How can Protestants be forgiven for sins? (Please, any adivce appreciated)

[steve_b]

You don’t recommend praying for the forgiveness of those who reject your Church? I pray all of the time for those who are outside of my Church. I pray for my Muslims constantly for the sin they’re living in without knowing it.

dronald,

to focus on a particular point

what part of this link and all it’s internal links is not getting accross? #24

Jesus established only ONE Church on Peter and the apostles in union with Peter.

Only ONE Church on the planet qualifies.

The Catholic Church.

 

[steve_b]

I think you’d like me to comment on post 24 so I’ll touch on that a bit:

Indeed you explained where the word “Catholic” comes from. No doubt the Coptic Church considers themselves “Catholic” as does the other Orthodox Church’s and even Evangelical and Lutheran Church’s by the strictest meaning of the word. So I don’t know how exactly you can state that somehow Rome must be the best example of which Church is truly “Catholic.” Though I assume it can be found in your end point:

Cutting to the chase, no Protestant organization regardless of stripe qualifies as Catholic. Protestantism is a theory invented in the 16th century and morphed into one of histories great heresies
catholic.com/tract/the-great-heresies

Re: The “Orthodox Church”

"We are increasingly conscious of the fact that an Orthodox Church does not really exist,” he contends. “At the present stage, it does not seem that Constantinople is yet capable of integrating the different autocephalous Orthodox Churches; there are doubts about its primacy of honor, especially in Moscow.”

From: zenit.org/articles/the-crisis-of-ecumenism-according-to-cardinal-kasper/

Plus,

please show me where “Orthodox Church” 1st appears

• in history, in writing, properly referenced.

dronald:

I am interested in some of your interpretations of some Bible passages, I was thinking of making a post about it:

1 Timothy 1:4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship

what were you going to do with this?
**

Warning against False Teachers**

3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedo′nia, remain at Ephesus that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, 4 nor to occupy themselves with myths and endless genealogies**(“1tim RSVCE - Salutation - Paul, an apostle of Christ - Bible Gateway”)] which promote speculations rather than the divine trainingc] that is in faith; 5 whereas the aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith. 6 Certain persons by swerving from these have wandered away into vain discussion, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make assertions.
8 Now we know that the law is good, if any one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 immoral persons, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
dronold:

Also the bolded:

1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to** preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.**

2 And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. 2 **For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. **…

3 :18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 21** So let no one boast in men. **For all things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or **Cephas **or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

What do you think of all of this in relation to your statement?

What do I think?

I know Jesus started the Catholic Church on Peter and the apostles in union with Peter. And in extension all those in the future in union with the chair of Peter. Anything else is NOT His Church. THAT’S why I put together a condensed history to show that very point. #[24 (https://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14804336&postcount=24)

Division from that Church is condemned. I showed the references to that ( from scripture, and the ECF’s) all properly referenced.

 

[LutheranScholar]

dronald,

to focus on a particular point

what part of this link and all it’s internal links is not getting accross? #24

Jesus established only ONE Church on Peter and the apostles in union with Peter.

Only ONE Church on the planet qualifies.

The Catholic Church.

Of course that is a claim that Roman Catholics would make in regards to their own church, while other churches make similar claims, equally adhered to by their followers. I would simply refer to Christ’s own words: " Where two or three are gathered in My Name, there I am with them." The disciples also told the Lord of a man apart from their group who was casting out demons in Jesus’ Name to stop because he didn’t follow with them. Jesus’ response? " Do not forbid him, for whoever is not against you is for you."

When a Protestant uses the Sacrament of Confession, he or she is not confessing to the priest or minister, but to God in Whose Name absolution is pronounced by the priest or minister. God’s mercies and His justice can’t be limited by a hierarchy, nor can anyone other than God determine who will or won’t go to Heaven. That’s fairly plain from the Lutheran Confessions.

 

[steve_b]

Of course that is a claim that Roman Catholics would make in regards to their own church, while other churches make similar claims, equally adhered to by their followers. I would simply refer to Christ’s own words: " Where two or three are gathered in My Name, there I am with them." The disciples also told the Lord of a man apart from their group who was casting out demons in Jesus’ Name to stop because he didn’t follow with them. Jesus’ response? " Do not forbid him, for whoever is not against you is for you."

When a Protestant uses the Sacrament of Confession, he or she is not confessing to the priest or minister, but to God in Whose Name absolution is pronounced by the priest or minister. God’s mercies and His justice can’t be limited by a hierarchy, nor can anyone other than God determine who will or won’t go to Heaven. That’s fairly plain from the Lutheran Confessions.

For clarification,

The Catholic Church is Our Lord’s Church that He established in the 1st century on Peter and the apostles in union with Peter. And to His Church whose chair and see of Peter is in Rome, Jesus gave all His promises to His Church. Apart from His Church, the ONE and only Church He established, there is no salvation.
You can see that all laid out in #40

Therefore, Once a person becomes knowledgeable of the truth, then they need to become Catholic and remain Catholic or they have no salvation.

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
**
335 Cf. Cyprian, Ep.** 73.21L 3,1169; De unit.L 4,509-536.
**336 LG 14; cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5.
**

**
**

 

[dronald]

What do I think?

I know Jesus started the Catholic Church on Peter and the apostles in union with Peter. And in extension all those in the future in union with the chair of Peter. Anything else is NOT His Church. THAT’S why I put together a condensed history to show that very point. #24

Division from that Church is condemned. I showed the references to that ( from scripture, and the ECF’s) all properly referenced.

And yet this point seems lost on Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians. I wonder if Paul had it in the back of his head to clarify that “I follow Cephas” is actually a really great statement and everyone should adhere to it better.

The fact is that Paul knew that these divisions would be caused by people claiming to follow certain Apostles. According to Paul, the Catholic Church claiming to follow Peter is probably one of the biggest obstacles to unity. Until we all admit to following Christ instead of following the “endless genealogies” that Paul warns us about then there will be no unity.

It makes sense that even the different branches of “Catholicism” that is the Orthodox and Roman Churches are split because of their focus on certain Apostles. Paul condemns this line of thinking and calls us to follow Christ. “Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

 

[Wannano]

For clarification,

The Catholic Church is Our Lord’s Church that He established in the 1st century on Peter and the apostles in union with Peter. And to His Church whose chair and see of Peter is in Rome, Jesus gave all His promises to His Church. Apart from His Church, the ONE and only Church He established, there is no salvation.
You can see that all laid out in #40

Therefore, Once a person becomes knowledgeable of the truth, then they need to become Catholic and remain Catholic or they have no salvation.

**
**

I have no idea why other threads are shut down so soon because they are off topic.

How can Protestants be forgiven for sins? Well, you have the one and only answer apparently, that is simply, they must join the Catholic Church.

This thread may as well be shut down now because it has been answered with apparently the only true answer. Anything else will be off topic!

 

[MichaelP3]

I have no idea why other threads are shut down so soon because they are off topic.

How can Protestants be forgiven for sins? Well, you have the one and only answer apparently, that is simply, they must join the Catholic Church.

This thread may as well be shut down now because it has been answered with apparently the only true answer. Anything else will be off topic!

I was wondering the exact same thing

 

[LutheranScholar]

I have no idea why other threads are shut down so soon because they are off topic.

How can Protestants be forgiven for sins? Well, you have the one and only answer apparently, that is simply, ***they must join the Catholic Church.

---

This thread may as well be shut down now because it has been answered with apparently the only true answer. Anything else will be off topic!

That does seem to be where a lot of these Protestant threads tend to go, isn’t it? Not forgetting the fire and brimstone we are given when we choose to stand steadfast in our own Confessions. Psst, by the way, we actually do hold the one true faith as we affirm the Athanasian Creed, which gives a definitive answer as to what a Catholic actually is
bookofconcord.org/creeds.php.

 

[Wannano]

That does seem to be where a lot of these Protestant threads tend to go, isn’t it? Not forgetting the fire and brimstone we are given when we choose to stand steadfast in our own Confessions. Psst, by the way, we actually do hold the one true faith as we affirm the Athanasian Creed, which gives a definitive answer as to what a Catholic actually is
bookofconcord.org/creeds.php.

 

[Reuben_J]

I have no idea why other threads are shut down so soon because they are off topic.

How can Protestants be forgiven for sins? Well, you have the one and only answer apparently, that is simply, they must join the Catholic Church.

This thread may as well be shut down now because it has been answered with apparently the only true answer. Anything else will be off topic!

A Catholic does not have any choice, except for some minor exception, but to say that. It is their core belief. And I think the question of the thread is pretty well been answered.

Protestants of course can join in this topic by looking at the topic generally but as for this thread the OP has given his situation as an example with a view to get the Catholic (name removed by moderator)ut, if I understand correctly.

 

[Wannano]

A Catholic does not have any choice, except for some minor exception, but to say that. It is their core belief. And I think the question of the thread is pretty well been answered.

Protestants of course can join in this topic by looking at the topic generally but as for this thread the OP has given his situation as an example with a view to get the Catholic (name removed by moderator)ut, if I understand correctly.

It is a core belief of Roman Catholicism that for a Protestant to receive forgiveness for his sins and attain salvation from God he must join the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[Don_Ruggero]

It is a core belief of Roman Catholicism that for a Protestant to receive forgiveness for his sins and attain salvation from God he must join the Roman Catholic Church?

The Council Fathers at Vatican II were quite clear in their decree.

The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects,** have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation** which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

To reiterate: *The Spirit of Christ has used the Reformed Christians as a means of salvation
*
If you would know the mind of the Church, do NOT look to posters on the Catholic Answers Forum…look straight to the Holy See.
Look to the Magisterium of the Church.
Look to the Church’s theologians. They would not be anywhere near the thought of many of the posters on this forum who call themselves Catholic but in fact are very far removed from where we, as a Church, are in 2017. Rather they are like people from another era…which we have left behind.

Pope Saint John Paul II was quite forthright when he wrote in his encyclical on this topic:

The Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism refers to the Communities to which these Christians belong as “Churches and Ecclesial Communities that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church”. This broadening of vocabulary is indicative of a significant change in attitudes. There is an increased awareness that we all belong to Christ.

Beyond the Second Vatican Council and its acknowledgement of ecumenism as an imperative for the Church going forward

• Look at Pope Saint John Paul II who proclaimed Martin Luther as Witness to the Gospel
• Look to Pope Benedict and his remarks in his pilgrimage to Erfurt, in memory of Martin Luther; look at the Pope’s embrace of Lutherans throughout his life and pontificate. He was not telling them that there only hope for salvation was to become Catholic.
• In fact, Pope Benedict repeated in his apostolic voyage to Germany the rejection of the so-called “ecumenism of the return.”
• Look to Pope Francis, who is leading the world’s bishops and the whole Church in our joint commemoration with Reformed Christians of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. This is a historic moment for ALL of us who are Christians
• Look at From Conflict to Communion as well as Declaration on the Way
• Look to PCPCU…that is where the orientation for Catholics regarding ecumenism today is found. The Holy See will provide how texts of the past are to be read and interpreted…not lay Catholics who are not theologians providing their own ideas

Any Catholic who wishes to cite documents of the past without interpreting them through the present day Magisterium is acting faithlessly to our living Magisterium.

As Pope Saint John Paul II wrote regarding the tragedy and travesty that was Marcel Lefebvre:

The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete and contradictory notion of Tradition. Incomplete, because it does not take sufficiently into account the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, "comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. /…/ But especially contradictory is a notion of Tradition which opposes the universal Magisterium of the Church possessed by the Bishop of Rome and the Body of Bishops.

Sadly, the tendency that the Pope condemned is to be found beyond Lefebvre and his followers…in those Catholics who do not instantly turn to the contemporary Magisterium to apply correctly the documents of the past.

 

[Reuben_J]

It is a core belief of Roman Catholicism that for a Protestant to receive forgiveness for his sins and attain salvation from God he must join the Roman Catholic Church?

Ideally yes. Then you can go for the Sacrament of Reconciliation and having the priest to absolve you of your sins.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I would simply refer to Christ’s own words: " Where two or three are gathered in My Name, there I am with them." The disciples also told the Lord of a man apart from their group who was casting out demons in Jesus’ Name to stop because he didn’t follow with them. Jesus’ response? " Do not forbid him, for whoever is not against you is for you."

Indeed

God’s mercies and His justice can’t be limited by a hierarchy, nor can anyone other than God determine who will or won’t go to Heaven. That’s fairly plain from the Lutheran Confessions.

And it is plain from the Magisterium of the Catholic Church…when the Magisterium is being faithfully represented and is not being obfuscated for purely confessional motivations.

God has not bound Himself to the sacraments and can give mercy and grace according to His pleasure.

It is worth quoting here From Conflict to Communion, because the attitude that is condemned therein concerning the past is still to be found among Catholics today – those who have not caught up with where the ecumenical movement is taking us…or the guilt we readily confess as Catholics relative to our shared past with regard to other Christians.

1. How theologians presented their theological convictions in the battle for public opinion is quite another matter. In the sixteenth century, Catholics and Lutherans frequently not only misunderstood but also exaggerated and caricatured their opponents in order to make them look ridiculous. They repeatedly violated the eighth commandment, which prohibits bearing false witness against one’s neighbor. Even if the opponents were sometimes intellectually fair to one another, their willingness to hear the other and to take his concerns seriously was insufficient. The controversialists wanted to refute and overcome their opponents, often deliberately exacerbating conflicts rather than seeking solutions by looking for what they held in common. Prejudices and misunderstandings played a great role in the characterization of the other side. Oppositions were constructed and handed down to the next generation. Here both sides have every reason to regret and lament the way in which they conducted their debates. Both Lutherans and Catholics bear the guilt that needs to be openly confessed in the remembrance of the events of 500 years ago.

 

[Jason_Firestone]

Matthew 19:16-17
Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life? “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments. Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, "‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony. honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

1741 Liberation and salvation. By his glorious Cross Christ has won salvation for all men. He redeemed them from the sin that held them in bondage. “For freedom Christ has set us free.” In him we have communion with the “truth that makes us free.” The Holy Spirit has been given to us and, as the Apostle teaches, “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” Already we glory in the “liberty of the children of God.”

Vatican II, Constitution on the Church :
17. "17. Only in freedom can man direct himself toward goodness. Our contemporaries make much of this freedom and pursue it eagerly; and rightly to be sure. Often however they foster it perversely as a license for doing whatever pleases them, even if it is evil. For its part, authentic freedom is an exceptional sign of the divine image within man. For God has willed that man remain “under the control of his own decisions,”(12) so that he can seek his Creator spontaneously, and come freely to utter and blissful perfection through loyalty to Him. Hence man’s dignity demands that he act according to a knowing and free choice that is personally motivated and prompted from within, not under blind internal impulse nor by mere external pressure. Man achieves such dignity when, emancipating himself from all captivity to passion, he pursues his goal in a spontaneous choice of what is good, and procures for himself through effective and skilful action, apt helps to that end. Since man’s freedom has been damaged by sin, only by the aid of God’s grace can he bring such a relationship with God into full flower. Before the judgement seat of God each man must render an account of his own life, whether he has done good or evil.

19: “Undeniably, those who willfully shut out God from their hearts and try to dodge religious questions are not following the dictates of their consciences, and hence are not free of blame; yet believers themselves frequently bear some responsibility for this situation. For, taken as a whole, atheism is not a spontaneous development but stems from a variety of causes, including a critical reaction against religious beliefs, and in some places against the Christian religion in particular. Hence believers can have more than a little to do with the birth of atheism. To the extent that they neglect their own training in the faith, or teach erroneous doctrine, or are deficient in their religious, moral or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than reveal the authentic face of God and religion.”

22 " … "All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way.(31) For, since Christ died for all men,(32) and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.

Such is the mystery of man, and it is a great one, as seen by believers in the light of Christian revelation. Through Christ and in Christ, the riddles of sorrow and death grow meaningful. Apart from His Gospel, they overwhelm us. Christ has risen, destroying death by His death; He has lavished life upon us(33) so that, as sons in the Son, we can cry out in the Spirit; Abba, Father.
**
29."9. Since all men possess a rational soul and are created in God’s likeness, since they have the same nature and origin, have been redeemed by Christ and enjoy the same divine calling and destiny**, the basic equality of all must receive increasingly greater recognition.

CCC: 985 Baptism is the first and chief sacrament of the forgiveness of sins: it unites us to Christ, who died and rose, and gives us the Holy Spirit.

The answer is a resounding “yes”, and in fact the Catholic Church herself, in many ways, and many places, teaches that fact.

 

[Reuben_J]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

1741 Liberation and salvation. By his glorious Cross Christ has won salvation for all men. He redeemed them from the sin that held them in bondage. “For freedom Christ has set us free.” In him we have communion with the “truth that makes us free.” The Holy Spirit has been given to us and, as the Apostle teaches, “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” Already we glory in the “liberty of the children of God.”

CCC: 985 Baptism is the first and chief sacrament of the forgiveness of sins: it unites us to Christ, who died and rose, and gives us the Holy Spirit.

The answer is a resounding “yes”, and in fact the Catholic Church herself, in many ways, and many places, teaches that fact.

You probably want to read the Catechism with #846.

Catechism of the Catholic Church #846
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

 

[Wannano]

The Council Fathers at Vatican II were quite clear in their decree.

To reiterate: *The Spirit of Christ has used the Reformed Christians as a means of salvation
*
If you would know the mind of the Church, do NOT look to posters on the Catholic Answers Forum…look straight to the Holy See.
Look to the Magisterium of the Church.
Look to the Church’s theologians. They would not be anywhere near the thought of many of the posters on this forum who call themselves Catholic but in fact are very far removed from where we, as a Church, are in 2017. Rather they are like people from another era…which we have left behind.

Pope Saint John Paul II was quite forthright when he wrote in his encyclical on this topic:

The Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism refers to the Communities to which these Christians belong as “Churches and Ecclesial Communities that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church”. This broadening of vocabulary is indicative of a significant change in attitudes. There is an increased awareness that we all belong to Christ.

Beyond the Second Vatican Council and its acknowledgement of ecumenism as an imperative for the Church going forward

• Look at Pope Saint John Paul II who proclaimed Martin Luther as Witness to the Gospel
• Look to Pope Benedict and his remarks in his pilgrimage to Erfurt, in memory of Martin Luther; look at the Pope’s embrace of Lutherans throughout his life and pontificate. He was not telling them that there only hope for salvation was to become Catholic.
• In fact, Pope Benedict repeated in his apostolic voyage to Germany the rejection of the so-called “ecumenism of the return.”
• Look to Pope Francis, who is leading the world’s bishops and the whole Church in our joint commemoration with Reformed Christians of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. This is a historic moment for ALL of us who are Christians
• Look at From Conflict to Communion as well as Declaration on the Way
• Look to PCPCU…that is where the orientation for Catholics regarding ecumenism today is found. The Holy See will provide how texts of the past are to be read and interpreted…not lay Catholics who are not theologians providing their own ideas

Any Catholic who wishes to cite documents of the past without interpreting them through the present day Magisterium is acting faithlessly to our living Magisterium.

As Pope Saint John Paul II wrote regarding the tragedy and travesty that was Marcel Lefebvre:

Sadly, the tendency that the Pope condemned is to be found beyond Lefebvre and his followers…in those Catholics who do not instantly turn to the contemporary Magisterium to apply correctly the documents of the past.

Thankyou for this clarification. Yes, I am increasingly becoming aware that many Catholic posters on CAF are not reliable fountains of knowledge of current CC determinations. I find it very interesting because many of these same posters like to point out the perceived deficiencies of the Protestant churches by stating how superior it is to have the Magisterium to give a Spirit led unified voice to practical Christian living. But when they do not submit to the current Magisterium and want to enforce the old understandings of the past have they themselves not become the modern schismatics causing dissension within the Church?

How does the contemporary Church handle schmismatics? Do the anathemas of Trent still apply to modern schismatics?

 

[Wannano]

You probably want to read the Catechism with #846.

Catechism of the Catholic Church #846
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

Hi Reuben, what scripture is used as a basis for the above? I agree that the church is necessary for salvation in that we were given the Great Commission. The result of our faithfulness to the command to teach all nations and to baptize the converts is the church, that is, people who believe on Christs message (the message contained in your logo)

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi Reuben, what scripture is used as a basis for the above? I agree that the church is necessary for salvation in that we were given the Great Commission. The result of our faithfulness to the command to teach all nations and to baptize the converts is the church, that is, people who believe on Christs message (the message contained in your logo)

Hi. I would not like to bring this up but I would lie to you which I don’t want to, if I didn’t put this specific belief of the Catholic Church for clarification. So I am just saying it as it is. Actually since I began to learn to talk I was taught that the way to salvation is through the only way, the only door - Baptism and the Church (meaning Catholic Church). That pretty much has not changed and any red blooded Catholic would tell you so, of course notwithstanding the various ecuminical activities that are going on in the Church, and the caveat as to how other Christians can be saved as well.

To answer your question, briefly - Jesus left us a Church, that’s why. There are many scriptural basis to that especially along the lines of Peter. I would not go into that as it may not be the purpose of this thread, which really, I was trying to encourage the OP.

To go baptizing people comes out of being the Church, not just the poeple, but the Church administered by the apostles. There have to be some basis of what Christians do and these are formulated by the Church through her human leaders from the Pope downward who was given the key.

Thus the way to salvation is actually from the grace that is already available - the Church and everything that comes out of it, in a nutshell.

Now, the Catholic teaching also says that those who are outside this Church may be saved too because the grace that is abound from the cross which was already confected. Even without knowing Jesus and the Gospel, people can be saved by the mercy of God because of the cross, though humanly speaking it can be difficult.

So, thus we have the Church - it is all there - the way to salvation.

 

[Wannano]

Hi. I would not like to bring this up but I would lie to you which I don’t want to, if I didn’t put this specific belief of the Catholic Church for clarification. So I am just saying it as it is. Actually since I began to learn to talk I was taught that the way to salvation is through the only way, the only door - Baptism and the Church (meaning Catholic Church). That pretty much has not changed and any red blooded Catholic would tell you so, of course notwithstanding the various ecuminical activities that are going on in the Church, and the caveat as to how other Christians can be saved as well.

To answer your question, briefly - Jesus left us a Church, that’s why. There are many scriptural basis to that especially along the lines of Peter. I would not go into that as it may not be the purpose of this thread, which really, I was trying to encourage the OP.

To go baptizing people comes out of being the Church, not just the poeple, but the Church administered by the apostles. There have to be some basis of what Christians do and these are formulated by the Church through her human leaders from the Pope downward who was given the key.

Thus the way to salvation is actually from the grace that is already available - the Church and everything that comes out of it, in a nutshell.

Now, the Catholic teaching also says that those who are outside this Church may be saved too because the grace that is abound from the cross which was already confected. Even without knowing Jesus and the Gospel, people can be saved by the mercy of God because of the cross, though humanly speaking it can be difficult.

So, thus we have the Church - it is all there - the way to salvation.

I don’t want to go off track either, however, I will quote one important verse for your consideration. Acts 4:12 Peter speaking of Jesus Christ says, “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”