How can the Vatican say that Muslims worship the same God as we do?

[Giovanni]

Didn’t King David, the ancestor of our Lord, have a man killed because he slept with the man’s wife?

You are sidetracking here from the original post, but to answer your question, the two men are totally different, you only need to read Psalm 51 to understand that David’s great sin was followed by redemption, because of his love for God.
Muhammed had many men women and children killed, for the sole purpose of domination and intimidation.
You have to understand Islams message, yes they believe in one god, but Islam is antichristian, and it is so because of the false prophet’s message, look at it’s fruit, and how many have been deceived.
But remember, only God knows a man’s heart, and to know who is going to heaven or hell, it is up to God to decide. So I will never condemn, judge or speculate on who is saved or not.

 

[colliric]

You are sidetracking here from the original post, but to answer your question, the two men are totally different, you only need to read Psalm 51 to understand that David’s great sin was followed by redemption, because of his love for God.
Muhammed had many men women and children killed, for the sole purpose of domination and intimidation.
You have to understand Islams message, yes they believe in one god, but Islam is antichristian, and it is so because of the false prophet’s message, look at it’s fruit, and how many have been deceived.
But remember, only God knows a man’s heart, and to know who is going to heaven or hell, it is up to God to decide. So I will never condemn, judge or speculate on who is saved or not.

This poster is right. Muslims do worship the same God as we do, however just like Protestant Christians, Jews and Mormons, they do not worship God, The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, in the correct manner.

In fact like the Mormons, they worship our God through an incorrect interpretation given to them by a man of questionable and possible satanic intentions. Mohammed was a false prophet and a false christ which we were warned about by Jesus himself. He did terrible things in the name of God.

Joseph Smith is in the exact same boat and so is E.W White, founder of the anti-catholic Seventh Day Adventists.

We are instructed by the Vatican to love all these lost brothers, and respect that they try to worship the same god but have been lead astray… The exact same instructions the Vatican gives us about Protestant Christians. Perhaps our love will one day bring them all back to the true church.

 

[BryPGuy89]

In another thread it was said that the Vatican says that Muslims worship the same God as we do.

I really don’t understand how they can make a statement like that. A Mosque isn’t a church. An imam isn’t a Priest. And Allah sure as hell isn’t God. Also has any Muslim prayed the rosary? So much for a devotion to Our Lady.

Just because Islam is a monotheistic faith like ours is DOESN’T mean that we worship the same God.

I don’t know how Muslims regard Abraham but even if they regard him like we do doesn’t mean we worship the same God.

The same argument I use everytime someone says this…

How then can the Jews follow the same God as us, temples are not churches, rabbi not a priest, Jehova isn’t the same word we use “God”, most Christians and jews dont pray the rosary or have priests or show devotions to the Blessed Virgin…

 

[BryPGuy89]

Allah was/is the Babylonian Moon God. In the original Koran, he was not the one and only God anyway, he had companions hence the combination in the flags of many Muslim countries of the Moon and Star! Inside the black stone that Muslims walk round (like the pagans that preceded them) is carved the old pagan moon god symbols. Shaving the head and growing the beard is a pagan custom. The list goes on…
Most importantly, Allah is “the chief of deceivers”. In other words, the Father of Lies or Satan himself.

Yoy do realize any Muslim could list a hundred pagan things that the Christian church has adopted into itself right, you only say that all organized religion including Christianity is pagan worship under this thought process.

 

[cpayne]

According to St. Anselm’s commonly accepted definition (in his Proslogion), God is that than which nothing greater can be conceived. In other words, God is the (one and only) Supreme Being, Maximally Perfect Being, Being Than Which No Greater Being Can Exist, etc.

Moslems and Jews worship this Being, as do Christians. Whether or not Moslems have an imperfect understanding of Him is a different argument.

 

[jack_hawkins]

I simply don’t care. Nor do I care whether Yahweh was the war god of another group of nomads.

I made no grand statement; I merely answered your question.

and you confuse my argument as an etymological one when it wasn’t…
I guess someone with no belief doesn’t like to see anyone else making their mind up maybe???

 

[jack_hawkins]

We are instructed by the Vatican to love all these lost brothers, and respect that they try to worship the same god but have been lead astray… The exact same instructions the Vatican gives us about Protestant Christians. Perhaps our love will one day bring them all back to the true church.

so do you think Protestants and Muslims are in the same boat as it were?

 

[jack_hawkins]

Yoy do realize any Muslim could list a hundred pagan things that the Christian church has adopted into itself right, you only say that all organized religion including Christianity is pagan worship under this thought process.

I am well aware of the history of Christianity etc
I don’t agree that “all organised religion” is pagan worship - do you?
I am talking about Islam - to divert onto Christianity is changing the subject, but I don’t think it is intellectually honest to avoid attacking one religion so as to “defend” another

 

[kangnamdragon]

According to St. Anselm’s commonly accepted definition (in his Proslogion), God is that than which nothing greater can be conceived. In other words, God is the (one and only) Supreme Being, Maximally Perfect Being, Being Than Which No Greater Being Can Exist, etc.

Moslems and Jews worship this Being, as do Christians. Whether or not Moslems have an imperfect understanding of Him is a different argument.

I think this is the best summary.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Please back you assertion with references.

I read it long ago, in 2 or 3 places. I dont remember exactly where I read. I suggest you read a book on the beginnings of Islam then read a book on animism which is an african religion. this quite franky is not far from being common knowledge. my barbour read it long ago himself.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Didn’t King David, the ancestor of our Lord, have a man killed because he slept with the man’s wife?

king david changed his ways and repented, mohamed didnt.

 

[jack_hawkins]

king david changed his ways and repented, mohamed didnt.

Dvaid isn’t held up as the perfect example for all time, Mohammed is.

 

[childofmary1143]

Getting back on topic with the thread I think after more prayer and examining that perhaps the word “worship” is something that should be replaced.

Let me give an example, recently the Vatican said it was going to change the pro multis part of the Consecration from for all to for many. Now I can’t say why it was done but I can tell you it wasn’t for the sedevacantists. By changing it, one should not imply that that the other version was in error.

The key word is “worship”. What does it mean for us as Catholics to worship God? Certainly attending Mass is an outward sign of that worship. But true worship is also interior. Would it be true for me to say that Catholics can’t worship our God without acknowledging Jesus to be God?

Muslims and the Islam faith, while they regard Jesus as a Prophet, **DON’T **believe him to be God. So then how can we say that Muslims worship the same God?

Any explanations would be greatly appreciated

 

[otjm]

Getting back on topic with the thread I think after more prayer and examining that perhaps the word “worship” is something that should be replaced.

Let me give an example, recently the Vatican said it was going to change the pro multis part of the Consecration from for all to for many. Now I can’t say why it was done but I can tell you it wasn’t for the sedevacantists. By changing it, one should not imply that that the other version was in error.

The key word is “worship”. What does it mean for us as Catholics to worship God? Certainly attending Mass is an outward sign of that worship. But true worship is also interior. Would it be true for me to say that Catholics can’t worship our God without acknowledging Jesus to be God?

Muslims and the Islam faith, while they regard Jesus as a Prophet, **DON’T **believe him to be God. So then how can we say that Muslims worship the same God?

Any explanations would be greatly appreciated

They, as the Jews and the Christians, believe there is one God. They believe in the God of Abraham, as do the Jews. As do we.

Neither the Jews nor the Muslims believe that Christ was the Son of God. We do. They cannot and/or do not grasp the idea of three Persons in One God. We hold it to be revealed truth. But it all eminates from the same God.

Their (the Muslims) understanding is less than perfect; but the fact that it is not perfect does not mean that it is totally false. False in part does not mean false in all.

 

[childofmary1143]

They, as the Jews and the Christians, believe there is one God. They believe in the God of Abraham, as do the Jews. As do we.

Neither the Jews nor the Muslims believe that Christ was the Son of God. We do. They cannot and/or do not grasp the idea of three Persons in One God. We hold it to be revealed truth. But it all eminates from the same God.

Their (the Muslims) understanding is less than perfect; but the fact that it is not perfect does not mean that it is totally false. False in part does not mean false in all.

Thank you otjm for your post. I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but what you posted has me thinking the following:

“They believe in the God of Abraham” can sound like God is only God of Abraham. God is the God of ALL not just Abraham.

“Their (the Muslims) understanding is less than perfect…” Can we honestly say that as Catholics we have a perfect understanding of God?

 

[otjm]

Thank you otjm for your post. I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but what you posted has me thinking the following:

“They believe in the God of Abraham” can sound like God is only God of Abraham. God is the God of ALL not just Abraham.

“Their (the Muslims) understanding is less than perfect…” Can we honestly say that as Catholics we have a perfect understanding of God?

I don’t take it the wrong way.

A reference to “the God of Abraham” is like a code phrase; it sets it within the Jewish religion and its history. When one uses that language, it is like a shorthand phrase referring to the revelation of God to the Jews that He was one God; there were no others. It is often said also as "the God of Abraham and of Isaac. Same meaning; the reference is God as revealed in the Old Testament. If you are not familiar with the phrase, it could sound funny. No reference in the phrase to God not being the God of all.

The comment about “less than perfect” is not meant to imply that we know Him perfectly; it is reference to the Catholic Church’s position that the Church has the fullness of truth. Having the fullness of truth does not in itself imply that we have perfect knowledge. That is why, over time, doctrines do not change, but our understanding of them may change, in that the understanding becomes fuller, that nuances may become clear, that the understanding before may have been simple and we come to understand that the issue is more complex. Being complex is not change in the doctrine; it is change in our understanding of the doctrine.

 

[BryPGuy89]

I am well aware of the history of Christianity etc
I don’t agree that “all organised religion” is pagan worship - do you?
I am talking about Islam - to divert onto Christianity is changing the subject, but I don’t think it is intellectually honest to avoid attacking one religion so as to “defend” another

Im not saying all organized religion is pagan worship but from your other post if you look at Islam like that and claim it to be pagan then for those same reason all others would be too, so Im saying that they arent pagan worshippers and you theory is flawed.
To claim that Islam has a lot of pagan similarities is to be off subject as well, you’re only pointing a finger at a different religion and then forgetting that your own has done the same things. You cant just start saying something about another religion and claim something and then not expect the other religion in question to not be held as a comparison, talking about Christianity after your comment in comparison to Islam in by far not off topic, Im not attacking or defending anything Im simply stating fact and pointing out that you unjustly claim false on another religion when Christianity has the same characteristics, but you dont denounce them as pagan which is a bias and unfair thing to do if that is what you are going to stand by for a reason as to why Islam’s Allah cant be the same god as Christians God.

 

[Kadaveri]

Didn’t Mohammed have a 120-yr-old man assasinated because he didn’t like the things that old man wrote about him? I don’t agree that he was a “man of charity.”

That is however, a false story. If the fact that it has an 120 year old man in it doesn’t strike you as being slightly suspect, THIS article should.

 

[Valke2]

Didn’t King David, the ancestor of our Lord, have a man killed because he slept with the man’s wife?

yes. And if you want to go back further in the Messianic blood line, you’ll run across the offspring of Lot and his daughter.

 

[Booklover]

That is however, a false story. If the fact that it has an 120 year old man in it doesn’t strike you as being slightly suspect, THIS article should.

Not very professional for a so-called Islamic scholar to call a Christian missionary “vulgar”!

Can Muslims never explain anything without having to criticize Christianity?

Here is a direct rebuttal of your link:
answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/asma_afak2.htm

Concluding remarks:

The preceding data demonstrates that the assertion that Islam prohibits the killing of women and older individuals cannot be conclusively proven from the primary Islamic sources. Specific narrations do allow Muslims to kill women and elderly people under certain circumstances, especially when such persons compose songs and/or recite poems mocking Muhammad.
What the foregoing basically means is that there is nothing in Muhammad’s orders to murder Abu Afak and Asma bint Marwan that go against the Islamic directives. Thus, whereas we have a solid basis to accept the historical veracity of these events we have no good reasons to reject them. At the very least, Bismikaallahuma and Hesham Azmy haven’t provided any valid arguments which would lead us to question whether these murders ever happened.