How can one be sure?

[Kendy]

There are many people who should perhaps examine their own thoughts, to ensure that they are not trying to adapt the Church to their pre-existing beliefs rather than the other way around, and it’s not always the cradle Catholics or so-called dissenters who are doing that. If a person keeps making negative comments about Vatican II, isn’t that a kind of dissent right there?

And to those who keep saying that “dissent” came in the 1960s as a result of Vatican II, I would suggest that Vatican II only worked out things that had been working their way through the Church for a long, long time - like centuries. It wasn’t anything that new. There have been diverging views on many things at all times during the entire 2000 year history of the Church. Christianity started out as a pretty fluid thing, after all. Even the Apostles and later disciples didn’t agree on everything. It took hundreds of years to set out “official” teachings, and a few were not even settled until the 20th century. That’s not to say that I personally “dissent” on anything, but I do try to focus on charity and compassion, rather than on whether other people are following every rule to the letter.

BTW, I also have a problem with the way Vatican II is treated on both sides. The conservatives treat it like some document from Satan, and the liberals, like a magna carta to do what they wish.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Do you know if Scott hahn’s methods are approved? She said, they are not, but I don’t know where to look. She said he uses typology, which condemned.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

This woman is showing her ignorance in this. I recently purchased a group of Catholic Study Bible works just released by Ignatius Press with the Imprimatur. The studies include the four Gospels, Acts, Romans, Galatians & Ephesians, both letters to the Corinthians, Philippians, Colossians, Philemon, all by Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch using the Revised Standard Version, Second Catholic Edition.

From what I understand Ignatius is releasing these studies, one by one, as soon as they are completed, working their way through the New Testament and then they will be going back through the Old Testament books. These are excellent Catholic Bible study guides, and a good place to start if you want a safe and Church approved study.

I know you feel you are being taught things that are exciting and are craving more of the same, but you, yourself told us you know there are problems with what this woman is teaching, mixing truth with deception, even if she doesn’t see it.

I still think that until you are more confirmed in your own faith and know that you can withstand sitting under this kind of teaching without harming your faith, you should walk away from it and maybe return at a later time if you so desire, when you can safely discern.

In the meantime, why don’t you give the above referenced Ignatius Bible studies a try? I got them through Amazon, I believe, if not maybe try a Catholic site or your local Catholic book store.

 

[Kendy]

This woman is showing her ignorance in this. I recently purchased a group of Catholic Study Bible works just released by Ignatius Press with the Imprimatur. The studies include the four Gospels, Acts, Romans, Galatians & Ephesians, both letters to the Corinthians, Philippians, Colossians, Philemon, all by Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch using the Revised Standard Version, Second Catholic Edition.

From what I understand Ignatius is releasing these studies, one by one, as soon as they are completed, working their way through the New Testament and then they will be going back through the Old Testament books. These are excellent Catholic Bible study guides, and a good place to start if you want a safe and Church approved study.

I know you feel you are being taught things that are exciting and are craving more of the same, but you, yourself told us you know there are problems with what this woman is teaching, mixing truth with deception, even if she doesn’t see it.

I still think that until you are more confirmed in your own faith and know that you can withstand sitting under this kind of teaching without harming your faith, you should walk away from it and maybe return at a later time if you so desire, when you can safely discern.

In the meantime, why don’t you give the above referenced Ignatius Bible studies a try? I got them through Amazon, I believe, if not maybe try a Catholic site or your local Catholic book store.

Thanks.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Do you know if Scott hahn’s methods are approved? She said, they are not, but I don’t know where to look. She said he uses typology, which condemned.

.

Just one more comment.

It just really peaves me when people like this say things that are not true and influence so many others who are gullible! She has an obvious ax to grind against the Church (and against converts to the Church who are willing and able to make a difference) and is using her position to poison as many minds as she can so she has more in her corner than she had before. And maybe she doesn’t even see this, but it is happening nonetheless and a lot of people are going to be completely sidetracked or possibly derailed in their faith journey.

There, just had to get that out. Sometimes these people drive me bonkers! :whacky:

God Bless Kendy, I hope you find peace in whatever decision you make!

 

[nobody]

Just one more comment.

It just really peaves me when people like this say things that are not true and influence so many others who are gullible! She has an obvious ax to grind against the Church (and against converts to the Church who are willing and able to make a difference) and is using her position to poison as many minds as she can so she has more in her corner than she had before. And maybe she doesn’t even see this, but it is happening nonetheless and a lot of people are going to be completely sidetracked or possibly derailed in their faith journey.

There, just had to get that out. Sometimes these people drive me bonkers! :whacky:

God Bless Kendy, I hope you find peace in whatever decision you make!

Were you saying this in response the the ctricism of Scott Hahn or the claim that typology is condemned. I was just about to ask about the validity and source of that statement (typology being condemned).

 

[Jeanette_L]

Were you saying this in response the the ctricism of Scott Hahn or the claim that typology is condemned. I was just about to ask about the validity and source of that statement (typology being condemned).

Both.

The Bible is filled with typology. I can understand the Church wanting to caution against personal interpretation of typological passages for good reason, just look at the myriad of denominations that spring up due to this, but the Church herself has interpreted typology throughout the Scriptures. Caution does not equal blanket condemnation.

And Scott Hahn does not teach anything new in this or any other area. He is just reminding the faithful Catholics of the Church’s rich teachings that already exist and brings them to us in an exciting and refreshing way, encouraging us to tap into what already preceeded us in the treasuries of the centuries. (I’m a greatful fan, if you can’t tell )

 

[starling]

If you really don’t like what you’re getting there, would you consider just not going anymore? Nothing wrong with asking questions and with constructive discussion, but if it becomes a matter of confrontation, why even go there? Have you ever really found that anyone can be convinced to change their mind about anything in matters of religion, unless they change it on their own?

The sensible thing to do would be to find some other activity. Your time might be better spent just in prayer and contemplation in some nice old dim church or grotto, maybe doing the Stations of the Cross, or just contemplative meditation, for a while. Sometimes we can study things too much, and there might be more benefit in just letting ourselves feel it and live it, rather than study it. We could all learn a lot more about the true essence of what it means to be a Catholic by volunteering for some work of charity instead of attending classes.

I don’t think parish shopping is a good idea, personally. This is just another form of Protestantism, when you stop to think about it.

We have the Church we have, complete with all of its different movements and points of view. Not a single one of us can remake it to fit only our own personal view.

 

[Kendy]

If you really don’t like what you’re getting there, would you consider just not going anymore? Nothing wrong with asking questions and with constructive discussion, but if it becomes a matter of confrontation, why even go there? Have you ever really found that anyone can be convinced to change their mind about anything in matters of religion, unless they change it on their own?

The sensible thing to do would be to find some other activity. Your time might be better spent just in prayer and contemplation in some nice old dim church or grotto, maybe doing the Stations of the Cross, or just contemplative meditation, for a while. Sometimes we can study things too much, and there might be more benefit in just letting ourselves feel it and live it, rather than study it. We could all learn a lot more about the true essence of what it means to be a Catholic by volunteering for some work of charity instead of attending classes.

I don’t think parish shopping is a good idea, personally. This is just another form of Protestantism, when you stop to think about it.

We have the Church we have, complete with all of its different movements and points of view. Not a single one of us can remake it to fit only our own personal view.

Starling,

I think each of us have our own gifts. I NEED to study. It’s the way I am wired. That’s not everyone.

BTW, I took the time to read some of your other posts, and while I dont always agree I think your moderation is a breath of fresh air. I, too, am becoming tired of the tattle-telling culture, and I have decided that unless there are dead bodies, molested children, or something that grave, I am not running to tell the bishop.

However, I think you are overestimating how much of the “fundamentalist” rise is a protestant movement. I was raised catholic in a 90% catholic country although I left for about 10 years, and many of the fiery catholics I know have never left. One of my friends gets asked if she’s a convert because she’s so passionate. I think there many of of us who imagine what we think the church can be (I think Pope John Paul II was one of these people), and we want to change it. We see so many catholics walking away because they are drawn by enthusiastic protestant churches, and have no sense of having an authentic faith with the catholic church. And I think we want to bring life back into our church, not to mention a bit of orthodoxy. I honestly feel like the American church has been overwhelmed by secularists, and that it’s hurting our church. Way too many of us are lukewarm about God, and God is someone to bne passionated about.

I have several friends who are a former catholic, and now evangelicals, and they all comment on how I have changed her perspective of what it could mean to be catholic. All these people left the church because they wanted to feel connected to God, and to believe that you can be catholic and a serious Christian at the same time. Don’t you think it’s sad that so many people feel that way.

Kendy

PS. I think a year of RCIA is actually too short.

 

[KathleenElsie]

When something bothers us, we vote or express our displeasure with the situation using our feet, we always have the option to leave. Don’t like a store, movie, specific brand of goods or in this case a Bible study. This bible study is one of the things IMHO that walking away is the best thing for you in your walk with Holy Mother Church.

Maybe you could suggest another study that compares the CCC & traditions to specific bible verses and what the ECFs wrote about in the early years prior to the Bible being physically written down.