How can Jews not believe?

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This is a psychological fallacy based on causal attribution theory, namely, big outcomes require big causes. It is one of the reasons why a big event such as the assassination of JFK has generated so many conspiracy theories. That is, since the killing of a POTUS is such an extraordinary outcome, it could not have been accomplished by a lone gunman. Likewise, the widespread existence of a religion, including martyrs and saints, must mean that its creator did something really important to have such an effect. It is not logical thinking but is rather based on our motivational need to afford us a sense of security and safety, and, in this case, truth. Otherwise, random events can produce harmful or false outcomes, which make us feel too unsure of our own futures.
 
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imo said:
I mean, after 2,000 years, in their view, no prophets, no messiah, no temple… I can’t imagine how they just can’t see! Aren’t they just a little bit concerned that maybe just maybe Jesus was the one and they made a gigantic mistake ignoring him? It must at least bugs a little bit some Jews…
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And almost the same 2000 years we Christians (or some.of us) have been telling them He will return any day now …
 
imo said:
Well, so for you Jesus was just an impostor who happened to create the largest religion in the history of mankind?
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Not a good argument. In its early days Christianity was not the world’s largest religion. Paganism, Hinduism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism and many others were larger. Did Christianity only become true after it got large? Hardly.

As to the question of how the Jews see Jesus, have a look at Why Jews Don’t Believe In Jesus which explains why from a Jewish perspective.
 
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Have there not been a large number of other people claim to be the Messiah? And even if Jews were to accept that Jesus was/is indeed the Messiah, what about that status would lead them to think he was also God? There is no Jewish tradition of a God/Messiah.
 
imo said:
I mean, after 2,000 years, in their view, no prophets, no messiah, no temple… I can’t imagine how they just can’t see! Aren’t they just a little bit concerned that maybe just maybe Jesus was the one and they made a gigantic mistake ignoring him? It must at least bugs a little bit some Jews…
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Even God simultaneously can see the past, present and future, He is saving us, the human race according to His timetable of our salvation.

God’s timetable of salvation is written in Romans 11:1 to 36, please read it.

The timing of our salvation is happening according to God’s Designed, Decreed and Predestined plan.

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence also explains the ultimate perfection, to which God has destined the human race.
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This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).
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It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).
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It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, Hom. xxviii in Matt, n. 3 in; P.G., LVII, 354).
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All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, i, v, vi, xv, xvi;).
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His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
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He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii
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That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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Rom.11:26; And so all Israel will will be saved …
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God bless
 
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I don’t have a horse in this race so I’m not trying to advocate anything.

But hypothetically speaking someone could say the same about Christianity. “How can one believe? It’s been 2000 years and Christ hasn’t returned, etc etc”
 
Rhubarb said:
How can one believe?
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FOR US TO BELIEVE THE BALL IS IN GOD’S COURT, IT IS HIS UNMERITED AND IRRESISTIBLE GIFT.

CCC 298 Since God could create everything out of nothing, he can also, through the Holy Spirit, give spiritual life to sinners by creating a pure heart in them. 148
And since God was able to make light shine in darkness by his Word, he can also give the light of faith to those who do not yet know him.

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CCCS 1990-1991; “Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
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CCCS 1996-1998; Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.”
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There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide).

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St. Augustine on Grace and Predestination

(1) On human interaction with grace : Every good work, even good will, is the work of God:
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De gratia Christi 25, 26: "For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it"

De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32: "It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good … . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, providing most effective powers to the will."

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St. Thomas teaches that God effects everything, the willing and the achievement. S. Th.II/II 4, 4 ad 3:

St. Thomas also teaches that all movements of will and choice must be traced to the divine will: and not to any other cause, because Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing. CG, 3.91.
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308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
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Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …

2022; The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.
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God bless
 
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This thread and the way it’s set up reminds me of the battles Randy Carson and I used to have here over the years - arguments that were wonderful examples of two people ‘talking at’ rather than ‘with’ one another.

It seems to me that, if people from different religions want to have sensible discussions, it’s necessary to start understanding the ‘other’ religion on its own terms.

As @Mike_from_NJ mentioned me having asserted:
Christianity isn’t Judaism plus Jesus, and
Judaism isn’t Christianity minus Jesus.
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They’re very different religions with different outlooks and different foci of belief - so much so that what may be crucially important in one, is irrelevant to the other.
 
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In general. you know can NOT explain to a person how what you believe is the truth, when they already know what they believe is the truth by telling them they are wrong in what they believe… I’m just saying.

Jesus Himself asked people who do you believe I am… if they believed Yea, if not He just said they will see the truth when you see it… I’m sure other religions have something similar…not that I know.
 
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I’ve been talking religion on the net since the 90s (my husband had to work abroad a lot and it was entertainment as much as anything else) and, eventually, it was the Catholics’ turn. I suppose I’ve stayed because my ancestors survived in a sea of Catholics and it’s of some historical/attitudinal interest.

Why have I remained outside the Church? Because I don’t believe a word of it but you’ve read me saying that before. 😉
 
Many Jews believe in Jesus.
Sometimes Jews mix with local ethnic groups and become meaningful contribution in a Christian life of different Christian traditions and nations.
There is Jewish Christian movement called “Messianic Jews” but its also political, pro-Israel movement.
 
I just don’t know how Jews can live with the fact the just before Jesus they had a lot of prophets coming very frequently in short spaces of time and announcing the Messiah. Then someone came announcing himself as the Messiah and since then the temple was destroyed and 2,000 years and no new prophet l, nothing, radio silence dryness. Isn’t it just a little bit suspicious? Jews of this forum: are you not a little bit bugged by that?
And please, don’t compare the second coming with this. Jesus came once till now, we have no point of reference to consider a next coming, it can take 100,000 years for all that matter. But jews had a lot of prophets in a very short amount of time, Jesus came and just, boom, temple destroyed and no more prophets for 2,000 years. Again, suspicious…
 
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The prophetic political expectations of Messianic Jewish Community.
I made this picture during the divine service when I visited this beautiful community.
The local community had a big quantity success in past years. It was the biggest in Europe but I think that half of the members are not ethnic Jews.
 
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This map is the perfect recipe for a disaster in Middle East politics. By the way, Messianic Jews are really a Christian Protestant denomination. Same as Jews for Jesus.
 
Salibi said:
Like when Muslim posters quote the Koran to prove a point as if I give a hoot what the Koran says.
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Being straightforward while diplomatic can be a bit of a tightrope, though. 🙃
 
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