How can Jews not believe?

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There are also still a small number of Nazarene Jews (so they call themselves) who believe in Jesus as the Messiah, but do not believe Him to be divine. While belief in Jesus even as a human-only Messiah is frowned upon by the vast majority of Jews, this particular group believes so. The group does not consider itself Messianic Jews, however. They are a group apart from all other Jews or Jewish wannabes, including the Karaites and the Noahides.
 
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Michael16 said:
I’m thinking that the Jews rejected Jesus because He didn’t fit their concept of a Messiah. If I’m not mistaken, they expected a king that would restore the Davidic kingdom and kick out the Romans.
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I heard a talk by arch bishop fulton sheen YouTube that basically said the samething…and im no doctor of the church.

As I deepen in my prodigal return to the cradle Catholicism of my youth…I find a marvelous mystery unraveling with each rosary I say and pray…I have profound intrigue…imho…and thats it…not doctrine…i think jesus was born into Jewery, I think that means mary and joe were jews…and one advantage I think I had by wandering in my own wilderness, of paganisms galore, is that my prodigal return comes with a practical experience of rather strong hellish torments- distance from God- that faustina talks about in her books.

But I’m no saint, and please don’t necessarily listen or put credence in my words…I’m just a fellow pilgrim catholic, on my own lot in life…I have no wish but good…and no bone in my body to lead anyone astray from thier ordained path Christ has for them …
 
imo said:
don’t you think a Jew having the 12 stars crown of the Apocalypse just a little bit ironic? I can’t imagine myself having a Shiva for my avatar and saying it is very normal to a Catholic to do so!
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I really don’t understand what you’re talking about. It’s perfectly clear that it’s the flag of the European Union, which most people would not associate with any biblical imagery. Dozens of national flags include a cross, but if somebody chose a national flag with a cross as their profile image, would you say that that person must be a Christian? The person could be an atheist but also a proud Swede or Dane, for example. I don’t know whether you really believe that @Kaninchen is actually a Catholic or whether you are just trying to provoke a certain response.
 
Perhaps they cannot believe at this point due to 1600 years of persecution by many Christians.
 
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The problem with your reasoning is that you are approaching this from the perspective of somebody who is already a Christian. You can bet that there are also Muslims who are asking how it can be that the Jews and the Christians do not believe that Muhammad was the messenger of Allah, since the truth of this idea is so obvious to them. There are probably also Jews who ask how Christians can possibly believe in Jesus, and there are certainly atheists who wonder how any of us can believe in anything at all.

I do not think that anybody has ever truly been convinced to believe in any religion based on evidence or rational argument alone. Take C.S. Lewis, for example: Jesus was bad, mad or the Son of God (or, liar, lunatic, or Lord). True, the gospels do not portray Jesus as evil or mendacious. Nor do they portray him as somebody who is psychotic. However, there are actually two logical conclusions that may be drawn from these premises with equal validity: either Jesus was God or the gospels are works of fiction. Similar with the ontological argument for the existence of God. If you are a believer already, it will seem obvious that there must be a being than which no greater can be conceived, because this merely confirms what you believe already. If you are not a believer, however, this is no more than a pious word game.

Of course, a small number of individual Jews will become Christians, just as a small number of individual Christians become Muslims or Buddhists. But there is no evidential or logical reason why the Jews as a people would be likely to become convinced of the claims of something that to them is simply a false religion.
 
This^. Their views on the Messiah and the End Times cannot be taken to be representative of real Judaism. Their views are more akin to the “political theology” typically found among certain Protestant sects, where modern politics are erroneously read through a lens of Biblical prophecy.

Their credibility falls away remarkably once you realise it’s nothing new. The early Christians identified the Roman Empire with the wh*re of Babylon and the medieval Christians identified the fall of Byzantium with the Apocalypse. This is just the modern incarnation of “which political entities are we gonna identify with the End Times this century?”
 
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Ugh.

Political theology is so abhorrent. Not least because it eagerly dehumanises entire nations of people in a bid to validate itself, but also because it takes both the Christian and Jewish religions and makes a mockery of them.
 
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OP’s original question is disturbing. It shows a complete lack of understanding of how each person is an individual. Jews have the ability to not believe in Catholicism the same way Catholics have the ability to not believe in the Jewish faith. Is it really that hard to understand?
 
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Could you please give some specifics? I wouldn’t want a ban from making an inadvertent mistake. I do apologise if you’ve already done this but 175+ posts is rather a lot to read to see if you have. Thanks!
 
TomH1 said:
Could you please give some specifics?
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He is referring to statements made by some in the early church that are used to support anti-Semitism today. Just google if you are interested, not hard to find.
 
Does that mean you would not have faith in your Church, let alone G-d, without the miracles and saints? In other words, is your faith dependent on (spectacular) miracles? And what about the “lesser,” more private miracles that occur in people’s everyday lives: do these not count toward faith?
 
TMC said:
He is referring to statements made by some in the early church that are used to support anti-Semitism today. Just google if you are interested, not hard to find.
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Thank you for telling to what he was referring. I did not know. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in looking for anything anti-Semitic.
 
It is just a curious choice of avatar, that’s all! But I will never display another religion symbol conscientiously as my profile picture!
 
Chrystostom’s statements are not the problem. The problem is those who quote them thinking that a saint “justifies” anti-Semitism when that’s not really the case at all.
 
imo said:
I mean, after 2,000 years, in their view, no prophets, no messiah, no temple… I can’t imagine how they just can’t see! Aren’t they just a little bit concerned that maybe just maybe Jesus was the one and they made a gigantic mistake ignoring him? It must at least bugs a little bit some Jews…
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I watched a movie the other day called Jeremiah starring Patrick Dempsey. I was watching the scene where he walks into the king’s court carrying an oxen yoke telling the king to submit to Nebuchadnezzar & he will live.

I’m thinking how is the king supposed to believe him? How would the people see this? Surrender to save his life? Accept slavery?

As the light for the world, what is God saying if you’re under the yoke of another nation? God prefers Babylon to Judah?

That’s a hard pill to swallow.
 
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