone please give me a short, simple answer to the question? Specifically:

i) I’ve heard it been said “Grace alone”. If so, how do we receive that grace?

ii) Where is this in the Bible?

iii) What of the verses like “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved” (Acts 16:31) and “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9)? How do they fit into the Church’s teaching?

Thanks!!!

(Oh, and by the way, I’m not trying to be pesky, I’m honestly looking for answers. Thanks!)

***Let me share with you the short and sweet of it.

First off Catholics cannot accept the premise of OSAS because it lacks a biblical foundation.

Here is a “Minimalist” approach to what is essential.

Die without unConfessed /unrepented Mortal sins on ones soul. 1 Jn. 5, Jn. 20:023-24.

Have a Christian Baptism. Jn. 3:5

Keep the Commandments [all of them!] which includes knowing and obeying Church Doctrine and Dogma’s.] Mt. 19:16, Mt. 16:18-19.

Practice a life of selfless charity. Mt. Ch. 5

Do these things “and you shall not be far from life. with God.” Mk. 12: 28-34

Having said this one must understand even though these are “necessary” they by themselves cannot, willnot get one to heaven, which is accomplised ONLY through the Merits of Jesus Christ. But these “things” are mysteriously necessary as part of Gods Eternal Plan for individual Salvation.

Love and prayers, Pat ***