How could Adam and Eve sin?

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I think we can agree on the fact that Adam and Eve were created perfect. They were rational beings. They also were created Free. The questions is: How they could act against their nature, rationality? Their nature was perfect and not corrupted so they could not act against themselves.
 
I read your thoughts in the other thread. I just wanted to add a few things. You’re confused about the difference between God and Adam and Eve.

God is Perfection itself. Not just the source of all goodness and love, but Goodness and Love itself. He had no creator. He is eternal, had no beginning and will have no end. He does not change. It is impossible for God to sin or to do anything less than His perfect will.

This is hard for humans to comprehend. We want to see God through a human lens. But God is not bound by time and space like we are. He is sufficient and eternal unto Himself.

(If God were to sin, I think the universe itself would collapse. But that cannot happen…God has to be Good for the universe to continue to exist. If God were evil, then the conclusion of evil would be the annihilation of all matter).

Now, Adam and Eve were CREATED. This is important to remember…they were not little gods. They had a beginning and they were given instructions on how to live. They were able to be in the Garden on their own with free will. But they were not eternal beings with all the knowledge of the universe like God. They were just people, given an immortal soul, with no stain of sin, with no concept of shame, guilt, remorse, or malice.

They were able to be influenced by an evil outside force. God cannot be influenced. He created Lucifer and knows all that he intends. God knows every particle and atom in the universe and beyond. He knows how the full weigt of history plays out. He cannot be deceived. There is nothing that is unknown to Him. There is no “duping” God.

There is a HUGE difference between God and people. You need to see that difference to understand why we can foolishly choose sin and God cannot. Like Mrsdizzy said in the other thread, God is not a man with super powers.

You might enjoy the book Theology and Sanity by Frank Sheed…it is about intellectually understanding the truth about God.
 
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And just to clear up confusion for others, the OP is continuing discussion from here.
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Another "Why would God do this..." question Philosophy
Probably memorized the answer to this many decades ago, back in religion class, but I’ve forgotten it. Why would God send His Son to suffer and die a horrible death in reparation for our sins when all He would have had to do was simply forgive them? Seems He chose a rather sadistic means of satisfying His bruised ego. Bloody sacrifices belong in a primitive uncivilized society, not in a society composed of intelligent civilized people as were found 2000 years ago.
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Excellent explanation!

I’ll just add to it that Adam and Eve were created perfect HUMANS with free will. In other words, they were as “human” as any human can ever hope to be. This means that they were indeed limited and flawed even as they stood as perfect humans. Only God is perfection itself. In God there is no limit and no flaw.

God explained his rules for remaining in him. Adam and Eve knew what the expectations were. They, however remained free to choose otherwise. Eve, was convinced to go against God even though she knew full well that she should not. In return, she convinced Adam to go against God.
 
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Yes, exactly what I was trying to convey! 😃 There is such a gap between God and humans there is no comparing them. Might as well ask a pebble on the beach why it is not as mighty as the Earth itself.

We are made in God’s image, but we are not made as little gods. We were made Humans…and any one of us would have made the same bad choice that Adam and Eve made. So it’s fruitless trying to blame them for all the evil in the world. We can’t just pass the buck that easily.

We are all to blame and all responsible for putting Jesus on the Cross, save our Blessed Mother alone. Which is why we are also responsible for living our lives now in accordance with God’s will the best we can, and bringing the message of salvation to everyone.
 
God made them self determined. A perfection
 
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Im not a practicing Catholic but I look at it this way. I don’t think their nature is as big an issue as knowledge is. We know they didn’t have knowledge of good and evil yet. They had no way of knowing what was wrong. As is said on here many times full knowledge is needed for mortal sin. Without that I don’t think they could have sinned.
 
They didnt have knowledge of good and evil yet but they were given a command from God and disobeyed. A sin of disobedience.
 
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Adam and Eve fell to the sin of Pride, the very source of almost every single sin we can ever commit. Even Satan, created in near perfection (though still in statu vie), fell due to … PRIDE

did I win?
 
They were perfect as to their created natures and yet their ultimate perfection was yet to be obtained because that perfection involved the very thing that could cause them to become more or less perfect: their own wills. To the degree that we will rightly, in line with God’s will, our justice is all the greater. Another way to put this is that we’re to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength; a tall order which constitutes the very definition of man’s justice (when love of neighbor is included as well), which is why the Greatest Commandments are what they are. Adam & Eve weren’t “there” yet; God doesn’t force us to love because love can’t even “happen” unless it’s freely obtained and given. So these universal principles taught by the catechism apply to all humans, Adam & Eve as well as ourselves:

MAN’S FREEDOM

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27

I. FREEDOM AND RESPONSIBILITY

1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.
 
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Knowledge is required for mortal sin. They didn’t have knowledge thus they didn’t commit mortal sin.
 
wkj_123 said:
Knowledge is required for mortal sin. They didn’t have knowledge thus they didn’t commit mortal sin.
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Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That doesn’t mean they lacked moral discernment.

By eating of the tree, they doubted God’s goodness and attempted to take that goodness for themselves and make themselves the source of it.
God offered them life, they chose otherwise. By definition, they chose mortality.
 
They may not have had knowledge of good and evil but they had knowledge not to eat of the tree. Straight disobedience. I wonder if it wasn’t worse than a mortal sin?
 
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STT said:
I think we can agree on the fact that Adam and Eve were created perfect.
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No. What Scripture says is that they were “very good.” That’s quite different than ‘perfect’. 😉
 
ShowersofRoses said:
I read your thoughts in the other thread. I just wanted to add a few things. You’re confused about the difference between God and Adam and Eve…
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I am aware of the fact that God is perfection and the creation is perfect. The question is whether God could create perfection? If yes, why He didn’t? If no, why He bother with creation? It is obvious that something which is not perfection eventually sin.
ShowersofRoses said:
(If God were to sin, I think the universe itself would collapse. But that cannot happen…God has to be Good for the universe to continue to exist. If God were evil, then the conclusion of evil would be the annihilation of all matter).
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This is off topic but we are aware of natural evil.
ShowersofRoses said:
Now, Adam and Eve were CREATED. This is important to remember…they were not little gods. They had a beginning and they were given instructions on how to live. They were able to be in the Garden on their own with free will. But they were not eternal beings with all the knowledge of the universe like God. They were just people, given an immortal soul, with no stain of sin, with no concept of shame, guilt, remorse, or malice.
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That I agree. They however knew that they would die after eating the fruit. That is against very nature of any beings. The question is why they act against their nature? Well, you could say that Satan promised them to become like God and they apparently sinned because they wanted to become like God. This means that there was a conflict of interest in them, in one hand they wanted to become like God and not be like human, and in another hand they knew that they would die and they didn’t like that. We all have been in such a situation and know that one could eventually fail and sin when the temptation is very strong. Performing sin is just matter of time somethimes.

No need to say that the story is problematic since you cannot die once you become like God. They were promised that they would die by God and at the same time promised to become like God by Satan.
ShowersofRoses said:
They were able to be influenced by an evil outside force. God cannot be influenced. He created Lucifer and knows all that he intends. God knows every particle and atom in the universe and beyond. He knows how the full weigt of history plays out. He cannot be deceived. There is nothing that is unknown to Him. There is no “duping” God.
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So we are back to square one. Why God create something who eventually sin? Why God give Satan access to the Garden knowing the fact that He can influence Adam and Eve? Why God left the tree there knowing that they eventually eat from it?
ShowersofRoses said:
There is a HUGE difference between God and people…
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I agree with the difference.
 
Gorgias said:
No. What Scripture says is that they were “very good.” That’s quite different than ‘perfect’. 😉
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So even worst. They had better chance to resist sin if they were created perfect. Instead they were created very good which means that they had less chance to resist sin.
 
STT said:
I think we can agree on the fact that Adam and Eve were created perfect. They were rational beings. They also were created Free. The questions is: How they could act against their nature, rationality? Their nature was perfect and not corrupted so they could not act against themselves.
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  1. The angels were the first creatures created by God. They were tested. 1/3 failed the test
  2. Now it’s humanities turn to be tested. We do far worse. As Jesus warned us in advance, few will be saved
 
steve-b said:
I think we can agree on the fact that Adam and Eve were created perfect. They were rational beings. They also were created Free. The questions is: How they could act against their nature, rationality? Their nature was perfect and not corrupted so they could not act against themselves.
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So why we do against our nature? Our nature dictate that we should try to save ourselves.
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