How certain are we that God exists?

[KingCoil]

As I see your approach to the certainty of truth, you have used what I believe to be inductive reasoning, where one goes from what is known to the unkown (effect to cause)
The Existence of God and the reasoning to arrive to that truth.
Deductive reasoning of the certainty of truth is going from the unknown to the known ( cause to effect
By reasoning to arrive to the existence of God. In all of this I always stand to be corrected.

I really must commend you for your mastery of technical terminology in the philosophy discipline.

Please, tell me how I must rewrite my words whatever so that I will not anymore commit a self-contradiction in my words.

So, imagine that you are me and you know how I should compose my thoughts and accordingly my words, so that I will not incur the self-contradiction in my words you accuse me of having committed.

KingCoil

 

[ThinkingSapien]

@KingCoik- I think the is no further progress occurring. Do you have and other thoughts to share to advance your idea?

 

[jochoa]

Please, dear Jochoa, tell me what is the difference between cause of the universe and creator of the universe.

From reality I see that causes can possess either a living or non-living source, which is the basis for why I perceive a lack of certainty from your analysis. For example, without consideration of God, rock can erode due to some kind of water friction from gravity. Although all of these things of the universe have causes, they are all non-living. Therefore, your inferential certainty should include the potential of the cause of the universe being non-living. Since I recognize the Creator of the Universe as living, your analysis, which includes potential for non-living origin leaves room for uncertainty.

On the other hand creations, due to their creative being, possess only living sources. As an example without consideration of God, the friendship between my wife and me was caused by free choices to interact and develop a greater relationship. Not only do all of these things of the universe have causes, as far as we can know with direct certainty, they originate from living sources,

 

[KingCoil]

Welcome to this thread, please read post 1 and post 101, for a proper orientation to the thread. Thanks. * See below for the reproduction of posts 1 and 101. ]*

==========================

Okay, everyone here actively participating in this thread, thank you so much.

At this point, perhaps I will try again still another tack to get this thread move faster.

The topic of the thread is “How certain are we that God exists?”

You all notice that the title is based on the premise that we are certain God exists, only we want to determine how certain.

The how in a question has to do with the way we arrive at something, in the present context, the existence of God, also the quality of our certainty.

For atheists here, you will deal with “How uncertain are we that God exists?”

Or “How certain are we that God does not exist?”

From my part I am sure that God exists on inferential certainty.

For my explanation, see the ANNEX below.

So, for the present we will take a leave of absence from working to concur on what is certain, certainty, the meaning of the words/concepts, that is.

Now, we present our position and explain it.

KingCoil

ANNEX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 1
http://i60.tinypic.com/28ipxme.jpg

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 2
http://i58.tinypic.com/2qu53s9.jpg

Apr 19, '14, 3:41 pm #101
​

Well. let’s go back to the topic of this thread.

Here are the snapshots of my division of human certainty and my argument for the inferential certainty of God’s existence.

Part 1 division of human certainty
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11893837&postcount=25
http://i62.tinypic.com/20rmph0.jpg

Part 2 argument for God
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11900782&postcount=55
http://i61.tinypic.com/vdmn15.jpg

 

[ThinkingSapien]

The topic of the thread is “How certain are we that God exists?”

You all notice that the title is based on the premise that we are certain God exists, only we want to determine how certain.

…]
For atheists here, you will deal with “How uncertain are we that God exists?”

Or “How certain are we that God does not exist?”

Well, you already know this, but I’ll be taking an ignostic approach on that question. Will observe what others say.

 

[opusAquinas]

Read the New Testament.

Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?

 

[Aloysium]

. . . You all notice that the title is based on the premise that we are certain God exists, only we want to determine how certain.

The how in a question has to do with the way we arrive at something, in the present context, the existence of God, also the quality of our certainty.

For atheists here, you will deal with “How uncertain are we that God exists?”

Or “How certain are we that God does not exist?” . . .

What do you mean “we”?
There is no collective human mind that decides these things.
I suppose we could all submit a number from -10 to +10 as to how certain or uncertain each of us is about the existence of God. We could do some sort of statistical analysis of the results to determine our over-all certainty.
However, I’m left wondering what the point of this is.

It might be better just to have people confess their belief or disbelief in God. I would find it more interesting. That’s what I initially thought this thread would be about.

 

[KingCoil]

Welcome to this thread, please read post 1 and post 101, for a proper orientation to the thread. Thanks. * See below for the reproduction of posts 1 and 101. ]*

====================================

What do you mean “we”?
There is no collective human mind that decides these things.
I suppose we could all submit a number from -10 to +10 as to how certain or uncertain each of us is about the existence of God. We could do some sort of statistical analysis of the results to determine our over-all certainty.
However, I’m left wondering what the point of this is.

It might be better just to have people confess their belief or disbelief in God. I would find it more interesting. That’s what I initially thought this thread would be about.

Just understand we as I, okay?

But if others will understand that we as an invitation to join me, then that is also okay with me.

Have you presented your position on the issue of this thread, “How certain are we that God exists?”

Please do that when you next reply to this post from yours truly, and also give your explanation why you choose the position you do take to choose.

I now start the day’s forum session with the latest post of the day, so that I will not miss any new posts.

From your post I will go next to the post immediately prior to yours.

Cheers,
KingCoil

ANNEX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 1
http://i60.tinypic.com/28ipxme.jpg

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 2
http://i58.tinypic.com/2qu53s9.jpg

Apr 19, '14, 3:41 pm #101
​

Well. let’s go back to the topic of this thread.

Here are the snapshots of my division of human certainty and my argument for the inferential certainty of God’s existence.

Part 1 division of human certainty
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11893837&postcount=25
http://i62.tinypic.com/20rmph0.jpg

Part 2 argument for God
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11900782&postcount=55
http://i61.tinypic.com/vdmn15.jpg

 

[KingCoil]

Welcome to this thread, please read post 1 and post 101, for a proper orientation to the thread. Thanks. * See below for the reproduction of posts 1 and 101. ]*

=============================

Read the New Testament.

Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?

As a matter of act I now attend Sunday service in an evangelical church.

They hold that one is saved by professing “I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior.”

The Protestant movement in hind sight is a DIY Christianity, they have only one manual for the Christian faith, the Bible, of course their version of, I means how many books make up the Bible.

Have you chosen what position to take on the issue of this thread, “How certain are we that God exists?”

And explained why you chose the position you did choose?

In my case, my position is that I have inferential certainty that God exists.

By inferential certainty I mean the mental firmness that God exists because I have evidence for His existence from the existence of the universe, or from or by way of intelligent thinking grounded on logic and facts, starting with the existence of the universe, its having a beginning.

Read my posts #1 and #101 for more information, see below in ANNEX, on my division of human certainty, and how to think from the existence of the universe all the way to the existence of God as the creator of the universe.

Cheers,
KingCoil

ANNEX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 1
http://i60.tinypic.com/28ipxme.jpg

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 2
http://i58.tinypic.com/2qu53s9.jpg

Apr 19, '14, 3:41 pm #101
​

Well. let’s go back to the topic of this thread.

Here are the snapshots of my division of human certainty and my argument for the inferential certainty of God’s existence.

Part 1 division of human certainty
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11893837&postcount=25
http://i62.tinypic.com/20rmph0.jpg

Part 2 argument for God
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11900782&postcount=55
http://i61.tinypic.com/vdmn15.jpg

 

[KingCoil]

Welcome to this thread, please read post 1 and post 101, for a proper orientation to the thread. Thanks. * See below for the reproduction of posts 1 and 101. ]*

=======================

Well, you already know this, but I’ll be taking an ignostic approach on that question. Will observe what others say.

Thanks, Sapien, for your post.

True to form, you have not presented your position on this issue, “How certain are we that God exists?”

Of course you will say that you have in fact presented your position, and it is ignostic, whatever that is.

You see, I keep asking myself why people will bring up a term like ignostic when they can just use simple common easy words to tell mankind, the literate mankind in the street and at home an at work, what if they are certain God exists, how they are certain.

And then explain their position.

Okay, suppose you use simple common everyday words to tell us what you mean by your taking up with being an ignostic, and then explain why you are certain or uncertain or whatever in regard to the issue of this thread, “How certain are we that God exists?”

And please, don’t, please, do not tell readers that we must know what is an ignostic whatever, otherwise we should not be in this thread or in philosophy as a sub-board of the main board apologetics.

You see, Sapien, you have the gift of evading your very own position by telling mankind in simple everyday common words, what and how you are certain God exists or does not exist, and then explain in also simple common easy everyday words why you choose to be certain or uncertain about God existing.

Guys who bring in words like ignostic or subjectivity, objectivity, induction, etc., etc., etc., they are into bringing the discussion to what is ignosticism, what is subjectivity, objectivity, induction, and on and on and on, when they can talk if they genuinely know what is their position and how to explain it, talk in simple common everyday easy words, used by literate folks everywhere.

In other words, you give me the impression that you are always into shirking real work of knowing by self-examination what is your position and also the work of explanation, by throwing in words like in the present instance, ignostic.

Cheers,
KingCoil

ANNEX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 1
http://i60.tinypic.com/28ipxme.jpg

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 2
http://i58.tinypic.com/2qu53s9.jpg

Apr 19, '14, 3:41 pm #101
​

Well. let’s go back to the topic of this thread.

Here are the snapshots of my division of human certainty and my argument for the inferential certainty of God’s existence.

Part 1 division of human certainty
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11893837&postcount=25
http://i62.tinypic.com/20rmph0.jpg

Part 2 argument for God
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11900782&postcount=55
http://i61.tinypic.com/vdmn15.jpg

 

[KingCoil]

Welcome to this thread, please read post 1 and post 101, for a proper orientation to the thread. Thanks. * See below for the reproduction of posts 1 and 101. ]*

============================

Originally Posted by KingCoil
Please, dear Jochoa, tell me what is the difference between cause of the universe and creator of the universe.

You say:

Although all of these things of the universe have causes, they are all non-living. Therefore, your inferential certainty should include the potential of the cause of the universe being non-living. Since I recognize the Creator of the Universe as living, your analysis, which includes potential for non-living origin leaves room for uncertainty.

You are really short-sighted as to say that …all of these things of the universe have causes, they are all non-living.

You are the effect of your parents your causes, and you are the cause with your wife of your children – on the assumption that you do have children or at least a child; there are all kinds of living causes in the universe, like parents of children.

Anyway, it is really short-sighted to state that all causes in the universe are non-living causes, and conclude that my concept of God as cause of the universe has the ‘potential’ to whatever make you suspect that I am making God as cause of the universe to be a non-living cause, whereas God is a living God, and on and on and on into your erroneous expatiation.

Anyway, please cite verbatim and with words in context where I say things as to lead you to fall into the ‘potential’ to suspect that I consider God cause of the universe to be a non-living cause.

But, dear Jochoa, I must commend you for taking the bull by its horns at the very top of your post, you attend to my query.

Originally Posted by KingCoil
Please, dear Jochoa, tell me what is the difference between cause of the universe and creator of the universe.

Not like some folks here who will beat about the bush all the time, instead of bringing up the issue at hand and dealing with it, and no cow dung with words like ignostic, subjectivity, objectivity, induction, etc., etc., etc.

These folks are most probably keen on showing their irrelevant learning, behaving like an out of sorts encyclopedic tablet.

KingCoil

ANNEX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 1
http://i60.tinypic.com/28ipxme.jpg

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 2
http://i58.tinypic.com/2qu53s9.jpg

Apr 19, '14, 3:41 pm #101
​

Well. let’s go back to the topic of this thread.

Here are the snapshots of my division of human certainty and my argument for the inferential certainty of God’s existence.

Part 1 division of human certainty
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11893837&postcount=25
http://i62.tinypic.com/20rmph0.jpg

Part 2 argument for God
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11900782&postcount=55
http://i61.tinypic.com/vdmn15.jpg

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Probably lots of mistakes below. Using a mobile device.

True to form, you have not presented your position on this issue, "How certain are we that God exists?

Of course you will say that you have in fact presented your position, and it is ignostic, whatever that is.

For the unfamiliar I left a link in the message (#274). Those that desire to know must only click on it.

You see, I keep asking myself why people will bring up a term like ignostic when they can just use simple common easy words to tell mankind, the literate mankind in the street and at home an at work, what if they are certain God exists, how they are certain.

One reason to use a word is because it fits what one wishes to express. That is why I used it.

Okay, suppose you use simple common everyday words to tell us what you mean by your taking up with being an ignostic, and then explain why you are certain or uncertain or whatever in regard to the issue of this thread, “How certain are we that God exists?”

I am frequently approached by people that make God claims, but these people don’t mean the same thing by “God.” To some God is the same person as Jesus. To some God is not the same person as Jesus. To some there us one god. To others there us at least one, possibly more gods. To some “God” is a title awarded to those that live life as a good Christian and get awarded a world to be over after death. To some it’s the entire universe. To some God is outside the universe. Even if I limit consideration to only the monotheistic Abraham in religions there are differences both great and nuanced by what one means by “God.” So I treat the word like a pronoun. The more specific the term one uses the less general I treat the proposition. For wxample, “How certain are we that Yahweh exists” is more specific. “How certain are we that Jesus Christ exists?” Is more specific. So far you’ve only described “God” as the creator of the universe without describing other attributes. There are both sentient and inanimate entities that have been attributed this action, and not all god-concepts are attributed this action. So I am working with what has presented so far. As the god-concepts presented develops so will my stance. Until then I wish to avoid filling in the gaps with assumptions.

And please, don’t, please, do not tell readers that we must know what is an ignostic whatever, otherwise we should not be in this thread or in philosophy as a sub-board of the main board apologetics.

I would not say that for a variety of reasons. I don’t expect every one to know. Though I have already told you of its meaning in previous interactions in addition to providing the link. So the information was literally a mouse click away.

objectivity, induction, etc., etc., etc., they are into bringing the discussion to what is ignosticism, what is subjectivity, objectivity, induction, and on and on and on,

I’ve not had any problem with the other phrases. Though occupationally I may encounter inductive investigations more than you have (I could be wrong). I get the impression that most people from off the street can’t discuss philosophy. So it seems that you want to limit the participants of this thread to the vocabulary of people that might not be able to engage this discussion.

In other words, you give me the impression that you are always into shirking real work of knowing by self-examination what is your position and also the work of explanation, by throwing in words like in the present instance, ignostic.

Are you unwilling to expand your vocabulary by a few words? The meaning of the word is accessible to you, but only if you wish to access it. I think this is like the proverbial horse that can be led to water but cannot be forced to drink.

Should you happen to be thirsty here is the link again. Or to reword without using an idiom, should you have the desire for knowledge here is the information.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

 

[KingCoil]

Welcome to this thread, please read post 1 and post 101, for a proper orientation to the thread. Thanks. * See below for the reproduction of posts 1 and 101. ]*

=========================

@KingCoil- I think the is no further progress occurring. Do you have and other thoughts to share to advance your idea?

Dear Sapien, I am still hoping that you will grab the bull by its horns, and present your explanation of your definition of certain, certainty.

Dear readers, he will not do it, because it is too much work for him and he is not up to it.

Here is my definition and my explanation.

May 1, '14, 5:18 pm

#250​

…]

Now, let us all go into the four definitions from posters here.

#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

#186 from Ypopp
The level of certainty of the existence of something depends on probability of the existence of a possible alternative. The lower the probability of the possible alternative, the higher the level of certainty. Absolute certainty means that the something to which it refers has no alternative, 2+2=4 for example.

#208 from Sapien
A state of having a feeling of confidence for an idea/proposition or feeling of trustworthiness for an object or person.

#214 from Jochoa
a firm belief directly proportional to the perceived alignment of the reasonable analysis of one's environment and an object in question.

I think I should take on a new tack.

Let each author explain his definition.

Continuation next post ]

Continuation next post ]

KingCoil

ANNEX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 1
http://i60.tinypic.com/28ipxme.jpg

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 2
http://i58.tinypic.com/2qu53s9.jpg

Apr 19, '14, 3:41 pm #101
​

Well. let’s go back to the topic of this thread.

Here are the snapshots of my division of human certainty and my argument for the inferential certainty of God’s existence.

Part 1 division of human certainty
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11893837&postcount=25
http://i62.tinypic.com/20rmph0.jpg

Part 2 argument for God
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11900782&postcount=55
http://i61.tinypic.com/vdmn15.jpg

 

[KingCoil]

Welcome to this thread, please read post 1 and post 101, for a proper orientation to the thread. Thanks. * See below for the reproduction of posts 1 and 101. ]*

===================================

Continuation ]

KingCoil:

Here, I will start.

#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

The purpose of a definition of a word or a concept which is represented by a word is to enable a human who is literate to proceed from the definition of the word/concept to identify the object, event, situation, etc. existing in the factual reality of the universe outside his mind, corresponding to the word/concept in his mind.

So, the definition of the words, certain, certainty, must enable the literate human to go forth in the universe outside his mind to know or to point out, from the definition, to himself and to others what objects, events, situations, etc. are certain or are endowed with certainty.

Now we humans go to the question, who or what is certain or endowed with certainty, that is part of the definition of a word/concept: to be able to answer who or what is certain or endowed with certainty.

The who is man or man’s mind, and the what is about something outside a man’s mind to be existing.

Read my definition of certain:
#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

What is man or we humans certain about or have certainty about? In my definition I say that man or we humans are certain about a piece of information, like for example the information that there is a nose in the face of man.

And why are we certain? Because we have had the experience all the time that we touch a nose in our face, we see a nose in our face, we can point to the nose in our face to folks who don’t know the meaning of the word nose in English.

At this point, I will just jump to the idea that the foundation of certainty in man is his experience; if you have never experienced the nose in your face, because you owing to a freak accident when you were born you lost your nose, but as you live with fellow humans, you can and do experience with your sight and touch the nose in the face of everyone else.

So, you have two pieces of information that are certain for you, namely, * I don’t have a nose, but [ii] everyone else has a nose.

Now, some smart guy asks you how can you be certain that you have no nose and everyone else has a nose, or prove to me that you have no nose and others everyone has a nose?

You tell the smart guy, Try to pinch my nose if you can, but I can pinch your nose, and if you don’t believe me that I can pinch your nose, then I will get a sledge hammer and hit your nose with it.

Now, read again my definition of certain (and certainty) the word and the concept,

#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

…]

Okay, Sapien, no more beating about the bush, produce your explanation of your definition

KingCoil

ANNEX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 1
http://i60.tinypic.com/28ipxme.jpg

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 2
http://i58.tinypic.com/2qu53s9.jpg

Apr 19, '14, 3:41 pm #101
​

Well. let’s go back to the topic of this thread.

Here are the snapshots of my division of human certainty and my argument for the inferential certainty of God’s existence.

Part 1 division of human certainty
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11893837&postcount=25

http://i62.tinypic.com/20rmph0.jpg

Part 2 argument for God
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11900782&postcount=55
http://i61.tinypic.com/vdmn15.jpg

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Dear Sapien, I am still hoping that you will grab the bull by its horns, and present your explanation of your definition of certain, certainty.

I’ve already done it. I gave you a definition and for a few messages you didn’t like it but would not say why. Finally, when you gave a reason for not liking it I gave you an alternative definition back in message #238. You never acknowledge the alternative definition. Between the lack of acknowledgement and you requesting for it again I think that you overlooked it. Look back at message #238. If you find the definition inadequate or missing something be specific about why you find it inadequate. Only telling me that you don’t indo it suitable but not telling me why doesn’t give me anything that I can use to give you any further information. If you express your concerns than I can address them.

If after reading you have problems with comprehension make them known and they can be addressed. I understand that English isn’t your first language and I’m willing to give some accommodations for this. But I can only help if you are willing to cooperate and make known where you need help.

 

[jochoa]

You are really short-sighted as to say that …all of these things of the universe have causes, they are all non-living.

Please reconsider my analysis, for you have missed that “these things” of the first example are referring to rock, water, and gravity. As far as I know, science recognizes these things, namely rocks, water, and gravity of the universe, as non-living things.

I did go on to include a second example of created beings, due to their creative nature, possessing living sources. It was my attempt to share that I recognize all directly observable living beings of the universe possess living causes.

Anyway, it is really short-sighted to state that all causes in the universe are non-living causes…

If you would once again please reconsider my position, I shared:

From reality I see that causes can possess either a living or non-living source…

In the first example, I shared some of the non-living causes, and in the second example, I shared some of the living causes.

Therefore, although the Cause of the universe is 100% certain, because of the inferential possibility of the Cause of the universe being living or non-living, there is only a 50% inferential certainty of the Cause of the universe being living, namely the Creator of the Universe, based on the analysis of all things of the universe sharing a single cause in the beginning. I hope this helps in understanding why I perceive your inferential analysis yielding uncertainty.

Thanks for the continued discussion! This conversation is truly a highlight in my day!

 

[opusAquinas]

How do you know something is True?

youtube.com/watch?v=y6DtYC9N8RM

These numbnuts the main inheritors of the Enlightenut project in this youtube video want to downplay the truth. These are your good shepherds?

 

[KingCoil]

Welcome to this thread, please read post 1 and post 101, for a proper orientation to the thread. Thanks. * See below for the reproduction of posts 1 and 101. ]*

=========================

How do you know something is True?

youtube.com/watch?v=y6DtYC9N8RM

These numbnuts the main inheritors of the Enlightenut project in this youtube video want to downplay the truth. These are your good shepherds?

You want to go into what is true, truth.

That is a very big question, but our issue can be settled with focusing on facts, logic, and human certainty.

So, please tell me what is your position in regard to the thread, and explain it.

And please, do not tell me that you have already given your position and explained it, just do it again next time you post here, or give the verbatim citations from your posts and with links to them which are your words to that effect, namely, your position on this topic in the title of the thread, and your explanation.

Do as I always do here, I always bring up again or re-tell again my words and even give the links to them.

Cheers,
KingCoil

ANNEX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 1
http://i60.tinypic.com/28ipxme.jpg

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 2
http://i58.tinypic.com/2qu53s9.jpg

Apr 19, '14, 3:41 pm #101
​

Well. let’s go back to the topic of this thread.

Here are the snapshots of my division of human certainty and my argument for the inferential certainty of God’s existence.

Part 1 division of human certainty
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11893837&postcount=25
http://i62.tinypic.com/20rmph0.jpg

Part 2 argument for God
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11900782&postcount=55
http://i61.tinypic.com/vdmn15.jpg

 

[KingCoil]

Welcome to this thread, please read post 1 and post 101, for a proper orientation to the thread. Thanks. * See below for the reproduction of posts 1 and 101. ]*

==========================

Originally Posted by KingCoil
You are really short-sighted as to say that …all of these things of the universe have causes, they are all non-living.

In brief:
Your point is that I cannot equate the cause of the universe with the creator of the universe, but you have not really explained what is the difference to you between the cause of the universe and the creator of the universe, except to say that creator of the universe is a living entity, whereas you have the potential to suspect that I am into only causes that are not living entities.

So, I will just tell you that when I use the word cause, it includes anything and everything including living entities that satisfies the criterion of bringing to existence other things.

You see, you want to delimit my concept of cause to non-living entities and then you insist that my cause of the universe is not the creator of the universe, because the creator of the universe is a living entity, etc., etc., etc.

Will you just bring forth my words verbatim to the effect I said explicitly that when I use the word cause I understand it to be only non-living entities.

Please, Jochoa, I know you love God, but you don’t have to prove to yourself your attachment to God by going into infantile nitpicking over nothing.

KingCoil

ANNEX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 1
http://i60.tinypic.com/28ipxme.jpg

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 2
http://i58.tinypic.com/2qu53s9.jpg

Apr 19, '14, 3:41 pm #101
​

Well. let’s go back to the topic of this thread.

Here are the snapshots of my division of human certainty and my argument for the inferential certainty of God’s existence.

Part 1 division of human certainty
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11893837&postcount=25
http://i62.tinypic.com/20rmph0.jpg

Part 2 argument for God
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11900782&postcount=55
http://i61.tinypic.com/vdmn15.jpg

 

[KingCoil]

Welcome to this thread, please read post 1 and post 101, for a proper orientation to the thread. Thanks. * See below for the reproduction of posts 1 and 101. ]*

================================

Okay, everyone, thanks for your participation.

I am still most keen to read your definition of certain, certainty, in less than 50 words.

Those of you who have contributed a definition in less than 50 words, thanks, now please also take the work to explain it.

Then also if you prefer you can go ahead and present your view on how certain you are or you are not in regard to the existence of God: present your position in very few words, then explain it.

For folks who are all the time into insisting that they have already said everything and I just have to look it up, if you will not bring up again at the top of your post next time you post, in regard to definition and explanation of certain, certainty, or in regard to your position on God exists how certain you are, and explain it, then it is useless for me to be investing time and trouble to look up what you said earlier.

Now, I like to go into what is inferential thinking and the fruit of inferential thinking which is inferential certainty.

You see, folks here, I divide human certainty into direct and inferential, see below in ANNEX.

And I describe inferential certainty as

Apr 11, '14, 3:00 pm

#1​

…]

So, let us be concise and of course also precise, I propose that we keep to these two terms in regard to certainty, namely:

1. Direct certainty – founded on direct experience of an object
2. Inferential certainty – founded on intelligent thinking grounded on logic and facts.

…]

• See also ANNEX below, and use the search thread function, for ‘inferential certainty.’ ]*

What is intelligent thinking?

From stock knowledge, it is the process of reasoning on facts with logic to resolve an issue or to solve a problem.

You see, folks here, there are thinkers who really don’t think, when they come to an issue they start trying to recall what they have read, instead of thinking, and also they start recalling and talking from rote memory repeating cliche terms like ignostic, subjectivity, objectivity, induction, living entity cause vs non-living entity cause, etc., etc., etc. blah, blah, blah…

The way to intelligent thinking is to focus on facts and work toward the resolution of an issue with logic as we focus on the facts of a situation, or find the solution to a problem.

And that is the essence of intelligent thinking leading us to inferential certainty of the existence of things or entities which are beyond our immediate or direct experience with our external senses like sight and hearing and touch of things outside our mind, heart, soul, self, etc., or direct experience of our internal events like for example the mood in us of regret, hatred, peace, love, etc.

What are the things or entities beyond our senses or internal consciousness?

I give you the example of God in concept as the creator/cause of the universe.

I give you another example, what about the existence of dark energy and dark matter?

KingCoil

ANNEX

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 1
http://i60.tinypic.com/28ipxme.jpg

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=101
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11889096&postcount=1
Part 2
http://i58.tinypic.com/2qu53s9.jpg

Apr 19, '14, 3:41 pm #101
​

Well. let’s go back to the topic of this thread.

Here are the snapshots of my division of human certainty and my argument for the inferential certainty of God’s existence.

Part 1 division of human certainty
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11893837&postcount=25
http://i62.tinypic.com/20rmph0.jpg

Part 2 argument for God
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11900782&postcount=55
http://i61.tinypic.com/vdmn15.jpg