How can people say homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone

[Thorolfr]

Animals can’t talk. So how does one determine if they are homosexual?

They might be bisexual.

There are hundreds of examples of non-reproductive sex among animals, from albatrosses to koalas. But none of these examples can make people quite so uncomfortable as bonobos do. Two bonobo females having sex looks very different than two female albatrosses sitting placidly on their nest. Bonobo sex looks human.

These primates are so closely related to people that they share 98.7 percent of humans’ DNA. Along with chimpanzees, they are humans’ closest living relatives. Yet, barely anyone knows what a bonobo is. In a survey by our Hominoid Psychology Research Group survey, only 15 percent of people who had the highest level of education (university) knew that bonobos are great apes. Spell check does not recognize ‘bonobo’ as a word. But in the debate over whether gay marriage, or any other non-reproductive sexual relationship, is “natural,” no other animal holds more importance.

Homosexuality in bonobos is not cultural. When primatolgist Frans de Waal first saw the outlandish sexual acts of bonobos, other scientists remarked that the behavior must have arisen because those bonobos were locked in a zoo. But data gathered from the wild — and wild-born bonobos in captivity — over the past two decades has demonstrated that bonobo sexuality is just part of who they are.

The two bonobos Lodja and Mwanda were part of a study we conducted at Lola ya Bonobo sanctuary in Congo. Like many bonobos at the sanctuary and in the wild, these individuals practiced g-g rubbing, where two female bonobos rub their clitorises together, penis fencing between males, and a myriad of other socio-sexual behavior.

But what set Mwanda and Lodja apart, as well as the other six bonobos in the study, was that they were infants, each younger than 4 years old. They were orphans of the bushmeat trade, and were born in the wild. At Lola ya Bonobo, they were raised with other infants and human substitute mothers. There were no adult bonobos to “teach” them sexual behavior.

Sex for fun in bonobos, and many other animals, plays a social function. There is stress-relief sex, make-up sex and random hook-up sex.

livescience.com/44464-bonobo-homosexuality-natural.html

 

[oldcatholicguy]

By spiritual aspect…could you mean “choice”.

And really, how can you prove that it is supported by nature. Here you’re making a positive claim about homosexuality which does actually require proof…

Um, I’m pretty sure the fact that animals engage in homosexual behavior in the wild and that this has been observed and recorded by scientists would qualify as proof in this matter.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

And now we are back to you thinking that all homosexuals are men. I guess that’s because if we look at the STD rate among homosexual women and find that it is lower than the STD rate among heterosexuals as a whole and much lower than the STD rate among heterosexual men you’d have to conclude that your argument is invalid.

By your standards, one would have to conclude being male is harmful to society since men seem to be the common factor in the populations that have the highest rate of STD transfer.

We just had some earth shaking evidence provided a few posts ago that seem to suggest that STD rates among homosexual women it much higher that we used to think.

See post #355

 

[Catholic13]

They might be bisexual.

livescience.com/44464-bonobo-homosexuality-natural.html

so having sex means sexual attraction?

 

[cena]

For one thing, the pagans referred to here exchanged or abandoned what was natural for them for what was unnatural for them. This implies that they were heterosexuals who were doing something against their nature. But if homosexuality is natural for a gay man, for example, he wouldn’t be abandoning what was natural for him. In fact, having sex with a woman would be unnatural for him or against his nature. Paul is only talking about those he considers to be otherwise heterosexually inclined then engaging in homosexual activity.

No one in Paul’s time thought people were naturally inclined to homosexuality. So you are saying it is wrong for a gay man to later become bi and marry a woman because that is unnatural?

If a person is sexually attracted to animals and has been all his life is that natural? No because humans are not made to be sexually compatible with animals. This is the problem with homosexual actions. Men and women were made for the other sex.

 

[Thorolfr]

so having sex means sexual attraction?

I suspect that there has to be some sexual attraction in order to have sex, especially for men. Most men I know have a hard time getting an erection and having sex if there is no sexual attraction.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

We just had some earth shaking evidence provided a few posts ago that seem to suggest that STD rates among homosexual women it much higher that we used to think.

See post #355

“Seem to suggest”? I guess that’s one way of saying “doesn’t actually disprove your claim.” Or did I miss the part in the article which stated that the spread rate of STDs among homosexual women is higher than among heterosexuals?

 

[Catholic13]

I suspect that there has to be some sexual attraction in order to have sex, especially for men. Most men I know have a hard time getting an erection and having sex if there is no sexual attraction.

I thought we were talking about animals?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

No one in Paul’s time thought people were naturally inclined to homosexuality. So you are saying it is wrong for a gay man to later become bi and marry a woman because that is unnatural?

If a person is sexually attracted to animals and has been all his life is that natural? No because humans are not made to be sexually compatible with animals. This is the problem with homosexual actions. Men and women were made for the other sex.

There is a long history of acceptance by at least the Greeks of homosexuality being natural. They are usually the first ones cited by those arguing for “gay marriage” due to their acceptance of the idea of homosexuality being natural.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Um, I’m pretty sure the fact that animals engage in homosexual behavior in the wild and that this has been observed and recorded by scientists would qualify as proof in this matter.

I read that study. Very interesting. Seems like Giraffes are the most “promiscuous” in that manner.

Actually animals do not engage in homosexual behavior. They “hump”.

A top notch dog trainer was asked why animals do that and if it had anything to do with homosexuality. He said: “They hump because they are stupid, horny animals. If the opposite sex is not available they hump the same sex. If that is not available they hump the fence post.”

If you want to present that study as proof…then you are proving that gay people “hump”,

I cannot understand why any self respecting gay person would want to justify his or her intimacy with the behavior of lower animals…

 

[Thorolfr]

I thought we were talking about animals?

I’m sure that there must be sexual attraction and sexual arousal there too. The article I posted about bonobos mentions “penis fencing between males”. That would be kind of difficult to do with a couple of limp ones.

 

[cena]

Um, I’m pretty sure the fact that animals engage in homosexual behavior in the wild and that this has been observed and recorded by scientists would qualify as proof in this matter.

Some animals practice incest, murder, etc. That does not make these things okay

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

There is a long history of acceptance by at least the Greeks of homosexuality being natural. They are usually the first ones cited by those arguing for “gay marriage” due to their acceptance of the idea of homosexuality being natural.

The Greeks accepted homosexuality and glorified it some cases but they could never prove it was natural. They honored and accepted homosexual unions but nowhere in ancient Greek law were such unions acknowledged as a marriage.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Some animals practice incest, murder, etc. That does not make these things okay

The other poster is arguing that homosexuality isn’t innate and that heterosexuality is (i.e. everyone is born heterosexual, no one is born homosexual). The fact that animals engage in homosexual behavior counters the innate argument. Basing this thread on morality pretty much went out the door pages ago.

But, you are correct. What animals do or don’t do does not actually have any real bearing on morality since animals are amoral.

 

[cena]

The problem is that there exists no truly objective means of determining whether a person is innately homosexual. One cannot take a blood test or DNA test to prove that he or she is “gay.” We must depend entirely upon a person’s claim that they are homosexual.

Men and women are sexually attracted to one another because sex is how the human race continues. That is natural.You will never have that with homosexuals.

When it comes to actions, it does not matter whether someone is “straight” or “gay.” If two straight men have sex that is just as wrong as two homosexuals.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

The Greeks accepted homosexuality and glorified it some cases but they could never prove it was natural. They honored and accepted homosexual unions but nowhere in ancient Greek law were such unions acknowledged as a marriage.

Unfortunately for you the need to prove it was natural really doesn’t apply since the other poster claimed no one by Paul’s time accepted homosexuality as natural. Thank you for providing a supporting statement that they did accept it as natural.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Men and women are sexually attracted to one another because sex is how the human race continues. That is natural.You will never have that with homosexuals.

When it comes to actions, it does not matter whether someone is “straight” or “gay.” If two straight men have sex that is just as wrong as two homosexuals.

And according to the other poster those two “straight” men are actually “gay” because the sexual act can’t be separated from the actors.

 

[Catholic13]

Actually animals do not engage in homosexual behavior. They “hump”.

A top notch dog trainer was asked why animals do that and if it had anything to do with homosexuality. He said: “They hump because they are stupid, horny animals. If the opposite sex is not available they hump the same sex. If that is not available they hump the fence post.”

That’s what I was going to point out but OldCatholicGuy wouldn’t answer my questions.

It’s true…animals try to have sex with everything. My dog even humps my leg and the couch. Does that mean he is couchsexual? It’s also a dominance thing with dogs.

There is no such thing as homosexual behavior in animals. It’s another ridiculous lie by gays. Although it isn’t as ridiculous as “homosexuality doesn’t hurt anyone”

 

[cena]

The Greeks accepted homosexuality and glorified it some cases but they could never prove it was natural. They honored and accepted homosexual unions but nowhere in ancient Greek law were such unions acknowledged as a marriage.

The Greeks recognized marriage as an institution for bearing children and passing down property for the good of the polis. They valued it so much that if a married women committed adultery she could receive the death penalty. The punishment for rape (for the rapist)was only a fine.

Plus the Greeks worshiped gods that committed incest so again why we are looking up to them does not make any sense to me.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

That’s what I was going to point out but OldCatholicGuy wouldn’t answer my questions.

It’s true…animals try to have sex with everything. My dog even humps my leg and the couch. Does that mean he is couchsexual? It’s also a dominance thing with dogs.

There is no such thing as homosexual behavior in animals. It’s another ridiculous lie by gays. Although it isn’t as ridiculous as “homosexuality doesn’t hurt anyone”

I’m pretty sure I answered your questions, you just didn’t like the answers.