How can we be modestly dressed when we are swimming

[yellowbicycle]

I would also like to add that when I went looking for a swimsuit in the middle of July last year and there was NOTHING left, I ended up getting a ribbed tank top and shorty shorts. It was perfect, too, because they were dry by the time we walked form the beach to the restaurant and then I didn’t feel naked while eating a hamburger! Ha!

Also, I would LOVE to get my hands on the old-school style swimwear like Marilyn Monroe’s. I don’t expect I’d look as good as her, but I’m a vintage type girl. I think vintage type swimwear would be super cute!

 

[eichenb2]

My grandmother, born in 1910, wore a two-piece. My grandfather, born in 1906, wore a speedo. My husband and I dress much like them.

In a culture, I presume, different from yours.

Actually, Jesus never did, in so many words. St. Paul talks about modesty, but in terms of not adorning oneself with riches.

You seem to be impying that a one-piece is more modest than a two-piece, aren’t you? Why? What’s the difference apart from exposing skin on one’s abdomen and back? How does that mark the border between modesty and immodesty? Are you suggesting that a man who is sex-obsessed and unable to control his thoughts and impulses will observe a woman in a one-piece with brotherly love, but will fall into sin when spotting a bikini-clad woman? Why? Because of her abdominal and dorsal skin?

I honestly just can’t get it, the logic of it. I’ll stop trying and just chalk it up to American culture. It seems like there’s just the prevalent idea that ‘a bikini is immodest’ and thus ‘a bikini invariably excites to lust’ and then it’s naturally a self-fulfulling prophecy. If a man expects to be excited by a bikini, he will be. He will think that the woman is wearing it for his benefit. If a woman is raised with the idea that ‘a bikini invariably excites to lust’, even she will possibly start behaving differently in one.

catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=647

if a bikini clad women with a pretty and a nice figure does not make you lust (if you’re man of course)…there may be something wrong. You may need to take a little blue pill.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Back to the OP. Do you think that a bikini is meant to swim in?
As someone that has been to public beaches and pools if a swimsuit came off when someone was diving or swimming it was a bikini. You do not see them at diving competitions or swim meets.

They are meant to allow as much skin as possible (without being nude) to be exposed.

 

[bobzills]

Wow! I thought Protestants displayed their ignorance when bashing Catholics. You, my friend, should read a book (or two). Why not start with the Catechism of the Catholic Church (Article 841).

People will say anything in order to continue to justify the wearing of immodest and indecent swimsuits.

 

[beenwashed]

Jesus did tell women to dress modestly. Now which is more modest, a bikini, or a one-piece? There’s your answer and remember, seek to please the Lord to your fullest, not to push the envelope.

Yea a one piece is more modest than a two piece. Then again, so is never putting on a swimsuit at all. A 1930’s one piece covers more than a 2009 one piece. And never wearing a swimsuit is more modest. What’s your point?

 

[beenwashed]

catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=647

if a bikini clad women with a pretty and a nice figure does not make you lust (if you’re man of course)…there may be something wrong. You may need to take a little blue pill.

I’d have to disagree. No one MAKES anyone lust after them. After all, if a man is lusting after a woman, he makes a conscious choice to do to. Whatever happened to avoid the near occasion of sins?

 

[beenwashed]

People will say anything in order to continue to justify the wearing of immodest and indecent swimsuits.

Yes and some people will say anything to prove that their position is the correct one and everyone else is ignorant.

 

[Shin]

An important thing to remember is that if you are on the borderline of danger you have already failed, because it will cross over inevitably unless you are a safe distance past it.

It is Tradition that women and men are responsible for their own modesty and responsible for how they dress. People saying, ‘it’s all the man’s fault, none of the woman’s’ defy the Faith.

And also clearly lack love of neighbor or care that these people are put in danger, rather like if I as a man swung a baseball bat as a walked down the street and blamed people for not watching out for it when they were hit.

“There’s nothing evil with me swinging a bat around!” I cry, “I don’t mean to hit anyone! It’s your fault for being in the way and not being smart enough to look out!”

But for people who aren’t open to the love of neighbor and who aren’t humbly always looking for ways to avoid offending God… it can seem useless at times to even speak to people like this, who aren’t afraid of sin and hurting their neighbors, because of their own selfishness and loved misunderstandings – that are against the Faith.

Cultural corruption, is a problem, high and low in every age, no one is immune, prince or pauper, priest, pope, bishop, president, judge, or little child.

 

[Melissa]

Yea a one piece is more modest than a two piece. Then again, so is never putting on a swimsuit at all. A 1930’s one piece covers more than a 2009 one piece. And never wearing a swimsuit is more modest. What’s your point?

It is not universally true that a one-piece is more modest than a two-piece.

One Piece Suit

Two Piece Suit

Yes, I am a fan of the tankini … functional and less hassle when one needs to answer the call of nature.

 

[Ghoti]

It is not universally true that a one-piece is more modest than a two-piece.

One Piece Suit

Two Piece Suit

Yes, I am a fan of the tankini … functional and less hassle when one needs to answer the call of nature.

O, me puir virgin eyes! I are scandalized…

Sorry, just joshing. Please do not indicate that this jocularity is any indication of how seriously I take modesty or my faith.

I agree, the second is more modest than the first, and altho’ it is two-piece, it does not represent what most people think of when they say “two-piece”, which I believe is the one that shows (some) midriff. Also, you really wouldn’t want to dive with the first one.

At the risk of getting flamed again, I can state that we may be agreed on the following:

• “Morse Code Bikini” (i.e. two dots and a dash) - immodest
• Burqa - too modest

Now that we have the upper and lower limits identified, can we define what exactly is and isn’t modest in some kind of quantitative sense?

I’ve seen some ill-temper flung back and forth about modesty, men lusting, enticing men to lust, etc. But I haven’t seen a whole lot about, if you will, “how much is too much”.

BTW, last time I went swimming, I wore a T-shirt with trunks that came to mid-thigh. Modest enough for a man? (serious question, I’m not being sarcastic)

(Last time I went before that, I wore a scuba wet suit - only my chin and hands were nekkid)

 

[Ghoti]

BTW – if you are truly a modest person, do not take Topology as a mathematical discipline – you will soon discover that we are not truly “inside” our clothes, but more or less “adjacent” to them, thus mathematically the same as if we were walking down the street starkers with our kit under our arm.

 

[bobzills]

BTW – if you are truly a modest person, do not take Topology as a mathematical discipline – you will soon discover that we are not truly “inside” our clothes, but more or less “adjacent” to them, thus mathematically the same as if we were walking down the street starkers with our kit under our arm.

I believe that this comment is truly ridiculous. There are many modest, decent women of good moral character who have taken mathematical topology courses.

 

[Ghoti]

OK, you know what? I HAVE HAD IT!

IT WAS A JOKE!!! DID YOU BOTHER TO EVEN READ WHAT I WROTE???

I am sick to death of this.

Since you are all convinced that I do not take my faith or the concept of modesty seriously, or that any attempt at humour makes me somehow less pious or whatever than the spotless lot of you, then leave I shall and no longer sully you with my profanations.

I am out of here, before one of you becomes collateral damage from the lightning bolts that I am sure to soon strike me.

 

[bobzills]

OK, you know what? I HAVE HAD IT!

IT WAS A JOKE!!! DID YOU BOTHER TO EVEN READ WHAT I WROTE???

I am sick to death of this.

Since you are all convinced that I do not take my faith or the concept of modesty seriously, or that any attempt at humour makes me somehow less pious or whatever than the spotless lot of you, then leave I shall and no longer sully you with my profanations.

I am out of here, before one of you becomes collateral damage from the lightning bolts that I am sure to soon strike me.

Is it a joke or is it to be taken seriously?

 

[bobzills]

BTW – if you are truly a modest person, do not take Topology as a mathematical discipline – :

Sorry, but I will have to defend the reputation of those wonderful, decent, serious and intelligent women of good moral character who are taking courses in mathematical topology.

 

[GraceDK]

Fairness requires a reply. What is a 10-year bride? Also, female genital mutilation is not “Islamic”. It is from the particular cultural millieau wherein Islam flourished. It was and is practiced in Ethiopia, which is an overwhelmingly Christian country. The majority of Sunni Muslim scholars view female circumsion as. at most, optional and at worst prohibited. Why is it necessary to ignorantly bash another religion?

We have stories in the media every day about very young girls who were married away to some cousin or uncle in another islamic country.
You may say we are all ignorant Eichen but that is not true.
I have grown up in a country choked by immigrantion, lived in the Middle East, studied islam at the university, read big chunks of the Quran, Hadith and Sunna as well as vast numbers of testmonies, conversations, as well as getting the news every day about how things are going on in the arabic environment of my own country and in the countries with Muslim majority.
When you claim that female circumcision (that has three degrees) is going on among Christians I suspect you speak against your own knowlege. You know that its not true that Christians practise this.
You know well that whereas not all muslims practise the cultural barbarian circumcision of women, those cultures who do are sanctioned by the muslim religion where honour and virginity is identified in a most sickening way and where women have little rights.
This is why we have so many examples of Christian women being abducted, forcefully converted and raped in Africa by Islamists. Because according to islam a woman who has been raped is a non-virgin and her life, honour and future is ruined. In Christianity the view is not so. A woman who has been raped has not lost her honour. She will be cared for and loved… not abandoned. I urge you to read Hirsi Ali’s book, Infidel… exactly about how raped women are left to die in certain muslim countries.
I have never heard of even one christian family that practiced female circumsicion. I bet neither have you.
Do we bash Islam? Maybe so, but its because we have been forced to study it more and more in Europe where we are truly challenged by muslim immigration and mentality.
I know it must be hard for you to hear such talk, but ten years ago I knew nothing of islam nor about the cultures that are so intimately linked with it. Therefore I did not mind islam nor these cultures. Since then my studies, observations and conversations have turned me very much against islam.
I have had muslim and arabic friends and still do. But that does not mean I can accept islam as a way of light for any person. For me, when Islam is practiced with its inherent call to sharia etc, its in the same category as communism and nazism. Here in my country we even see young muslims these days saying “hail Hitler” and “slaughter all the Jews”.
Love the sinner hate the sin. Love the person, hate the lie.
For more information about maltreatment of women and extreme persecution of Christians and others in muslim countries see:
www.od.org

 

[eichenb2]

We have stories in the media every day about very young girls who were married away to some cousin or uncle in another islamic country.
You may say we are all ignorant Eichen but that is not true.
I have grown up in a country choked by immigrantion, lived in the Middle East, studied islam at the university, read big chunks of the Quran, Hadith and Sunna as well as vast numbers of testmonies, conversations, as well as getting the news every day about how things are going on in the arabic environment of my own country and in the countries with Muslim majority.
When you claim that female circumcision (that has three degrees) is going on among Christians I suspect you speak against your own knowlege. You know that its not true that Christians practise this.
You know well that whereas not all muslims practise the cultural barbarian circumcision of women, those cultures who do are sanctioned by the muslim religion where honour and virginity is identified in a most sickening way and where women have little rights.
This is why we have so many examples of Christian women being abducted, forcefully converted and raped in Africa by Islamists. Because according to islam a woman who has been raped is a non-virgin and her life, honour and future is ruined. In Christianity the view is not so. A woman who has been raped has not lost her honour. She will be cared for and loved… not abandoned. I urge you to read Hirsi Ali’s book, Infidel… exactly about how raped women are left to die in certain muslim countries.
I have never heard of even one christian family that practiced female circumsicion. I bet neither have you.
Do we bash Islam? Maybe so, but its because we have been forced to study it more and more in Europe where we are truly challenged by muslim immigration and mentality.
I know it must be hard for you to hear such talk, but ten years ago I knew nothing of islam nor about the cultures that are so intimately linked with it. Therefore I did not mind islam nor these cultures. Since then my studies, observations and conversations have turned me very much against islam.
I have had muslim and arabic friends and still do. But that does not mean I can accept islam as a way of light for any person. For me, when Islam is practiced with its inherent call to sharia etc, its in the same category as communism and nazism. Here in my country we even see young muslims these days saying “hail Hitler” and “slaughter all the Jews”.
Love the sinner hate the sin. Love the person, hate the lie.
For more information about maltreatment of women and extreme persecution of Christians and others in muslim countries see:
www.od.org

state.gov/g/wi/rls/rep/crfgm/10098.htm

 

[eichenb2]

We have stories in the media every day about very young girls who were married away to some cousin or uncle in another islamic country.
You may say we are all ignorant Eichen but that is not true.
I have grown up in a country choked by immigrantion, lived in the Middle East, studied islam at the university, read big chunks of the Quran, Hadith and Sunna as well as vast numbers of testmonies, conversations, as well as getting the news every day about how things are going on in the arabic environment of my own country and in the countries with Muslim majority.
When you claim that female circumcision (that has three degrees) is going on among Christians I suspect you speak against your own knowlege. You know that its not true that Christians practise this.
You know well that whereas not all muslims practise the cultural barbarian circumcision of women, those cultures who do are sanctioned by the muslim religion where honour and virginity is identified in a most sickening way and where women have little rights.
This is why we have so many examples of Christian women being abducted, forcefully converted and raped in Africa by Islamists. Because according to islam a woman who has been raped is a non-virgin and her life, honour and future is ruined. In Christianity the view is not so. A woman who has been raped has not lost her honour. She will be cared for and loved… not abandoned. I urge you to read Hirsi Ali’s book, Infidel… exactly about how raped women are left to die in certain muslim countries.
I have never heard of even one christian family that practiced female circumsicion. I bet neither have you.
Do we bash Islam? Maybe so, but its because we have been forced to study it more and more in Europe where we are truly challenged by muslim immigration and mentality.
I know it must be hard for you to hear such talk, but ten years ago I knew nothing of islam nor about the cultures that are so intimately linked with it. Therefore I did not mind islam nor these cultures. Since then my studies, observations and conversations have turned me very much against islam.
I have had muslim and arabic friends and still do. But that does not mean I can accept islam as a way of light for any person. For me, when Islam is practiced with its inherent call to sharia etc, its in the same category as communism and nazism. Here in my country we even see young muslims these days saying “hail Hitler” and “slaughter all the Jews”.
Love the sinner hate the sin. Love the person, hate the lie.
For more information about maltreatment of women and extreme persecution of Christians and others in muslim countries see:
www.od.org

Also, what would a Muslim boy in Samarkan think of the US if he reads the New York Times? Probably would not be a pretty picture. One thing I still respect about practicing Muslims is that they take their religion seriously. The vast majority of Christians do not, in my opinion. Before you object and express that fundamentalism is also taking religion seriously, Muslim scholars have routinely spoken against terrorism and vigilantism.

 

[GraceDK]

Eichen: Also, what would a Muslim boy in Samarkan think of the US if he reads the New York Times?

Did you read my post? If my only sourse was the news paper I would be a fool to speak as I do, but its not.

Probably would not be a pretty picture. One thing I still respect about practicing Muslims is that they take their religion seriously. The vast majority of Christians do not, in my opinion.

Your statement does not make sense. You use the word “practising” about muslims. so of course they take their religion seriously if they “practise” it. Just like a practising christian is serious about her/his belief. But very many who are called muslims or christians are not practising.
Your statement is void of logical meaning.

Before you object and express that fundamentalism is also taking religion seriously, Muslim scholars have routinely spoken against terrorism and vigilantism.

Some, but many have not.
Even in Islam there is a problem with serious scolarship. Religious criticism and historical criticism is not practiced, criticism of islam (esp. Quran) is not allowed, just as its divinely sanctioned according to islam to kill apostates. There is no religious freedom in sharia. The fact is the more serious a muslim is, the more his views contrast democracy, human rights, women equality and even mixing with people of other world views etc. There are good muslims yes… you are right. But many speak with two tongues. Like Tariq Ramadan and many muslim leaders in my country who were caught on tv when they were not aware of it.

 

[eichenb2]

Eichen: Also, what would a Muslim boy in Samarkan think of the US if he reads the New York Times?

Did you read my post? If my only sourse was the news paper I would be a fool to speak as I do, but its not.

Probably would not be a pretty picture. One thing I still respect about practicing Muslims is that they take their religion seriously. The vast majority of Christians do not, in my opinion.

Your statement does not make sense. You use the word “practising” about muslims. so of course they take their religion seriously if they “practise” it. Just like a practising christian is serious about her/his belief. But very many who are called muslims or christians are not practising.
Your statement is void of logical meaning.

Before you object and express that fundamentalism is also taking religion seriously, Muslim scholars have routinely spoken against terrorism and vigilantism.

Some, but many have not.
Even in Islam there is a problem with serious scolarship. Religious criticism and historical criticism is not practiced, criticism of islam (esp. Quran) is not allowed, just as its divinely sanctioned according to islam to kill apostates. There is no religious freedom in sharia. The fact is the more serious a muslim is, the more his views contrast democracy, human rights, women equality and even mixing with people of other world views etc. There are good muslims yes… you are right. But many speak with two tongues. Like Tariq Ramadan and many muslim leaders in my country who were caught on tv when they were not aware of it.

You are simply displaying your ignorance on these issues. Perhaps, though, I have not been clear.
My comment about the bot is Samarkand is that one can get a scewed picture of Islam and the Muslim world by only relying on non-Muslim sources. I totally agree that there are problematic Issues with they way som Muslims practice Islam. On this issue, I speak with a higher degree of authority than you because I was a Muslim. I may not be an expert on Islamic Law, but I can tell you how it is lived out and percieved on a day-to-day basis.
Second, I will clarify my comment about PRACTICING. I meant to say that Islam when practiced with moderation (at it should be), is more that just an intellectual ascent to a group of esoteric beliefs (Christianity). Por Ejemplo, 5 times a day a devout Muslim is supposed to stop everything and pray. Islam informs how you dress, eat, and greet one another. This is pretty standard with practicing Muslims. On the other hand, the vast majority of practicing Christians believe that weekly mass attendance and some basic degree of contemplation is sufficient. This is my experience and opinion. You may disagree. You cannot, however, state that it is no logical.
The latter part of your reply is rather complicated and amounts to an ad hominen attack. The issues would need to be parsed one by one.