How are we saved?

[Randy_Carson]

Without the shed blood of Christ, every sin is mortal in the eyes of God. The Bible says it is impossible for a believer to sin in Romans 5 and 6. Now what could this possibly mean? It is our spirits that are saved. The inward man. For a believer, it is the flesh that actually does the sinning. You see, our recreated spirits are perfect in the sight of God. When we align our souls and body to our spirit condition, then we won’t sin that much. Catholics, this is what you fail to realize.

Peace, Golfjack

“That much”??? Is even one sin “mortal” apart from the shed blood of Jesus?

Are you a believer?

Are you a sinner?

Do you commit personal sins?

Are you suggesting that now because of the shed blood of Jesus, it doesn’t really matter whether you sin “that much” or not because you are forgiven no matter what?

Doesn’t this suggest the possibility that once you believe in Jesus, you can (at least theoretically) sin as much as you want because you’re covered by the blood?

 

[golfjack]

It is impossible for my spirit-man to chose to sin. It is my flesh that can chose to sin. It is a good thing to renew our minds with the Word of God, so we do not sin that much. My God resides in me, and He cannot be in the presense of sin. Do you get my point?
Peace, Golfjack

 

[EdOsiecki]

One verse can be taken out of context and a portion of that verse is even easier to take out of context.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

You have to read scriptures within scriptures. Below is a scriptural explanation of John 6:63.

1Co 2:14 But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God. For it is foolishness to him: and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined.
1Co 2:15 But the spiritual man judgeth all things: and he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Those who could not bear His words, understood what He was saying. They left Him and walked with Him no more. Did He stop them or explain the symbolism? Did He privately explain the symbolism to His Apostles, as He often had to do? No, He turned to the Apostles and asked them if they would go away also.

Until. Let me use an analogy here. If you tell your children to behave until you get home, are you telling them it’s ok to misbehave once you return?

If Jesus had brothers and sisters, why did Jesus tell St. John to care for His mother? Wouldn’t Jewish tradition have required siblings to have taken over? You get all over me for “assuming” but it’s ok to assume Mary and Joseph had other children, even if scriptures do not tell us Mary had other children? Is this a double-standard I’ve been trying to explain to you?

I can provide Old Testament verses that show Jewish tradition of a woman binding herself to an oath, that even her father and husband had to respect, but then that’s an assumption because scriptures don’t specifically state Mary had no more children.

This is an example of a double-standard used and a circular argument. It will get neither of us anywhere. Now, let me ask a very important question at this point. Does one believing in the perpetual virginity or not play any role in one’s salvation? Or, is it a chipping point trying to break down Catholicism in some fashion?

The disbelief of the perpetual virginity only came to pass since the Protestant reformation. It is documented by the early Church fathers, up to the reformation, and including some of the reformers themselves. How does one justify throwing away a belief that survived over 1500 years? To me it’s because they are viewing scriptures through modern minds and not the mind of the times the events took place.

Hi ProdicalSon1, you are correct, I should have quoted Jh 6:63 in its entirety, I tried to save space. Above you list 1Co 2:14-16 which speaks of an unspiritual man, But that can’t be me because I consider myself to be a born again spirit filled wash by the Blood of Jesus believer and I DO understand that Jesus was NOT speaking literaly of eating His Flesh/blood or has any of the apostles did too. Jesus’ words, as you quote above, are spirit which nullifies any resemblance of transubstantiation. None of the apostles believed or performed it in the way the Catholic church describes it as a sacrifice at Mass. NEXT your analogy concerning the word “until” is wrong. Why would I tell my children to behave “until” I got Home? Would you? It makes more sense to tell them to behave while I’m gone. This is what I meant in my prior posts. You try to twist the attention away from the true meaning of “until” concerning the virginity of Mary. Mat 1:25,states, Joseph “And knew her not " TILL” she had brought forth her “firstborn” son. etc" That clearly means Jesus was her firstborn and other children followed. The people who knew that family, Mat 13:55.56 give the names of Jesus’ brothers; James, Joseph. Simon, Judas and in Mark 6:3 even sisters are mentioned. John 7:5 “‘Even Jesus’ brothers didn’t believe in Him”. NEXT, “virginity” You are correct, in Jewish tradition many women did bind themselves by an oath. But Mary was not bound by the oath of virginity, she was engaged to marry Joseph (Lk1:27) had she taken such on oath, she would have committed treachery and contemp upon the holy covenant of marriage Gen 2:21-24. Since Mary’s virginity is untrue, so are the other fantasies about her untrue. such as immaculate conception, bodily assunption declared in 1950. Why would she need a Savior Lk 1:47, and offer turtledoves and pigeons for her sins Lk 2:24? It’s irrelevant what the church Fathers say, they are not infallible but God’s Word is. At one time, three Popes excumunicated each other and I’m to believe that only magestrium can interpret Scripture? 1 Cor 2:16 states,he gave me the mind of Christ and Mat 10:16 tells me to be meek as a dove but wise as serpent. Hell would freeze over before I would trust my eternal life on such behavior. ED

 

[EdOsiecki]

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Estote autem factores verbi et non auditores tantum fallentes vosmetipsos.

**

Repentance is an act of faith
The thief showed his faith by trusting in Jesus
He acted on faith by stadning up for Jesus against the mockers
He publicly proclaimed the innocence of Christ - a good work
He acknowledged his own guilt etc

If he had not been crucified would not the good thief have deisred** to do good works and would not he have desired to be baptised. Hi Canto, What does Isa 64:5-6 mean "How can we be saved? “All of us become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags.” Could you further explained it. Thanks ED

 

[paul_c]

Yes I am familiar with this portion of scripture. Now I will ask you to read John 12:48, you will be judged by God’s word (the Bible), so we must follow what it says in the bible. Ralph

Ralph,
Here is the entire section of John 12 : 44-50.
44
Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me believes not only in me but also in the one who sent me,
45
and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me.
46
I came into the world as light, so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in darkness.
47
And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world.
48
Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day,
49
because I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.
50
And I know that his commandment is eternal life. So what I say, I say as the Father told me.”

Ralph, seriously, this is not about the Bible per se, which didn’t exist when Jesus said these words. He is telling us that if we don’t follow his teaching, which is available to all and comes from God, then we condemn ourselves. But yes, we do need to follow what is in the Bible. Remember what the bible is, A teaching tool of the Catholic Church that you have co-opted when you and other Protestants left the church

 

[tukfryer]

“That much”??? Is even one sin “mortal” apart from the shed blood of Jesus?

Are you a believer?

Are you a sinner?

Do you commit personal sins?

Are you suggesting that now because of the shed blood of Jesus, it doesn’t really matter whether you sin “that much” or not because you are forgiven no matter what?

Doesn’t this suggest the possibility that once you believe in Jesus, you can (at least theoretically) sin as much as you want because you’re covered by the blood?

Simply keeping yourself from preforming the physical action of sin, in itself does not mean you have no sin. Thats why we are told do not judge, we cant weigh the motives of the heart. In the same manor watch for wolfs in sheeps clothing, those who counterfeit righteousness only to deceive. So you see apparent / outwardly following the law is not a measure of salvation ether.

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not commit adultery. 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

[tukfryer]

Didn’t I recommend that you do a bit of homework on this topic previously?

From Wikipedia

Baptism of desire (Latin Baptismus Flaminis)** is a teaching of the Roman Catholic Church** explaining that those who desire baptism, but are not baptized with water through the Christian ritual, because of death, nevertheless bring about the fruits of Baptism, if their grace of conversion included an internal act of perfect love and contrition which automatically cleanses the soul of all sin. Hence, the Catechism of the Catholic Church observes, “For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament” (CCC 1259).

I certainly believe Baptism of desire is a teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.
When you embrace Baptism as the physical action that causes salvation by receiving the HS you have to create an exception to the first missed interpretation with yet another.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ
[Jesus].

Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? **The words that I say to you **I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

 

[Philthy]

It is impossible for my spirit-man to chose to sin. It is my flesh that can chose to sin. It is a good thing to renew our minds with the Word of God, so we do not sin that much. My God resides in me, and He cannot be in the presense of sin. Do you get my point? Peace, Golfjack

While we are giving pointers, may I give you one? Flesh does not make choices. Your flesh does not “choose to sin”. You are a human being. A composite of body and soul. You have a conscience where your free will and grace intersect. Sin remains a temptation to you but you have the power to master it. This power is not of yourself - it is the gift of God(1Cor10:13) When you sin, you choose to align yourself in disobedience to God. Depending upon the severity of the sin you can so grieve the Holy Spirit that He departs from you. All the NT authors made it abundantly clear that our actions have eternal consequences. John Paul ll dealt with this topic in his “Fides et Ratio”. My point? Your sins have eternal consequences even the loss of your inheritance of the kingdom of God (1Cor 6). Its one thing to sin - its quite another to pretend you have no control over it and that your sins somehow no longer offend God.

Pray about this. I will pray for you.

 

[Philthy]

I certainly believe Baptism of desire is a teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.
When you embrace Baptism as the physical action that causes salvation by receiving the HS you have to create an exception to the first missed interpretation with yet another.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ
[Jesus].

Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? **The words that I say to you **I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

Being “saved” is great. Inheriting the kingdom of God is greater. I would focus on that if I were you…

 

[tukfryer]

Being “saved” is great. Inheriting the kingdom of God is greater. I would focus on that if I were you…

Proverbs 25:6 Do not exalt yourself in the presence of the king,
And do not stand in the place of the great;
7 For it is better that he say to you,

  “ Come up here,”
  Than that you should be put lower in the presence of the prince

 

[RCee]

Water baptism is simply symbolic of the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord. This act has no saving power. If one believes that it saves, then one comes up a wet sinner.

    Peace,   Golfjack

Golfjack,
We all agree that we all must work out our salvation as a result of being Christians and loving our brothers and sisters as Jesus commanded us but to refer to baptism as symbolic and somehow downplaying its importance you might as well say that Mark, Peter and even Jesus should have just kept their opinions to themselves and not bothered to mention the following because you and the other protestants were going to change their meanings 1500 years later, would that be an accurate statement?

John 3:3-5
Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]”

Baptism now saves you" (1 Pet. 3:21).

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16

God Bless you and will to pray for you.

 

[Canto]

Hi Canto, What does Isa 64:5-6 mean "How can we be saved? “All of us become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags.” Could you further explained it. Thanks ED

Hi! This is an interesting verses and offers up varying translations.

NAS Is 64:5 You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways. Behold, You were angry, for (RSV and) we sinned, {We continued} in them a long time; And shall we be saved**?**

Is 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

NJB Is 64:4 You come to meet those who are happy to act uprightly; keeping your ways reminds them of you. Yes, you have been angry and we have been sinners; now we persist in your ways and we shall be saved.

ODR Is 64:5 Thou hast met him that rejoiceth, and doth justice: in thy ways they shall remember thee: behold thou art angry, and we have sinned: we have been always in them, +++and we shall be saved.

+++ Likewise the same particle and signifieth yet, as if he had said: yet we shall be saved.

ConVersion and NAB
4 Would that you might meet us doing right, that we were mindful of you in our ways! Behold, you are angry, and we are sinful;
5 all of us have become like unclean men, all our good deeds are like polluted rags; We have all withered like leaves, and our guilt carries us away like the wind.

*Withered leaves reminds me of the fig tree and Jesus being the vine and us the branches and if we don’t produce good fruit… *

Bearing in mind Proverbs 1:18 “The wicked maketh an unsteady work: but to him that soweth justice, there is a faithful reward.”

This is not a criticism of good works (under grace and not of ourselves or via the old law alone). If our good works are filthy rages why does St James say we are justified by works and not by faith alone. Why does St Paul say “we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:10)

Of course we can’t earn our salvation/righteousness but we must work our salvation out in fear and trembling for it is God who in us, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will. Philippians 2:12-13 “But by the grace of God I am what I am. and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God which is with me” 1 Corinthians 15:10

Isaiah says that God “meets him who rejoices in doing righteousness, who remembers Thee in Thy ways.” If everything we do is a “filthy rag,” then how can Isaiah say that men can do “righteousness” and “remember” God?"

God blesses the just/righteous (Psalms 5:12), he loves righteous deeds (Psalms 11:7). Psalm 18:20 “And the Lord will reward me according to my justice; and will repay me according to the cleanness of my hands:”

Is this answering your question:shrug:

There are 2 fab articles I’d like to quote, one which puts the verses in their historical context.

 

[Canto]

“But we are all like an unclean thing, and all of our righteousnesses are like filthy rags” (Isa. 64:6).Reference Isaiah the prophet summed up the wretched state into which the covenant people of God had sunk. Though they had the boon of receiving the Law from Mount Sinai, though they had come out of Egypt through the Red Sea, they had turned from their Lawgiver. The children of Zion were worshipping false gods (42:17). They were reveling in the dregs of idolatry. So much so, the prophet calls Jerusalem a harlot (1:21) and likens it to Sodom (3:9).

And yet, the people had an illusion of righteousness. Some of them professed to be “holier than thou,” even while burning incense on strange altars (65:3-5). But God did not esteem their righteousness to be anything but pollution. He even hated the Sabbaths and feasts that He had Himself ordained (1:13,14). The house of Jacob’s apostasy had rendered its best acts of religion unclean. Like the wind, sins were sweeping people away (64:6b).

How appropriate that the prophet would break into such hyperbole as to call this supposed goodness “filthy rags.” What better way to call the nation to repentance? In the context of proud Judah’s barrenness, the rebuke comes with the force of a thunderbolt.

This is most certainly the way the text should be read. We have all heard that “a text without a context is a pretext.” This applies here. The “filthy rags” must be understood historically and with application to the audience: apostate Jerusalem.

The obvious teaching of the Bible is that acts of virtue and goodness are pleasing to God. He does not view them as filthy, unless they are done with false intentions (cp. Matt. 6:2). In fact, God was pleased with Cornelius’ alms, even before that man was converted to Christ (Acts 10:4). This alone should negate the popular application of Isaiah 64:6.

Amazingly, the preceding verse in the book of Isaiah teaches the exact opposite of the common interpretation of “filthy rags.” Listen to the prophet: “You [the Lord] meet him who rejoices and does righteousness” (Isa. 64:5). Genuine works of righteousness, says Isaiah, are valuable; God meets us when we walk in them. Are we told the opposite thing one verse later? That hardly seems reasonable.

Jesus taught that God will reward even small works, such as giving a child a cup of water (Matt. 10:42). Our Lord commands us to let our good deeds “shine before men,” that they might glorify the Father (Matt. 5:16). Paul writes that we are “created in Christ Jesus unto good works” (Eph. 2:10).

The apostle erases all doubt as to how God views works of righteousness. Paul urges the saints to “walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work” (Col. 1:10). Notice that pleasing God is connected to righteous works. They are clearly not filthy rags in the sight of God; they are a delight to Him.

Yes, our works are imperfect. But the Scripture affirms repeatedly that our Father smiles upon our acts of goodness. No one will be saved without them. Jesus states in John 5:29 that the resurrection unto life is for those who have “done good.” Paul writes that God redeemed us to make us “His own special people, zealous for good works” (Tit. 2:14). And so, the entire scheme of redemption has as a focus good works - and a glorious resurrection to those who have walked in them for Christ’s sake.

No, we do not put God in our debt by doing good deeds. We cannot merit salvation by balancing our works with our sins. Salvation and forgiveness lie in our covenant status with God through Christ. But the imitation of our Lord - which includes works (Acts 10:38) - is an obligation of the covenant. It is also a high privilege and a joy.

Clearly, God does not view our righteous acts as filthy rags, but as costly apparel purchased with the blood of Christ.

auburn.edu/~allenkc/openhse/rags.html

 

[Canto]

Revelation 19:7-8 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory. For the wedding day of the Lamb has come, his bride has made herself ready. She was allowed to wear a bright, clean linen garment. (The linen represents the righteous deeds of the holy ones.)

How many times have you heard that our deeds are like “fine linen”? Catholics believe that Sacred Scripture is a unity. It is true that when we are apart from God, our good deeds are like filthy rags. Read the ‘filthy rags’ remark in the context of Isaiah 64.

Isaiah 64-4-6 Would that you might meet us doing right, that we were mindful of you in our ways! Behold, you are angry, and we are sinful; all of us have become like unclean men, all our good deeds are like polluted rags; We have all withered like leaves, and our guilt carries us away like the wind. There is none who calls upon your name, who rouses himself to cling to you; For you have hidden your face from us and have delivered us up to our guilt.

These are not deeds offered to God by people who call on His name or by people who are mindful of God. Well no wonder they are like filthy rags! But when we are mindful of Our Lord’s ways and we call upon His Name our deeds are not only like fine linen, they are the dress code for the Wedding Feast of the Lamb!

And let us not forget Our Lord’s warning about being improperly dressed for the Wedding Feast.

Matthew 22:11-14 “But when the king came in to meet the guests he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment. He said to him, ‘My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?’ But he was reduced to silence. Then the king said to his attendants, ‘Bind his hands and feet and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’ Many are invited, but few are chosen.”

postscripts.blog.com/1840671/

 

[Philthy]

Proverbs 25:6 Do not exalt yourself in the presence of the king,
And do not stand in the place of the great;
7 For it is better that he say to you,

  “ Come up here,”
  Than that you should be put lower in the presence of the prince

John 11:35
“Jesus wept.”

 

[Randy_Carson]

It is impossible for my spirit-man to chose to sin. It is my flesh that can chose to sin. It is a good thing to renew our minds with the Word of God, so we do not sin that much. My God resides in me, and He cannot be in the presense of sin. Do you get my point?

Peace, Golfjack

It’s becoming clearer, yes. But I need more…

Do you commit sins?

If yes, is it YOUR own fault that you have chosen to sin?

If yes, are you guilty of sinning?

 

[EdOsiecki]

Golfjack,
We all agree that we all must work out our salvation as a result of being Christians and loving our brothers and sisters as Jesus commanded us but to refer to baptism as symbolic and somehow downplaying its importance you might as well say that Mark, Peter and even Jesus should have just kept their opinions to themselves and not bothered to mention the following because you and the other protestants were going to change their meanings 1500 years later, would that be an accurate statement?

John 3:3-5
Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]”

Baptism now saves you" (1 Pet. 3:21).

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16

God Bless you and will to pray for you.

Hi RCee this Ed, No we all don’t agree that we have to work out our salvation. Isa 64:5-6 states,our righteous works are like filthy rags. Jn 3:5 has ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with water baptism. Water baptism can’t save anyone. If it could, then, Jesus’ dying and shedding His BLOOd on the cross was invain. Heb 9:22 Very clearly states without the shedding of blood there is NO remission of sins. That’s very clear. If your sins are not atoned for, then you are not saved. Water baptism is an outward sign of our wanting to turn to God. Our show of repentance. Just as golfjack explained earlier, baptism is a symbolic dying to ourselves and being burried with Christ. John the baptist out to know why he was sent by God. He very clearly states in Mat 3:11 “I baptized you with water for REPENTANCE”. John wouldn’t baptize the Pharisees Mat 3:8 he, first wanted them to show some fruit of repentance. The confusion with Catholics comes about from the mis-interpretation of John 3:5 , The “the born of water” does NOT mean water baptism. The Catholic Duay Bible adds to the confusion by adding the word “again”. Thus, “born again of water” Jesus did not say that, He said, “born of water”. You also quote Mark 16:16 but it really starts at v15 who BELIEVES the gospel is what saves, then baptism to show repentance. Acts 10 Cornelius and his group got saved by hearing Peter preached the gospel. The holy spirit came upon them all. They all got saved. Later they were water baptized to show their repentance. By the way, that chapter shows that all the good works Cornelius had done would not have gotten him saved. God Bless ED

 

[ralphy]

Didn’t I recommend that you do a bit of homework on this topic previously?

From Wikipedia

Baptism of desire (Latin Baptismus Flaminis) is a teaching of the Roman Catholic Church explaining that those who desire baptism, but are not baptized with water through the Christian ritual, because of death, nevertheless bring about the fruits of Baptism, if their grace of conversion included an internal act of perfect love and contrition which automatically cleanses the soul of all sin. Hence, the Catechism of the Catholic Church observes, “For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament” (CCC 1259).

You must be kidding me. You want me to believe something that some men from the Roman catholic church decided on and consider it to be equal to scripture. You are sadly way out in left field, and are being mislead. Get to the word of God and get away from these so called “traditional” things that Roman catholics believe. The only book that is inspired is the Bible, and you will be judged by it in the end. Ralph

 

[golfjack]

Does anyone here see the difference between the remission of sins and forgiveness of sins? Sounds like a good topic for me to preach on next week.
Peace, Golfjack

 

[ralphy]

Hi RCee this Ed, No we all don’t agree that we have to work out our salvation. Isa 64:5-6 states,our righteous works are like filthy rags. Jn 3:5 has ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with water baptism. Water baptism can’t save anyone. If it could, then, Jesus’ dying and shedding His BLOOd on the cross was invain. Heb 9:22 Very clearly states without the shedding of blood there is NO remission of sins. That’s very clear. If your sins are not atoned for, then you are not saved. Water baptism is an outward sign of our wanting to turn to God. Our show of repentance. Just as golfjack explained earlier, baptism is a symbolic dying to ourselves and being burried with Christ. John the baptist out to know why he was sent by God. He very clearly states in Mat 3:11 “I baptized you with water for REPENTANCE”. John wouldn’t baptize the Pharisees Mat 3:8 he, first wanted them to show some fruit of repentance. The confusion with Catholics comes about from the mis-interpretation of John 3:5 , The “the born of water” does NOT mean water baptism. The Catholic Duay Bible adds to the confusion by adding the word “again”. Thus, “born again of water” Jesus did not say that, He said, “born of water”. You also quote Mark 16:16 but it really starts at v15 who BELIEVES the gospel is what saves, then baptism to show repentance. Acts 10 Cornelius and his group got saved by hearing Peter preached the gospel. The holy spirit came upon them all. They all got saved. Later they were water baptized to show their repentance. By the way, that chapter shows that all the good works Cornelius had done would not have gotten him saved. God Bless ED

In my opinion based of what I understand of scripture, spiritual baptism is “the washing of water by the word” and not of water in believers baptism. Water can never take away sin, only the blood of Christ can take sin away. Ralph