How come so many catholics can't follow the Law of the Church.

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BlaineTog said:
I think it’s a false assumption. No one knows the depths of the heart except for God, and we certainly don’t know what happens to a person at and just after the moment of death. I suspect we all get one last chance as we die to let God exalt us, though obviously it’s extremely foolish to bank on this.
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The chruch doesn’t teach that anyone gets any kind of last chance. It seems to me that if the Church can teach how we may get to hell in lengthy minutia, it would also be abel to answer my initial question.
 
MelanieAnne said:
I have no doubt that we all receive as much mercy as we earnestly desire.
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So, a person who plans on going to confession but dies before hand, as long as they desired mercy is forgiven? I don’t think the Church teaches this.
 
expectthebest said:
So, a person who plans on going to confession but dies before hand, as long as they desired mercy is forgiven? I don’t think the Church teaches this.
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The Church does have an understanding that things may occure, through no fault of your own, that keep you from obtaining a sacrament. That said, someone in need of confession, who understands the need, is sorry for their sins, and intends to go MAY be granted nercy by God at the time of death. There is no way to be certain of this, as we do not know how many times they passed on confession before for the same sin.

WE should not ever count of a deathbed covnersion or deathbed forgiveness. It may happen way to fast for that.
 
expectthebest said:
So, a person who plans on going to confession but dies before hand, as long as they desired mercy is forgiven? I don’t think the Church teaches this.
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I was distinguishing between those earnestly desire mercy and those who are not as sincere. Apparently you have another question and I am not sure what it is.

Those that earnestly desire mercy will seek out God’s grace and amend their lives as best they can. Those who are not as sincere, will not make the same effort. As a result, some might perceive that there is some sort of unbalance, but it is an imbalance made by humans, not by God.
 
expectthebest said:
Good points. Still doesn’t really explain why one might receive more mercy than another though.
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Obtaining mercy requires capacity to receive it.
expectthebest said:
So, a person who plans on going to confession but dies before hand, as long as they desired mercy is forgiven? I don’t think the Church teaches this.
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It does, actually. If you sin, realize you have sinned, immediatelly head to the church to seek confession, and get hit by a drunk driver and die before you get there, the Church teaches that God will forgive you, since you earnestly desired to go at the earliest opportunity and were prevented through no fault of your own. You still have to go to confession if you don’t get into a car accident, but God isn’t petty.
 
BlaineTog said:
Obtaining mercy requires capacity to receive it.

It does, actually. If you sin, realize you have sinned, immediatelly head to the church to seek confession, and get hit by a drunk driver and die before you get there, the Church teaches that God will forgive you, since you earnestly desired to go at the earliest opportunity and were prevented through no fault of your own. You still have to go to confession if you don’t get into a car accident, but God isn’t petty.
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Ok. So, what are the criteria for going to confession “as soon as you can”? Does this mean waking the priest up in the middle of the night? Does it mean going to confession at the regular allotted time? Does it mean that another obligation might keep you from going that week? What exactly does it mean?
 
expectthebest said:
Ok. So, what are the criteria for going to confession “as soon as you can”? Does this mean waking the priest up in the middle of the night? Does it mean going to confession at the regular allotted time? Does it mean that another obligation might keep you from going that week? What exactly does it mean?
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It means go as soon as you can. This isn’t an additional systemization but rather an extension granted of mercy. Just go when you can, and put your trust in God.
 
BlaineTog said:
Obtaining mercy requires capacity to receive it.

It does, actually. If you sin, realize you have sinned, immediatelly head to the church to seek confession, and get hit by a drunk driver and die before you get there, the Church teaches that God will forgive you, since you earnestly desired to go at the earliest opportunity and were prevented through no fault of your own. You still have to go to confession if you don’t get into a car accident, but God isn’t petty.
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For most sins yes, but there are still some which can only be expedited by the Sacrament.

I was told by our PP that some grave sins even if you were in the Confessional and the priest was called away, you are still in a state of grave sin until the absolution is given and you may not receive the Holy Eucharist. ‘intent’ he said is not expedience!

Some are also so serious that a Priest is not authorised to absolve them. Absolution of such must come from a Bishop
 
Lilyflower said:
For most sins yes, but there are still some which can only be expedited by the Sacrament.

I was told by our PP that some grave sins even if you were in the Confessional and the priest was called away, you are still in a state of grave sin until the absolution is given and you may not receive the Holy Eucharist. ‘intent’ he said is not expedience!

Some are also so serious that a Priest is not authorised to absolve them. Absolution of such must come from a Bishop
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Please elaborate.
 
Aaron409 said:
I just don’t understand why supposeded catholics can’t follow rules set by their spiritual leaders, and by the ten commandments . For example birth control and condoms. They are strictly forbidden yet people always try to justify their uses. Same goes for abortion if the numbers i saw were correct than 50% of catholics think abortion is ok! Seems a little ridiculas to me. Any thoughts?
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The blessing/curse of free will, and the burden of the ego. Ego leads to division. Humility leads to unity. Ego knows more than do 2,000 years of Apostles and their successors. Ego knows more than the martyrs did. Ego knows more than common sense does. Humility senses that the self is not the center of knowledge, and so seeks that center. Once having found it, humility then remains in obedience.

Christ’s peace.
 
Lilyflower said:
For most sins yes, but there are still some which can only be expedited by the Sacrament.
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No such thing. Forgiveness is a gift of God. The Sacrament of Confession is simply how to get that forgiveness on-demand. God is capable of forgiving whoever he pleases whenever he pleases of what he pleases, as long as they somehow ask for forgiveness. This doesn’t mean you can count on extrasacramental forgiveness (nor should you), just that it is not, strictly speaking, the only way possible.
*I was told by our PP that some grave sins even if you were in the Confessional and the priest was called away, you are still in a state of grave sin until the absolution is given and you may not receive the Holy Eucharist. ‘intent’ he said is not expedience!
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Some are also so serious that a Priest is not authorised to absolve them. Absolution of such must come from a Bishop*
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If you can receive the sacrament of confession and choose not to, then you haven’t been absolved and you still need to go to confession. I’m not saying that intent alone is enough under ordinary circumstances, just that it’s enough if you die before being able to go through with it. Otherwise, the RCIA process would be grossly negligent in requiring catechumens to wait so long to be Baptized.
 
expectthebest said:
Please elaborate.
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Perhaps Lily was thinking of if you were not only in a state of mortal sin, but you were also excommunicated via some penalty in canon law. Certain types of excommunication are reserved to the bishop to lift. This won’t matter for the scenario of someone who repents and tries to go to confession but gets hit by a bus first. If, moved by grace, they repent in their heart with perfect charity on the way to the confessional, they are not going to go to hell, even if there was some penalty of canon law that they had.

An example of a reserved sort of penalty is if you are a priest and you break the seal of confession deliberately.
Can. 1388 §1. A confessor who directly violates the sacramental seal incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; one who does so only indirectly is to be punished according to the gravity of the delict.
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The purpose of canonical punishments is to help the person come to their senses, not to send them to hell.
 
Solution is simple. Catholics are the biggest hypocrites of all the religious groups.
 
Truth is if one does not follow the Catholic Church Teachings 100% they are not Catholics, plain and simple.
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By that definition there are not many Catholics, and never have been. Humans are notorious for NOT doing the right thing. Since it’s inception people have been disobedient to the Church and it’s teachings…it’s the nature of humans.

On the question of birth control I think the Church has done a VERY POOR job of explaining it’s position. Why is NATURAL BC ok and artificial NOT ok, shouldn’t it be INTENT that matters more than method? I think most people do NOT understand the Church’s position on Birth Control INCLUDING those that follow it.

The Church’s position on sex was greatly harmed by St. Augustines austere position that seemed to view sex as nothing more than a necessary evil.

As to other issues I chalk it up to poor catechesis.
 
Aaron409 said:
I just don’t understand why supposeded catholics can’t follow rules set by their spiritual leaders, and by the ten commandments.
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Because of our fallen, sinful nature?

Also, it’s not really something to get all worked up over. We’re all sinners. Whoopty-do. Fortunately, we have these wonderful things called Sacraments (especially Reconciliation and Eucharist) to help us repent of our wrongdoings and strengthen us to amend our ways.

If we choose not to use them, so be it. We all have free will to choose our own destruction, but sufficient grace is also given to avoid it.

Is it easy? No. Is it possible? Yes.

Oh, and it’s easy to tell who the younger guys are on the boards… they’re the ones who think it’s just NOT POSSIBLE to keep it in their pants! 😃 It’s always edifying to see man reduced to nothing more than a rutting animal who just can’t control his bodily urges. :rolleyes: (hint: maybe it’s actually WON’T, not CAN’T)
 
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