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ralphy
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I compared the RCC teaching with the bible and found that most of the teaching of the RCC did not line up with the Word of God, the bible. Ralph
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ralphy
Guest
I cannot answer for all RC, but I can answer it for me, and I would expect it would be the same experience for all RC my age, if they were not blinded by the catechish and the teaching of theRCC. Ralph
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Hey Ralph,
Let’s look at the history of the Bible. The Catholic Church defined the canon of the New Testament, through intense prayerful research and interpretations, and preserved the sacred scriptures through the ages. It wasn’t until the 1500s that the Protestant reformation took the sacred scriptures and decided they could interpret it for themselves. How could a generation, hundreds of years later have interpreted better than those that gave us the Bible? Sola scriptura only came about after the Protestant reformation.
When you were a young person, are you telling me they never read the scriptures at every Mass?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
That was according to your own fallible interpretation Ralph. Where do scriptures teach us to interpret them for ourselves? It doesn’t…
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davidv
Guest
Since the catechism is based on the Bible how can it blind?
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tukfryer
Guest
I just want to throw this reply I made in another tread over here to ask what the Catholic think in context of baptism, and the exclusive nature of the CC role in salvation.
Abrams promise completed.
32 Send therefore to Joppa and call Simon here, whose surname is Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. When he comes, he will speak to you.
In the wilderness did not Mosses strike the Rock and water came out? symbolizing the cross, Jesus being struck down and out poured “water / HS”
Then later God instructed Mosses to speak to the Rock but instead he struck it again, twice. Did this displeased God? 20:8.
God was presenting a foreshadowing of the things to come.
Numbers 20:12 Then the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”
Do we now do as Mosses and Aaron? striking instead of speaking to the Rock. Shall we add to the words above from God to Cornelius “When he comes, he will speak to you” Shall we like Mosses add to it? It looks pretty clear that God intended after striking the rock, all that was necessary was to speak and out would flow torents of living water.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
By not following instructions God took away Mosses and Aaron’s right to lead into the promised land “heaven”. Today do we teach that action in the form of “striking” or baptism is necessary to receive the HS “water”. If we do does God accept it? He did not accept Mosses addition to Gods instruction.
Later in acts 10 we see the Gentiles receiving the HS as Peter spoke water flowed from the Rock Jesus to the Gentiles, by speaking the word alone. But Peter after this commands them to be baptized. Was this Peter fulling reenacting Moses by adding the baptismal.
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness (repents) is accepted by Him.
Abrams promise completed.
32 Send therefore to Joppa and call Simon here, whose surname is Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. When he comes, he will speak to you.
In the wilderness did not Mosses strike the Rock and water came out? symbolizing the cross, Jesus being struck down and out poured “water / HS”
Then later God instructed Mosses to speak to the Rock but instead he struck it again, twice. Did this displeased God? 20:8.
God was presenting a foreshadowing of the things to come.
Numbers 20:12 Then the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”
Do we now do as Mosses and Aaron? striking instead of speaking to the Rock. Shall we add to the words above from God to Cornelius “When he comes, he will speak to you” Shall we like Mosses add to it? It looks pretty clear that God intended after striking the rock, all that was necessary was to speak and out would flow torents of living water.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
By not following instructions God took away Mosses and Aaron’s right to lead into the promised land “heaven”. Today do we teach that action in the form of “striking” or baptism is necessary to receive the HS “water”. If we do does God accept it? He did not accept Mosses addition to Gods instruction.
Later in acts 10 we see the Gentiles receiving the HS as Peter spoke water flowed from the Rock Jesus to the Gentiles, by speaking the word alone. But Peter after this commands them to be baptized. Was this Peter fulling reenacting Moses by adding the baptismal.
Then later in chapter 15:7 “top of post” they are speaking of circumcision but Peter makes no mention of action other than speaking the word.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
The Old Testament prefigures the New. What Moses did changed God’s plan. How many times was Christ struck to draw water from His side?
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thechristian
Guest
900 threads later…and you guys are still arguing about how we are saved…talking about spreading confusing…how about spreading a little love of the gospel.
this how you arer saved:
You are saved by grace thur faith
look it up!!!
this how you arer saved:
You are saved by grace thur faith
look it up!!!
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tukfryer
Guest
What do you mean Moses changed Gods plan?
Jesus was struck one time in His death. Struck one time with a spear and out came water.
Are you trying to imply that Jesus was beat repeatedly “struck” many times?
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Prodigal_Son1
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No, Moses, by striking the rock twice broke the prefigurment of Christ being struck once.
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golfjack
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Ralphy, it was ccertainly my experience. All I learned in Catholic inst’s was religion. I did learn about God, but wasn’t told how to have a personal relationship with God. But finally, I did get to know God by His Word ( Bible). :clapping::newidea:
:bible1:
:bible1: Peace, Golfjack
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Prodigal_Son1
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You can thank the Catholic Church for defining the canon of scriptures and preserving the sacred scriptures through the ages for you to have that Bible. Too bad you feel your personal interpretation is better than the keepers of the word since it was written and put into your hands hundreds of years later. :tsktsk:Ralphy, it was ccertainly my experience. All I learned in Catholic inst’s was religion. I did learn about God, but wasn’t told how to have a personal relationship with God. But finally, I did get to know God by His Word ( Bible). :clapping::newidea:
Code:Peace, Golfjack
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SteveGC
Guest
Look at the bolded parts, ralph. You JUST interpreted scripture! You explained what it meant using different words. THAT IS AN INTERPRETATION.
I get so frustrated with people who don’t understand this. As soon as you read something, and then tell someone what it means, or doesn’t mean, THAT IS, BY DEFINITION, AN INTERPRETATION.
Under that light, I will rewrite your comment here more accurately:
Furthermore, if you believe that “no one comes to the Father but by Me” includes all prayers…then make sure that when someone asks you to pray for them, you respond to them in this way…“sorry, no can do, you have to go through Christ yourself, not through ralphy…Scripture doesn’t say you can get to the Father through ralphy…so no, I can not pray for you”.
If you don’t do this, and end up praying for them…you just broke your own rule, ralph. You see, we’re treating the saints in the same way we would treat our neighbor in the pew next to us, asking them for their prayers to the Father, THROUGH Christ. You act like we’re praying to the saints, and asking them to by-pass Christ and go right to the Father, or worse, like we’re treating the saints themselves as the Father. You clearly had a poor Catholic education. And I know it wasn’t all your fault, ralph. I think you were let down by those charged with your Catholic upbringing. It does happen. In your generation, it happened much too frequently.
Would like to also hear your response to the “one time sacrifice” issue that I addressed for you in post 880. Thank you.
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ralphy
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Let me say first of all, when you refer to the “catholic” church, you are actually refering to the “Roman catholic church” to which you belong. There is a vast difference between the RCC and the Catholic church. I belong to the catholic church which is the Body of Christ, (those who are born again), this is His church. The catholic church follows the bible, as I do. The Roman catholic church mix tradition with scripture and lean mostly to the traditional side as instructed by the hierarachy of the RCC. .Basically you do not see pomp and ceremony displayed in the bible, in fact it is frowned upon. In the RCC it is front and center, very colorful and visual to the eye, it may even in fact attract some people, but also very empty inside. This reminds me somewhat of another group in scripture that Christ refered to, they are called Pharisee"s. The church I attended did read the scriptures at every mass, a very small amount of it, which went in one ear and out the other as I was never taught the bible, and was not saved. Going to the RCC when I was a kid was a routine thing to do, we all (nine of us) had to go as our parents expected it. I was taught that the RCC was the only church that would go to heaven, every other church was wrong and going to hell. I look at it now as a brain washing thing having no instruction as to why this would be the right church, I just had to accept it because the hierarachy said so. This is a terrible thing to do to a child as they are so trusting. I thank God that someone came to me and explained to me the way of salvation from the scripture so I could see for myself how to get saved. I will attempt to follow the bible as best I can, for it is the word of God that will judge me in the end. In christian love . Ralph
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SteveGC
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Thanks, but unfortunately we’re here to talk a little more in depth than that.
How do you respond to someone when they ask you how to paint a house? “Just put the brush in the can and slap it on the siding!”
Details is what we’re doing here. A little edification for the salvation of souls.
And you can thank the “Reformers” for the “spread of confusion”
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ralphy
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OK. This needs no iterpretation: “No none comes to the father but by me”. You do pray to the saints, Christ told you who to pray to and you ignore it. By the way saints are also living on earth now, scripture refers to those who are saved as saints. The saints who have gone on cannot help you, they have no power. By the way, you cannot bypass Christ, if you do not pray through Him, your petitions go nowhere. Don’t waste your time. Ralph
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Prodigal_Son1
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Semantics! You’re playing word games. There was one Catholic Church, which is led by the bishop of Rome. That’s the Catholic Church that defined the canon of the New Testament and preserved the sacred scripture so that you have one in your hands. There was no “catholic” then and now. That’s an invention of Protestants to justify taking the scriptures and privately interpreting them, which is NOT in scriptures.
Whose fault is it that scriptures went in one of your ears and out the other?
That someone came to you and preached another gospel than the one you were taught? Is that what you’re saying?
Protestants want to decide for themselves, and there are plenty of different interpretations to decide by. That’s finding a Church to fit your lifestyle and not fitting your lifestyle to the Church. Obedience to God is His way, not the way of men who decide what areas they are willing to be obedient in.
What gets me is your attitude appears to be that your way is the only way and it doesn’t include Catholics. Since all you do is put Catholicism down, be honest and tell us what your purpose is here? Or would telling us the truth get you banned?
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paul_c
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We don’t ignore anything in scripture, Ralph. And you would be wrong to assume that we pray only to the saints. In fact, I would bet most Catholics pray mostly to Jesus and God and only occaisionly to a Saint for their support. And it is certainly your personal view that the saints can’t help us through their prayers. Why should we accept your view over that of the Catholic Church? And yes, we agree that those that will be saved are saints.
Ralph,
you calim to have been a Catholic for what, 30 years, and you’ve been on these threads now for many monhts. Why do you continue to misrepresent Catholic positions?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
More attitude Ralph? Where were all these sola scriptura, private interpreting, Protestant Christians from the beginning of the Church until the 1500s, when the reformers themselves came from the Catholic Church?
It really appears you have an axe to grind, but from what you’ve told us it wasn’t the Church’s fault, it was your own fault. :tsktsk:
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tukfryer
Guest
Read Rev 12 and tell me the church was flourishing on earth after Christ rose. FYI 1260 days = 1260 years.
The Catholic church is the one in dogmatic fashion made it impossible for anything but the reformers to leave.
The CC is the one that invented God in a box.
Few protestants teach they are the only way to salvation.
Your church my friend first established that insurmountable indifference for others.
God in a Box
There is indeed one universal church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice. (4th Lateran Council of 1215, topic #1 - Confession of Faith)
Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins. (Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam of 1302)
It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church. (Council of Florence session 11 - February 4, 1442)
We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord. And who would presume to mark out the limits of this ignorance according to the character and diversity of peoples, countries, minds and the rest? (Pope Pius IX, in an allocution on December 9th, 1854)
This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved. (Vatican II, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church “Lumen Gentium” #14 - November 21, 1964)
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"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. (John 10:9)
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Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. (John 14:6)
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"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. (John 3:17)
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"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)
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They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." (Acts 16:31)- Status