How come so many Catholics actively support activities that the Church opposes?

[zz912]

I thought that the teaching on contraception is one that can be changed

Nope.

 

[Burdock]

I have read about it, but its a fact that most catholics use some sort of contraception, I know you say it doesnt make it right. It is a contentious issue, so according to the church most catholics shouldnt be receiving the eucharist then

 

[Arandur]

I have read about it, but its a fact that most catholics use some sort of contraception, I know you say it doesnt make it right. It is a contentious issue, so according to the church most catholics shouldnt be receiving the eucharist then

Receiving the Eucharist worthily requires being in a state of grace AND being in communion with the Body of Christ–which means that you are saying that you accept the teachings of Jesus, accept that He IS Truth and that He is the Head of His Church (and preserves it from error in matters of faith and morals).

Many people these days seem so poorly catechized that they don’t even realize that the Eucharist IS Jesus, and that to receive Him in this manner is saying that you accept Him completely, and everything He teaches, and want to be completely in union with Him and the Church He established and maintains.

We violate that in many ways. Living in a state of unrepentant grave sin is a slap in the face of Jesus and not true communion. It is saying, “yes, my sin sent you to the cross–but I don’t care. I WANT to keep sinning and nailing you up there. I don’t regret sending you to the Cross.” This is why Paul says that receiving Eucharist in such a state makes us “guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord.”

Many Catholics don’t even examine their consciences before receiving the Eucharist, much less confess their mortal sins. So on more bases than contraception, they are receiving unworthily. I used to be in this camp, and try hard not to be any more.

Secondly, can you really say that you’re in communion with Jesus Christ if you reject what He teaches?

Even if you don’t understand it (the Apostles themselves didn’t understand a great deal of what Jesus taught them!), or have trouble living up to it, following Christ means that you believe (with faith seeking understanding) and try to do what He asks of you, even if you don’t fully understand. Like a child being obedient to his parents, or even like a citizen following a law that you don’t really understand why it exists or is structured in a certain way.

As for sin, sinning does not make you not a Christian (or Catholic); but rejecting Christ (by rejecting His teachings) make you not a Christian. After all, as with any other organization you might consider, are you really a member of that organization if you actively oppose what it stands for?

This is why it is important to give assent to the Church’s teachings. How can one call oneself a Catholic Christian if one rejects Jesus (who IS Truth) and even actively opposes that Truth, calling it false or evil when it is the true Good?

That said, questioning is fine (faith seeking understanding). But we give assent (and obedience) while we seek, and we do not oppose that which we question. Let us humble ourselves before the Lord and accept His wisdom and His plan for us, not make up our own on our own authority (or that of our culture).

 

[Burdock]

But jesus did not condemn contraception

 

[zz912]

But jesus did not condemn contraception

Luke 10:16 Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”

Matthew 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kepha), and upon this rock (kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 l I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Matthew 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. 18 Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 21:25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.

There’s a reason Jesus built a Church and gave His authority to that Church.

 

[zz912]

I have read about it, but its a fact that most catholics use some sort of contraception, I know you say it doesnt make it right. It is a contentious issue, so according to the church most catholics shouldnt be receiving the eucharist then

Correct. And MANY more bishops and priests need to teach about this so they can possibly save the souls of their flock.

 

[Tigg]

But jesus did not condemn contraception

At least one form of birth control was forbidden in scripture in the OT and there were many things that Jesus did not specifically mention due to vocabulary and context at the time, but if you believe He did not condemn it, that would go under the category of wishful thinking!

Ignoring the mountain of evidence, some maintain that the Church considers the use of contraception a matter for each married couple to decide according to their “individual conscience.” Yet, nothing could be further from the truth. The Church has always maintained the historic Christian teaching that deliberate acts of contraception are always gravely sinful, which means that it is mortally sinful if done with full knowledge and deliberate consent (CCC 1857). This teaching cannot be changed and has been taught by the Church infallibly.

There is no way to deny the fact that the Church has always and everywhere condemned artificial contraception. The matter has already been infallibly decided. The so-called “individual conscience” argument amounts to “individual disobedience.”

catholic.com/tracts/birth-control

 

[Burdock]

It was condemned in the old testamemt, because onan spilled his seed on the ground, and the requirement wasvthat his brothers widow was supposed to become his wife and have more children, but that was then, not the same now.

 

[Arandur]

It was condemned in the old testamemt, because onan spilled his seed on the ground, and the requirement wasvthat his brothers widow was supposed to become his wife and have more children, but that was then, not the same now.

That’s not the only place. Look up references to “pharmakeia.” In the context of the time, those were drugs to prevent conception or to commit abortion. And that was forbidden in the NT.

Church authority is valid; the Church teaches what Christ teaches in matters of faith and morals. zz912 only scratched the surface of that, showing that to reject the Church knowingly is to reject Christ.

Aside from that, though, there is Natural Law, which is God’s revelation through the body and physical world and behavior. There are strong cases to be made frm Natural Law that contraception is wrong and the Church’s position on sex, marriage, and procreation is sound.

Similarly, there is philosophical reason.

Humanae Vitae and its assessment and predictions bear out Natural Law and simple reasoned philosphy, as well as the moral teachings of the Church. And that all Christians of all denominations universally (and often vehemently) condemned contraception up until a few decades ago should tell you something, as well (that it was common sense, part and parcel to a proper understanding of sex and human dignity).

But really, I encourage you to back away from the oft-said but very weak idea that “Jesus never said anything about it.” What did he have to say about human cloning, abortion, nuclear weapons, etc. Look deeper.

And I urge you, while you are seeking understanding, not to throw out Christ’s Church just because you don’t yet understand why a moral teaching is in place. Many would reject the Church because they also prefer the culture’s ideas on fornication or divorce (or many other subjects). Rejecting the Church because you don’t like Jesus’s morals is a pretty serious decision.

 

[zz912]

It was condemned in the old testamemt, because onan spilled his seed on the ground, and the requirement wasvthat his brothers widow was supposed to become his wife and have more children, but that was then, not the same now.

The punishment for refusing to sire children for his brother’s wife was public humiliation. Onan was struck dead. So his punishment was for something else. Care to guess what it was?

 

[zz912]

And I urge you, while you are seeking understanding, not to throw out Christ’s Church just because you don’t yet understand why a moral teaching is in place. Many would reject the Church because they also prefer the culture’s ideas on fornication or divorce (or many other subjects). Rejecting the Church because you don’t like Jesus’s morals is a pretty serious decision.

Agreed.

Take a good long look at the options laid before you. On one side is the lure of debauchery, sin, fornication, destruction of families, single-parent homes, hopelessness, and many other ills. On the other side stands the unchanging teaching of the Church. The “rules” of the Church are there for your own good. They aren’t to be “mean” or “controlling”. Just as a parent has a rule not to touch a hot stove, the Church has “rules” for the safety of your soul.

The lure of the culture and world is powerful. They promise unending pleasure, freedom to do anything you want, consequence-free lives. But it’s all smoke and mirrors, just lies. Reject the siren calls, and listen to the Church that God Himself built and protects.

 

[glendab]

Hello Burdock.

But jesus did not condemn contraception

How did you ever determine this?

Glenda

 

[Tigg]

But jesus did not condemn contraception

Contraception has led to a loss of the dignity of human sexuality. It is anti-family and the family unit is what is being so viciously attacked now. God has sanctified the marital act, but contraceptives are incompatible with the authentic expression of self-less love He intended. The Church is not restricting your freedom with this teaching, rather she is bringing a new dimension to the very concept of bonding and love. Please start with this excellent article below, and pray as you read; ask for understanding as you explore the reasons why ABC is prohibited. With a seeking heart, you can enter through a new door and with grace be brought to a new place with the Lord.

crisismagazine.com/2014/upcoming-synod-must-address-family-disintegration

 

[Vico]

But jesus did not condemn contraception

St. Paul to the Galatians condemns use of substances to prevent pregnancy or abort, as practiced in those days, it was called sorcery (pharmakeia): See Gal 5:19-21

 

[Burdock]

This is my lastcpost on this subject, I do not believe that contraception is evil, it is not anti family, there are many reasons why couples may need to use it. The church should concentrate on other matters. Its like banging my head against a wall trying to get my point across, hardly any c a tholics follow this teaching. Its no wonder people are leaving the church. Many onvhere are so judgemental

 

[Arandur]

This is my lastcpost on this subject, I do not believe that contraception is evil, it is not anti family, there are many reasons why couples may need to use it. The church should concentrate on other matters. Its like banging my head against a wall trying to get my point across, hardly any c a tholics follow this teaching. Its no wonder people are leaving the church. Many onvhere are so judgemental

Are you perceiving disagreement and attempts to explain an alternative viewpoint with being judgmental?

I find that that is common–people don’t like to have to think about their positions or consider that they might be wrong or might have to change their behavior, and try to evade considering this with just saying “oh, they’re so judgmental,” which of course shuts down any attempt at dialogue or seeking the truth. If that’s why they are leaving the Church, it’s on them. That’s why people left Jesus. They didn’t like that he was explaining how they were wrong or needed to change their lives. They wanted their own “truth,” and to live as they wished.

Many here have listened to you and responded directly to your statements to show why they think those reasons (the few you have given so far) are inadequate to justify contraception, and then tried to explain their position (or the Church’s).

Could you do us the courtesy of having an actual discussion by responding to the reasons we have given and explaining why they are incorrect?

That’s what we need for a dialogue.

 

[St_Francis]

This is my lastcpost on this subject, I do not believe that contraception is evil, it is not anti family, there are many reasons why couples may need to use it.

As is easily seen by the breakdown of the family since really effective abc was made available and heavily promoted occurred in the 1960s. But this is not the reason the Church teaches against the use of abc–the real reason is that the marital act is a gift to us and we sully it when we set out to render it sterile.

Now, this applies to contraception *as *contraception. There are women who have health problems and are given a hormonal treatment which is filled by the Pill. Ths is medical treatment, which is a totally different issue, because the Pill is not being taken *as contraception. *

The church should concentrate on other matters.

The Church is large and focuses on many matters. For example, the Church is the largest charity in the entire world.

Its like banging my head against a wall trying to get my point across, hardly any c a tholics follow this teaching.

First of all, we don’t know how many Catholics follow this teaching. We’ve seen one “poll” which was seriously flawed and made it look like practically every Catholic woman spent her entire life from menarche to menopause on the Pill for the purpose of contracepting.

Secondly, the fact that everyone believes something does not make it true. You are suggesting that what the Church teaches is made up of the opinions of the laity rather than being **what God teaches us about how to attain Heaven. **The Church would be derelict in its duty to teach, which Christ commanded.

Its no wonder people are leaving the church.

Imagine if a wife was told by her husband, Do this thing you believe to be wrong or I will leave you. Wouldn’t you say that was abusive?

Christ Himself was met with this scenario when He explained about the Eucharist. We have free will, and God does not force us to come to Him.

Many onvhere are so judgemental

We are not being judgemental; we are explaining church teaching. Explaining a law or rule is not being judgemental.

 

[Burdock]

We are sexual beings, and although obviously the main purpose of sex is to produce offspring, it is not the only reason. The church teaches that oral sex and masturbation is also wrong, but some people may not be able to have penetrative sex for some reason, masturbation is a normal stage of puberty, saying that you should abstain if you dont want to have children or use nfp is unreasonable. I can understand that the pill is an abortifacient, but I cant see the problem with condoms.

 

[Burdock]

We are sexual beings, and although obviously the main purpose of sex is to produce offspring, it is not the only reason. The church teaches that oral sex and masturbation is also wrong, but some people may not be able to have penetrative sex for some reason, masturbation is a normal stage of puberty, saying that you should abstain if you dont want to have children or use nfp is unreasonable. I can understand that the pill is an abortifacient, but I cant see the problem with condoms.

 

[Arandur]

We are sexual beings, and although obviously the main purpose of sex is to produce offspring, it is not the only reason.

Please explain. What other reasons do you think it is for?

The Church teaches that it is also for unitive purposes.

The church teaches that oral sex and masturbation is also wrong, but some people may not be able to have penetrative sex for some reason, masturbation is a normal stage of puberty, saying that you should abstain if you dont want to have children or use nfp is unreasonable. I can understand that the pill is an abortifacient, but I cant see the problem with condoms.

So your argument is that since masturbation is “normal,” so must be okay? Please explain more deeply than that. Sin is normal. In our culture, hooking up, promiscuity, co-habitation are all “normal.” Does that make them okay?

You are saying that NFP/abstinence is unreasonable. Why?

You say you can’t see the problem with condoms. Many people have explained (just some of the many) reasons why contraception is wrong. Would you please respond to those reasons and explain why you think they are invalid?

We can’t have a dialogue if there is no back and forth. Continuing to make assertions without explaining them and without addressing what other people have said in response to your assertions is not dialogue.

Many people here have been trying to discuss with you reasons. Can you please discuss, and go beyond repeated assertions (with no reasons provided and no counterarguments)?