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vluvski
Guest
tell them, but gently.
Or do you think they already know and are in denial?
Or do you think they already know and are in denial?
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Island_Oak
Guest
Dear sweet Sparkle:
You seem to have a profound inability to recognize disfunction when it slaps you in the face, again and again. You parents have NOT been fooled. They may be deluding themselves or perpetuating this cycle out of guilt, a misplaced sense of responsibility or to prevent themselves from looking like failures as parents. Whatever their motivation, STAY OUT of it. Your brother and his wife are two, able-bodied adults with no dependant children from what I recall. If they need to spend some time in shelter, or someone’s basement so be it. Just make sure it isn’t yours. You have enough on your plate right now you need to focus on. Don’t permit this to become a distraction or excuse that keeps you from doing the important work of fixing what is broken in your own life.
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spacecadet
Guest
i totally agree. it took my sibling 10 yrs but things are finally looking up
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sparkle
Guest
Island Oak:
Thanks IO. You’re right. I am very nieve (sp?) I suppose. I was raised always believing the best about a person, like they’re all honest, good, loving, and I have learned the most hard way, that, well, some people are just not this. My parents still believe this about my brother, who this time has done some major work as far as lying, just plain deceitful stuff, to get more money out of them. See, they’re ready to go into a rest home here, and are sitting on a huge, beautiful piece of property overlooking the ocean. I’m afraid my sibling just wants to come in for the kill. You say, IO I should sit back and do nothing? Just let it happen? Not protect my aging parents? Hummmmm…I really do question your advice here.
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LSK
Guest
Oh, Sparkle…don’t you have enough of your own stuff to work on before you decide to jump into another family mess??? Hey! I have an idea! How about you go to the reunion, stay in the motel, and DON’T OPEN YOUR MOUTH ABOUT WHAT YOUR PARENTS ARE DOING WITH THEIR OWN LIFE???
Wait, I know…you feel so obligated and torn up about this. Well, you have a marriage to put back together remember? So go to the event and ask yourself only ONE question:
How can I be helpful to my parents?
Then, wash dishes, serve canapes, laugh at all the stupid jokes and give your brother a hug and say “God, it’s great to see you.” and then quet down and smile a lot…
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sparkle
Guest
Hi LSK!! Hope you’re havin a good day. Could you answer my questions on my other thread in this forum wherein you have participated? I believe it is the “need help with separation issues topic”. Thx.
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Island_Oak
Guest
You say, IO I should sit back and do nothing? Just let it happen? Not protect my aging parents? Hummmmm…I really do question your advice here.
The question is “what is the focus of your concern?” If you are feeling slighted or angry that your conniving, irresponsible brother will make off with more than his fair share of the family assests, it is understandably frustrating, but nonetheless an area over which you have no control. As long as your parents are alive and competent, their money is theirs to do with what they please. You may judge their decision to be foolish, aggravating and unfair. But short of having them declared legally incompetent and appointing a neutral conservator to protect them from being bankrupted and left destitute by this son, you have little option here but to bite your tongue. The sooner you recognize that you have no power and apparently no invitation from them to insert yourself into their decision making–no matter how warped you think it is–the better. Don’t make the mistake of thinking they are oblivious to your brother’s manipulation or make yourself crazy by trying to understand their capitulation. Just leave it alone.
If you are feeling emotionally slighted, that is more complicated issue. We all wish for even-handedness from our parents with all their assets–tangible ($, possessions, heirlooms) and intangible (time, attention, affection, love). You can’t ever make someone else love you the way you want/need to be loved, it is a gift. Parents are not immune from making mistakes or being limited in their understanding of how their actions with one child can impact others. Acknowledge the hurt and inequity, but don’t wallow your disappointment. Focus on finding another source for emotional gratification since this obviously isn’t it.
p.s. I am sorry your family on both sides has proven to be so taxing. You deserve to feel like you are a valuable, equal and treasured member who can find respite in her family, not aggravation. Please start looking beyond this disfunctional, needy mix for some real support. Remember ‘friends are the family we get to pick for ourselves!’
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sparkle
Guest
Island Oak:
Well, to be honest, it is nothing except concern for them, that they are being totally “duped”. Nothing more. They are such honest, dear folks, nieve, (like me–where do you think I learned it from?), my dad is a pastor, etc., and I do not want to see a sibling taking them for all they are worth, taking advantage of them, telling them outright lies, etc., and them being blind to it, and especially my mom being wrapped around her son’s little finger. That is all. I know you are trying to perhaps read into it some psychological need I might have, etc., I appreciate your looking into it IO, but this is not the case. I only feel sorry for them and I love them. There is a scheme here, which actually could warrant police intervention it is so dishonest. So, you say then I should just “forget it, let them deal with it”? Is this what you suggest? Seems like it then. Well, thx, I do appreciate your opinion.
Sparkle, I have been reading through this thread and several others that you have started. You seem to be a well-meaning person and I applaud your desire to help your parents and your brother.
But I suspect you are misjudging your parents motivations in providing financial aid to your brother. I don’t think that ‘helping’ him is the point. I think that perhaps what your parents want (and they have taught you to want something similar in your relationships) is expressions of approval and a stress free ‘relationship’ with him. When your brother has a roof over his head and his bills are paid he is probably more than happy to act appreciative and to promise that everything will soon be better.
Your parents may or may not be aware of the fact that your brother is taking advantage of them. But the fact is that it is probably irrelevant to them. They value having the externals of relationship too much to worry whether there is any real substance to it. They are not willing to envision a life without your brother in it. You can tell your parents that he is taking advantage of them but it won’t matter. That information has little bearing on what they want and ‘need’ from your brother.
Instead of trying to fix this, I’d take Leslie’s advice and just enjoy your brother’s company. And perhaps you should look and see how you ARE your parents.
But I suspect you are misjudging your parents motivations in providing financial aid to your brother. I don’t think that ‘helping’ him is the point. I think that perhaps what your parents want (and they have taught you to want something similar in your relationships) is expressions of approval and a stress free ‘relationship’ with him. When your brother has a roof over his head and his bills are paid he is probably more than happy to act appreciative and to promise that everything will soon be better.
Your parents may or may not be aware of the fact that your brother is taking advantage of them. But the fact is that it is probably irrelevant to them. They value having the externals of relationship too much to worry whether there is any real substance to it. They are not willing to envision a life without your brother in it. You can tell your parents that he is taking advantage of them but it won’t matter. That information has little bearing on what they want and ‘need’ from your brother.
Instead of trying to fix this, I’d take Leslie’s advice and just enjoy your brother’s company. And perhaps you should look and see how you ARE your parents.
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sparkle
Guest
Very interesting. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
A good analysis. Her parents are adults, too, and their money is theirs to spend as they see fit. If he is lying to them and they don’t know it and she does, then by all means she should confront him.
She would tell him that if he doesn’t confess, she’ll tell the parents the truth. But if they know the truth and she’s said her little piece… all she can do is pray for all and leave it in the hands of God.
OTOH… if they were old and not in their full faculties, his behavior might constitute elder abuse. In that case, I think you’d have to call the authorities, so that their retirement assets would be protected.
If it is borderline–and I think it may be, considering how they let their guilt rule them–consider asking one of his brother pastors to talk to him about it. After that, there is little you can or should do.
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sparkle
Guest
Thank you BLB. This is what I’ve been trying to find out by someone here as to what to do!!! Don’t you mean though I should confront THEM? (My parents).
L
LSK
Guest
Why, Sparkle? What would my answer on the OTHER forum have to do with your ‘newest’ problem?
Once again, you are deflecting and trying to ignore the problem. What your parents do with their money is none of your business. You need to butt out of your brother’s life and apologize to him for that email - that was so out of line. If your brother ends up on the street, that’s where God wants him to be.
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LSK
Guest
You are the Queen of Potential Confrontation - :tsktsk:
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sparkle
Guest
What e-mail LSK??
You say if my bro ends up out on the street, that’s where God wants him to be. Would you also say then if he lies, committs a serious fraud, deceives my folks to get thousands of bucks, well that’s just what he needs to do??? Hummmm
whoops somehow this response in the yellow box got all mixed up----
so I clarified “My response”…
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
If he has been lying, go to him and tell him, “You have been saying thus and so to Dad and Mom. It is not true. If you won’t admit that to them, I will tell them, and I will bring proof.”
In any case, whether your brother is lying or because you think that misplaced guilt or disability or whatever is the reason for their insistence on being taken in by his manipulations, and that makes them not fully responsible for what he’s doing to them, I think I’d find your dad’s best friend in the world of pastors and talk this over with him (or her). If there are more than one, maybe get together with the group of them… people whose judgement both you and your parents know and respect. I would not take this to any members of your father’s congregation, but to someone in the position of elder, either with him or above him, who is also someone whom he would be willing to at least hear. (That is, not his bishop, if his bishop drives him batty!)
Let them help you to discern what you or the group of you should do to help this fine couple. That would be my first course of action. If these pastors told me to sit on my hands, keep my mouth shut, and pray, then for the time being at least, that is what I would do. If nothing else, they will help you to be at peace with the difficult, counter-intuitive job of minding your own business.
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LSK
Guest
You shared that you sent him an email and he blasted you for it…that is the email I was refering to.What e-mail LSK??
You say if my bro ends up out on the street, that’s where God wants him to be. Would you also say then if he lies, committs a serious fraud, deceives my folks to get thousands of bucks, well that’s just what he needs to do??? Hummmm
whoops somehow this response in the yellow box got all mixed up----
And yes, believe it or not there are times when out of evil comes great good. If you do not believe me, look to the Crucifix. Could there have been a greater evil that creatures murdering their creator? And yet from that evil came the greatest Good of all time - the Truth.
You keep talking about your folks like they have asked for your help…have they? NOPE …it is just one more time you are making a decision to jump into the middle of someone else’s behavior when you have so much going on in your own life…remember the Bible? Have you removed the plank in your own eye?
Just a thought…hang in there… I know it is difficult to believe that God has a plan…maybe putting this little ‘saying’ on your bathroom mirror would help:
Dear Sparkle,
Thank you for your concern about the world…but I have it covered.
Love, Jesus.
L
LSK
Guest
Here is the crux of the problem - you are jealous of the attention your sick brother is getting.
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kaymart
Guest
You offered your help. He didn’t want it. BACK OFF! You are enabling him too. What your parents do about him is their business not yours. If they were to hand their life saving over to him its their business also. Grown brothers and sisters need to learn to keep their noses out of their siblings personal lives and stop acting like mommy and daddy are giving him more attention then me. I know you didn’t say it but the overtones sound like it.
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sparkle
Guest
Hummmmm. Never considered that one. Thx for sharing your opinion, as always, LSK, but I would say I’m more concerned about at this juncture especially, after this latest fraudulent and completely dishonest illegal activity, this event is just so shocking, their being “taken”, duped, having the wool pulled completely over their eyes. I do know it is still their life, and people do have free will, yes, but I do think if someone is blatently ripping someone off, especially within your family, we shouldn’t just sit there and think, “it’s their problem, let them deal with it, they must know the jist of it.” Many folks just don’t grasp the jist of it. My other siblings are stooped also as to know how to handle it. Thought I could get some insight here on the forums. Seems it’s really the culture today, and the prevalent thinking, “everybody fend for themself”. No one wants to get involved today, and try to help. That’s life I guess. At the same time, LSK, I think I grasp your point too, that if a person has done what they can, and pointed out something over and over, and people keep making the same mistakes, choosing what they want to think and believe, it might be time to stop trying to assist, and let the chips fall where they may.
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