I don’t know about that. This is the NAB translation:
PaulC What do you precisely mean above by a “discrete activity following the laying on hands, isn’t there”? Have you been filled with the Holy Spirit by the laying of hands? Love in Christ Ed
I mean that in the Acts account, After the laying on of hands, he is baptized. The laying on of hands in not baptism. And yes, we are sealed with the gifts of the Holy spirit in Confirmation by the laying on of hands. This is different than Baptism, which is always water baptism.
I think what he means, Ed, is that there are distinct and separate things going on in Acts 9 regarding Ananias and Saul, and regarding Christ’s power working on Saul.
Hi Steve it’s good to hear from you again. Let’s start from the begining: Jesus tells Ananias that Paul sees in a vision, KJV “And hath seen in a vision a man named Annias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight”. (note Jesus said nothing about water baptism or Holy Spirit) Then Ananias tells Jesus he’s afraid of paul etc. Jesus tells him not to be etc. Now v17 Ananias meets Paul, KJV “Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be FILLED with the Holy Spirit”. Jesus didn’t say anything about baptism or Holy Spirit but Ananias knows that since Paul was already praying to Jesus he believed, was born again, so when he lays hands on him he will not only regain his sight but will be FILLED with the Holy Spirit. per Acts 8:17 KJV of v18,'And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales; and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized". v19 “And when he had received meat, he was strengthened”. I take v18 to mean that when Ananias laid hands (prayed) for Paul he got it all, scales removed, sight restored and was (baptized) FILLED with the Holy Spirit. Then because he was so weak he sat down to eat. Since Paul stayed in Damascus a few days, he probably was told about water baptism and was baptized. That’s why in Acts 22 his account differs from Acts 9. He doesn’t mentioned hands being laid on him, how he was filled with the Holy Spirit. He mentioned water baptism to confess his sins (repentance) to wash his sins away calling on Jesus to do it. Water baptism does not FILL with the Holy Spirit. Love in Christ Ed.
PaulC As per post 968 you haven’t answered my question as to what do you mean by “discrete activity following the laying of hands” What kind of activity are you speaking about? Give me Scripture reference. Why does Heb 6:2 speaks of baptisms plural can you name more than water baptism for me? In Christ Ed
The eunuch has this scripture explained to him by Phillip, it was about the death of Jesus at Calvary. When the eunuch understood the explanation of the scripture and obviously accepted it, he said that he belived with all his heart and at that point was saved, so he rightly he wanted to baptised, it’s just that simple. Ralph
Ed, I answered you in 968 and Steve added to it in 969. what exactly are you looking for. In the Acts 9 discussion, Ananias and Paul go through a series of activies. Ananias lays hands on Paul. Scales fall from Paul’s eyes and he can see. Then he gets up and then he gets baptized. Why is this so hard to grasp. The laying of hands and the baptism are not the same events. Two things happen between them. Scales fall from Paul’s eyes and he gets up…
PaulC apparently you haven’t read my detailed description of Jesus, Paul and Ananias that I posted on 970. It differs from what you try to explain to me here. Also you said there’s only one batism which is ALWAYS of water. Now pay attention to this: Mat 3:11 John speaks, “I baptize you with water for repentance, But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire”. To me, I see it as one baptism with water and ANOTHER baptism in the Holy Spirit. What say you? Can you show me a Scripture where it’s states by water baptism one is FILLED with the Holy Spirit? ED
Of course I read 970. I was rebutting what you said. You claim that the laying on with hands and the baptism are one act but they clearly are not, separated by two other actions described above ( the scales falling from his eyes and him getting up.)
Ed, you and I both believe that faith was required of Saul to be filled with the HS.
Where in the text does is say he was saved at that point…
Many good answers to this important question. .
PaulC, I respectfully say that you got it wrong. FIRST yes the laying of hands and the baptism being FILLED in the Holy Spirit is a ONE act. Acts 8:17 These people needed the Holy Spirit, they were only water baptized Acts 8:12 When hands were laid on them they were baptized and received the Holy Spirit. SECONDLY Luke 3:21-22 says nothing about receiving the Holy Spirit when being water baptized. Here’s what John 1:32 states,"I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on Him. v33 I would not have known Him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ Jesus was being revealed to John. THIRDLY Your reference to Acts 2:38 doesn’t fly. The people in Acts 8:12 above were water baptized but did not receive the Holy Spirit. FOURTHLY in Mat 3;11 there is NOTHING mentioned about baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit Love in Christ Ed
Ed,
Not sure where you are going with this question. You obviously recognize that Christ died for our redemption.
If God saves people differently in the OT than the NT, then we can conclude that God changed the way He saves; although I cannot support that from Scripture, nor do I subscribe to that position.
So you subscribe to a position that says that the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ had no effect on the way that God saves?
Saving grace absolutely has merit. Without it, no one would be saved. And yes, people sin, but God in his mercy has provided a way to regain grace lost through sin.- the sacrament of reconciliation I described above.
Thanks Steve for your reply. Here’s where we differ. I believe that when a person believes on Jesus, that person then becomes “born again”. Then when baptized, it’s then an outward sign of an inward reality that came by grace throught faith. That’s why John says his baptism is of repentance. When that person confesses his/her sins, they are symbolically washed away. (not forgiven it takes Jesus’ blood to forgive them) Or as some say, water baptism is an entrance to the church of God, to a new life, died , burried with Jesus etc… Now as I understand it in Catholicism, a person becomes “born again” through water baptism and receives the Holy Spirit. But isn’t God showing us in Acts 8:12 that isn’t so.Those people believed in Jesus, were water baptized but yet no Holy Spirit, until Peter and John came down and laid hands, prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit. That’s the Power that Jesus spoke about in Acts.1:8. Now getting back to Paul and Ananias, after Paul got up, because he was weak and hungry he sat down to eat. He was in a house, no water to be submerged in to be baptized. Now when you compare his account in Acts 22:16 “now what are you waiting for, Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away etc.” That statement fits better here, after spending a few days with desciples in Damascus who told him about water baptism. And not Ananias telling a hungry weak man to be baptized that he knows nothing about. When Paul is told that he will receive his sight and be FILLED with the Holy Sprit, I take that to mean he was healed and FILLED baptized in the Holy Spirit. The word FILLED appears for the first time after Pentacost Acts.4:8 I know that we are splitting hairs over which baptism, but it’s a very crucial point. It all stems from interpretation of Jh 3:5. I would very much like to discuss that with you, verse by verse . Thanks love yah in Christ Ed