How come so many Catholics actively support activities that the Church opposes?

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Jesus described different types of ground to receive seed: hard, thistles, stony, weedy, birdy, and the the degrees of good type of ground.

It is the same today as then, the same discussion. The seed is good, but the ground? If the ear dosen’t hear, or the heart dosen’t receive, it is the same baby today as it was then, but only in a different crib.

Penance and prayer … and suddenly the ground becomes soft.

Praise be Jesus Christ.
 
Jesus described different types of ground to receive seed: hard, thistles, stony, weedy, birdy, and the the degrees of good type of ground.

It is the same today as then, the same discussion. The seed is good, but the ground? If the ear dosen’t hear, or the heart dosen’t receive, it is the same baby today as it was then, but only in a different crib.

Penance and prayer … and suddenly the ground becomes soft.

Praise be Jesus Christ.
👍

Excellent perspective!
 
And this argument has actually worked for you? The reason I ask is that many of the people I know think that it’s about control, that the Church wants to control us, and that is why they do not listen.
When folks see it as a control issue, that the church steps on their freedoms, one can point out:
  • The government wants to control you
  • The media wants to control you
  • Your company wants to control you
  • Your home owner’s association wants to control you
  • The list goes on…
And most of these controlling groups are not interested in your well being, certainly not your eternal soul. They are just self interested, or looking to manage you, or exploit you.

So how do they react to that?!?

Or are they so biased by the anti-Catholic media that they put the Catholic control issues ahead of all these other ones?
 
I am trying to go back to Church after a long time and I am amazed at the amount of support for gay ‘marriage’:confused:, abortion, contraception and porn from people who go to church regularly.

Isn’t the Bible clear on such issues? I have been told by some that the Church needs to evolve and be open to new ideas.

Is it safe to say these people are no longer Christians if they reject the institution of marriage and sanctity of life? Christianity cannot survive without marriage and the Bible is very clear on its purpose and meaning of it.

Finally, is there any good book/documentary you would recommend on we ended up in such a sad situation? I was reading about the 45 goals of communism and I find it amazing how so many goals have been accomplished.
Since the sources of sin are ignorance, passion, and malice, it must be one of those. Now in some cases ignorance is invincible, but when the person does not make the effort to find the truth of what the Churches teaches and it is readily available, there is culpable (vincible) ignorance. Due to malice these sins against the Holy Spirit occur (Catechism of Pius X):
6 Q. How many are the sins against the Holy Ghost?
A. The sins against the Holy Ghost are six: (1) Despairing of being saved; (2) Presuming on being saved without merit; (3) Opposing the known truth; (4) Envying another’s graces; (5) Obstinately remaining in sin; (6) Final impenitence.
 
Since the sources of sin are ignorance, passion, and malice, it must be one of those. Now in some cases ignorance is invincible, but when the person does not make the effort to find the truth of what the Churches teaches and it is readily available, there is culpable (vincible) ignorance. Due to malice these sins against the Holy Spirit occur (Catechism of Pius X):
6 Q. How many are the sins against the Holy Ghost?
A. The sins against the Holy Ghost are six: (1) Despairing of being saved; (2) Presuming on being saved without merit; (3) Opposing the known truth; (4) Envying another’s graces; (5) Obstinately remaining in sin; (6) Final impenitence.
THIS!!
 
There’s another big thing we can’t overlook as to why so many Catholics support activities that the Church opposes. It’s called leadership. Many, many catechists, priests, bishops, and even cardinals have fallen into liberal beliefs. Supporting things that completely flies in the face of Church teachings. There’s a co-worker of mine who’s on the other side of the fence with many of the Church’s teachings. Homosexuality, SSM, women priests, contraception, and divorce just to name a few. I’ve gone to great lengths to sway him…but to no avail. His pastor comes to his house to play board games twice a month. I asked my co–worker to take these issues up with his pastor when he visits. He replied; “I have, many times…and my pastor completely agrees with my views.” Now how in the world do you combat that? 🤷 A couple of months ago on EWTN Radio, John Martignoni, was discussing liberal priests and the bad pastoral advice they give to their parishioners and the damage that this causes them. And he said the following; *“It’s as if they were pouring acid onto their souls.” * And I can tell you this, I see very clearly where Martignoni was coming from. Because I see first hand the fruits of this bad pastoral advice in my co-worker. And I can’t help but wonder, how many more thousands like this are out there, who are corrupted by poor leadership and bad counsel…and have had acid poured onto their souls?

Peace, Mark
 
There’s another big reason we can’t overlook as to why so many Catholics support activities that the Church opposes. It’s called leadership. Many, many catechists, priests, bishops, and even cardinals have fallen into liberal beliefs. Supporting things that completely flies in the face of Church teachings. There’s a co-worker of mine who’s on the other side of the fence with many of the Church’s teachings. Homosexuality, SSM, women priests, contraception, and divorce just to name a few. I’ve gone to great lengths to sway him…but to no avail. His pastor comes to his house to play board games twice a month. I asked my co–worker to take these issues up with his pastor when he visits. He replied; “I have, many times…and my pastor completely agrees with my views.” Now how in the world do you combat that? 🤷 A couple of months ago on EWTN Radio, John Martignoni, was discussing liberal priests and the bad pastoral advice they give to their parishioners and the damage that this causes them. And he said the following; *“It’s as if they were pouring acid onto their souls.” * And I can tell you this, I see very clearly where Martignoni was coming from. Because I see first hand the fruits of this bad pastoral advice in my co-worker. And I can’t help but wonder, how many more thousands like this are out there, who have been corrupted by poor leadership and bad counsel…and have had acid poured onto their souls?

Peace, Mark
 
When folks see it as a control issue, that the church steps on their freedoms, one can point out:
  • The government wants to control you
  • The media wants to control you
  • Your company wants to control you
  • Your home owner’s association wants to control you
  • The list goes on…
And most of these controlling groups are not interested in your well being, certainly not your eternal soul. They are just self interested, or looking to manage you, or exploit you.

So how do they react to that?!?

Or are they so biased by the anti-Catholic media that they put the Catholic control issues ahead of all these other ones?
Thanks for answering 🙂

The people i know either do not perceive the attempts at control by these other groups, or they assume the good intention of doing it for the good of society while leaving the individual free to make his or her own choices about private matters.

And it is these private matters over which the Church seeks control just because they are power-hungry and want to keep people under their thumbs.
 
The fact that many catholics use contraception just shows that its ridiculous to say it shouldn’t be used
 
There’s another big reason we can’t overlook as to why so many Catholics support activities that the Church opposes. It’s called leadership. Many, many catechists, priests, bishops, and even cardinals have fallen into liberal beliefs. Supporting things that completely flies in the face of Church teachings. There’s a co-worker of mine who’s on the other side of the fence with many of the Church’s teachings. Homosexuality, SSM, women priests, contraception, and divorce just to name a few. I’ve gone to great lengths to sway him…but to no avail. His pastor comes to his house to play board games twice a month. I asked my co–worker to take these issues up with his pastor when he visits. He replied; “I have, many times…and my pastor completely agrees with my views.”
I think this is a BIG part of this issue.

Decades ago when I was getting married and my fiance and I met with the priest, I told the priest outright I would not raise my children Catholic. He told me he didn’t care to sign the “d*** paper” and make my mother happy.

I felt like I, who didn’t believe in many of the doctrines of the faith, had more respect for the teachings of the faith and not flying in the face of them.

I was ready to follow the doctrine and get married by a justice of the peace rather than the Church but the priest counciled otherwise.

Also, don’t ask the average person in the pew about what makes a person a Catholic, because you’ll get 10 different answers from 10 different people.

I was told that no matter what I ever believed or lived, I would always be a Catholic because I had been baptized so.

I was told if I didn’t believe get out rather than cause scandal.

I was told it didn’t matter if I believe, just stay in no matter what.

I was given a green scapular.

I was told I was damned and that today might be my last day so I’d better get to confession and fast.

I was told “Stay, we need more people like you”.

I was told I was poorly catechized.

I was told I knew the teachings of the faith more than 99% of Catholics in the pew.

etc etc etc etc .

So…I went to a Canon Lawyer and got the REAL answer.

In the end my choice was to no longer call myself a Catholic, because I do respect (and understand) the teachings of the faith, but do not believe them to be the Ultimate Truth. And I did not think it was right for me to call myself Catholic and misrepresent the faith to anyone.

Because I have been baptized and was catechised and then rejected the faith, I have excommunicated myself. So the correct terminology for me excommunicated Catholic.

It is even graver because I did not pass on the faith to my children

In the end it’s up to the individual to choose whether to call themselves a Catholic and show up in the pew and live the faith. But it is a grave error to pass one’s own beliefs off as those of the Church when they are not, and one who is an adult and does call themselves Catholic have the duty to learn the doctrine of the faith and not misrepresent it.

But even so, those people are still Catholic, as am I, though an excommunicated Catholic.

Like I said this is not MY opinion, but what I was told by a Canon Lawyer. I was also told that I would need to speak to a Bishop in order to return to communion with the Church, simply going to confession before a priest would not suffice.

Knowledge that the actions one takes, the beliefs they hold, or the way the represent or misrepresent the Church is necessary for the action to lead to excommunication. One must understand the gravity of their action.

Not everyone who calls themselves Catholic but does not live the teachings of the faith have put themselves in a state of excommunication. Most people don’t understand how serious an issue that is, and many priests don’t teach their flock the gravity of those issues.
 
Yes you do get different answers, im a convert, but im beginning to wonder if I should leave , I just cant agree that contraception is wrong
 
The fact that many catholics use contraception just shows that its ridiculous to say it shouldn’t be used
The teachings of Christ are not contingent upon majority opinion. If you are a convert, then I would suggest you pray about and study the faith more in order to finally realize that the “rules” are made for our own greater benefit because Christ loves us and wants to bring us into the fullest life possible. The Catechism states that “trusting in God and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary neither to human freedom nor to human reason.” What God will give you after you assent to faith (assenting because you submit to Him) will be an amazing, wonderful thing - a new world of life and freedom and love.
 
Yes you do get different answers, im a convert, but im beginning to wonder if I should leave , I just cant agree that contraception is wrong
When I first returned to the Church, I too did not understand why abc would be wrong, but I decided to obey the Church on that for the moment, *and I prayed about it. *Then God gave me the understanding.

Now when I try to explain the Catholic position, it seems rather dry and clinical, but the understanding God gave me was accompanied by a realization of the beauty of this truth, so I highly recommend asking God in prayer for understanding 🙂
 
I think this is a BIG part of this issue.

Decades ago when I was getting married and my fiance and I met with the priest, I told the priest outright I would not raise my children Catholic. He told me he didn’t care to sign the “d*** paper” and make my mother happy.

I felt like I, who didn’t believe in many of the doctrines of the faith, had more respect for the teachings of the faith and not flying in the face of them.

I was ready to follow the doctrine and get married by a justice of the peace rather than the Church but the priest counciled otherwise.

Also, don’t ask the average person in the pew about what makes a person a Catholic, because you’ll get 10 different answers from 10 different people.

I was told that no matter what I ever believed or lived, I would always be a Catholic because I had been baptized so.

I was told if I didn’t believe get out rather than cause scandal.

I was told it didn’t matter if I believe, just stay in no matter what.

I was given a green scapular.

I was told I was damned and that today might be my last day so I’d better get to confession and fast.

I was told “Stay, we need more people like you”.

I was told I was poorly catechized.

I was told I knew the teachings of the faith more than 99% of Catholics in the pew.

etc etc etc etc .

So…I went to a Canon Lawyer and got the REAL answer.

In the end my choice was to no longer call myself a Catholic, because I do respect (and understand) the teachings of the faith, but do not believe them to be the Ultimate Truth. And I did not think it was right for me to call myself Catholic and misrepresent the faith to anyone.

Because I have been baptized and was catechised and then rejected the faith, I have excommunicated myself. So the correct terminology for me excommunicated Catholic.

It is even graver because I did not pass on the faith to my children

In the end it’s up to the individual to choose whether to call themselves a Catholic and show up in the pew and live the faith. But it is a grave error to pass one’s own beliefs off as those of the Church when they are not, and one who is an adult and does call themselves Catholic have the duty to learn the doctrine of the faith and not misrepresent it.

But even so, those people are still Catholic, as am I, though an excommunicated Catholic.

Like I said this is not MY opinion, but what I was told by a Canon Lawyer. I was also told that I would need to speak to a Bishop in order to return to communion with the Church, simply going to confession before a priest would not suffice.

Knowledge that the actions one takes, the beliefs they hold, or the way the represent or misrepresent the Church is necessary for the action to lead to excommunication. One must understand the gravity of their action.

Not everyone who calls themselves Catholic but does not live the teachings of the faith have put themselves in a state of excommunication. Most people don’t understand how serious an issue that is, and many priests don’t teach their flock the gravity of those issues.
No doubt countless souls have been led astray, and the state of the Church today gives testament to that. Yet I have to console myself with the fact that God freely gives grace to each and every single human person and there comes that moment in time for everyone when it is just between him and God. Eternity must stand still while God waits for the response of each soul…(knowing full well what the answer will be) to either be accepted or rejected by one of His own creatures, yet never reneging on His gift of free will. (I’m certain you made the choice you felt was right at the time, thank you for your honesty, and God never stops calling to us.) However, we do have the capacity to condemn ourselves and the thought of that is as frightful as acid poured onto the soul. Kudos to you, Mark, for that powerful metaphor!
 
I thought that the teaching on contraception is one that can be changed
 
I thought that the teaching on contraception is one that can be changed
The Catechism of the Catholic Church indicates that it is morally unacceptable:
2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).
 
I thought that the teaching on contraception is one that can be changed
There are people who suggest that HV is only an encyclical and therefore not ex cathedra, but what they do not understand is that because HV is a reiteration of perennial Church teaching, the teaching that [eta] prohibits using abc was actually *already *Catholic doctrine.
 
To anyone who claims that they believe that the church gets it wrong, I ask you to please point out the error in Humanae Vitae.

All I hear folks say is that the church is wrong, but I never hear those same people first correctly state the church’s position and reasons, and then refute them. I have never heard the mainstream media do this.

Let me summarize a few key points:
  1. Artificial birth control causes men to consider women as sex objects. This leads to men not having a bond to women and destroys families.
  2. ABC causes an increase in abortions since birth control does not always work.
  3. ABC separates sex from procreation and this separation directly attacks the way that humans have established their basis for family and society and their relationship to God as the giver of life.
  4. ABC makes sex a casual thing and thus destroys people’s reverence for a God- given miracle, and thus they tend to lose their faith in God altogether.
All of these things directly separate God and man, drive us apart, generally harm society and especially harm children.

All of the ill-effects predicted have come to pass.

Please someone who thinks the church is wrong - exactly what are they wrong about?

Look, it is one thing for Catholics to engage in wrong things and then with humility understand that they did something clearly wrong. Even if they do it over and over, we know that God forgives. We are all sinners. No reason to single out this one sin as any different. Obviously it is wrong.

There are a lot of Catholics actively doing other sins right now too. But they know it too.

But the problem here is with folks who really claim that the church gets it wrong and they know better.

If you have decided that you know better, then what is wrong with the reasons given in Humanae Vitae?
 
Hello Burdock.
The fact that many catholics use contraception just shows that its ridiculous to say it shouldn’t be used
From this I can assume you think the Church speaking against the use of contraception is looking pretty ridiculous?

Glenda
 
The fact that many catholics use contraception just shows that its ridiculous to say it shouldn’t be used
The truths of the Christian faith don’t depend on the whims of fleeting popular opinion. You should revel in the fact that Church teaching, which is revealed truth, does NOT change, ever.

The Church proclaims that Jesus is God. Should this change? What if a few centuries from now most people don’t believe this teaching? Is it up for debate? Of course not.

And this applies to all the teachings of the Church, because they have all been challenged over the last 2,000 years.

Take some more time to study and reflect on why the Church teaches something. It could be that you are the one who is wrong.
 
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