How could good God create creatures with evil and good being?

[Bahman]

In my search for an answer to this question, I found a framework that I could live with while continuing to do the One Thing (get the ‘inside of the cup’ clean).

I’m not saying anything about the source of the explanation - just that it provided me with a useful concept that allowed me to stop tripping over the same stumbling block of the origin of evil. For me, it simply satisfies the ‘contradiction’ in an acceptable way.

Aquarian Gospel

Chapter 39

1. A feast in honour of the magian God was being held, and many men were gathered in Persepolis.
2. And on the great day of the feast the ruling magian master said, Within these sacred walls is liberty; whoever wills to speak may speak.
3. And Jesus standing in the midst of all the people, said, My brothers, sisters, children of our Father-God:
4. Most blest are you among the sons of men today, because you have such just conceptions of the Holy One and man.
5. Your purity in worship and in life is pleasing unto God; and to your master, Zarathustra, praise is due.
6. Well say you all, There is one God from whose great being there came forth the seven Spirits that created heaven and earth; and manifest unto the sons of men are these great Spirits in the sun, and moon, and stars.
7. But in your sacred books we read that two among these seven are of superior strength; that one of these created all the good; the other one created all that evil is.

8. I pray you, honoured masters, tell me how that evil can be born of that which is all good?

1. A magus rose and said, If you will answer me, your problem will be solved.
2. We all do recognize the fact that evil is. Whatever is, must have a cause, If God, the One, made not this evil, then, where is the God who did?

11. And Jesus said, Whatever God, the One, has made is good, and like the great first Cause, the seven Spirits all are good, and everthing that comes from their creative hands is good.
12. Now, all created things have colours, tones and forms their own; but certain tones, though good and pure themselves, when mixed, produce inharmonies, discordant tones.
13. And certain things, though good and pure, when mixed, produce discordant things, yea, poisonous things, that men call evil things.
14. So evil is the inharmonious blending of the colours, tones, or forms of good.
15. Now, man is not all-wise, and yet has will his own. He has the power, and he uses it, to mix God’s good things in a multitude of ways, and every day he makes discordant sounds, and evil things.

1. And every tone and form, be it of good, or ill, becomes a living thing, a demon, sprite, or spirit of a good or vicious kind.
2. Man makes his evil thus; and then becomes afraid of him and flees; his devil is emboldened, follows him away and casts him into torturing fires.
3. The devil and the burning fires are both the works of man, and none can put the fires out and dissipate the evil one, but man who made them both.
4. Then Jesus stood aside, and not a magus answered him.
5. And he departed from the throng and went into a secret place to pray.

I am sorry that your answer didn’t satisfy me. How possibly a mixture of different things with only good quality can lead to evil quality?

 

[RoseMary131]

I am sorry that your answer didn’t satisfy me.

When you write “I am sorry that your answer didn’t satisfy me,” or you reply “you didn’t answer my question”… what is it you are looking for or why are you searching or “asking”?

Some people ask questions because they want to learn about God from Catholic teachings.

Other’s want to use their questions simply for a point of opposing Catholic apologetics, etc.

If you explain the reasons for the questions you pose and the rebuttal positions you give, maybe it will help others to “answer your question” in a way that “satisfies” your quest.

 

[Bahman]

When you write “I am sorry that your answer didn’t satisfy me,” or you reply “you didn’t answer my question”… what is it you are looking for or why are you searching or “asking”?

Some people ask questions because they want to learn about God from Catholic teachings.

Other’s want to use their questions simply for a point of opposing Catholic apologetics, etc.

If you explain the reasons for the questions you pose and the rebuttal positions you give, maybe it will help others to “answer your question” in a way that “satisfies” your quest.

I already tried to answer him with posing one question, namely: How possibly a mixture of different things with only good quality can lead to evil quality?

 

[RoseMary131]

When you write “I am sorry that your answer didn’t satisfy me,” or you reply “you didn’t answer my question”… what is it you are looking for or why are you searching or “asking”?

Some people ask questions because they want to learn about God from Catholic teachings.

Other’s want to use their questions simply for a point of opposing Catholic apologetics, etc.

If you explain the reasons for the questions you pose and the rebuttal positions you give, maybe it will help others to “answer your question” in a way that “satisfies” your quest.

I already tried to answer him with posing one question, namely: How possibly a mixture of different things with only good quality can lead to evil quality?

My above question was not about your response to a specific person. My question is for the purpose of understanding your quest within your questions.

If we are misunderstanding “the why” behind your questions - we may present answers that answer what we “think” you are asking, but miss what you are actually looking to understand.

Are you Catholic - looking to understand the faith better?

Are you looking for teachings on God in general or from specifically Catholic teachings?

Are you looking to find why different faith groups teach different ideas?

Are you interested in showing God as different than Catholic teachings?

What is your quest? What are you seeking?

 

[Bruincello]

God did not create Evil
And certainly DID NOT put it inside us.
And there is not one CREATURE living that is CREATED evil. In creatures it is only a matter of being tamed by NATURE to be wild or friendly etc.
for us is just that when we humans turn away from GOD’s influences we get influenced by the other many things.

Only because our mind minds are mean’t to behave under influence of which it could be the mind or the heart and satan knows that, and depending on the source of that informative source is the out come. .

Satan is around doing just that coursing an ILLUSION against the people of GOD turning them and their FOCUS away from him (GOD),
making them think GOD is to blame for all the evil man and satan construct on this earth.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

You didn’t answer my question. Lets see if we could agree upon the following arguments:

Creatures are able to do good and evil.

-Humans- are able to do both good and evil. A rational soul is required to recognize the distinction, therefore, I do not believe that animals are capable of good or evil.

The act of evil either is the result of exposure to evil or something intrinsic. If it is intrinsic, it means that evil is inside us as a potential and could turns into act without any specific reason.

Evil is inside of us. We call it original sin. It is not an entity or being as you seem to suggest, but rather a certain lacking within ourselves that was created when Adam and Eve chose to reject God.

Now you tell me how we could possibly stray from God if this act is evil. My question specifically is, whether this act is the result of exposure to evil or something intrinsic. If it is intrinsic then we shouldn’t be blamed for having such a quality inside us because that is God who created evil inside us. If straying from God is the result of exposure to another evil, you have to tell me where is the initial source of that evil?

You are living under a flawed assumption. God did -not- create the evil by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t know how you’re arriving at that conclusion. That evil exists because beings chose to reject God. Satan rejected God, knowing full well what he was; and Adam & Eve chose to reject God, letting sin into the world. They are completely responsible for their actions, because it was a choice they made. Similarly, we are responsible for our actions because we chose them. I may be predisposed to alcoholism through genetics, but that doesn’t mean it’s not my fault for starting to drink and enabling that alcoholism to take command of my life.

You are trying to avoid responsibility for your choices. This is a waste of time, as you are responsible whether you want to be or not. Rather than trying to avoid responsibility, spend your time in a worthwhile pursuit like bettering yourself and working to overcome your failings.

 

[Richca]

How could good God create creatures with evil and good being?

If we accept that we have evil being as a potential that could lead to doing evil, then the question is how good God could create evil being inside us knowing that God could only do good things, unless we accept that there is a good purpose for creating evil inside us.

There is no such thing as evil being. For any being, in as much as it is a being is good. Being and good are controvertible terms. Evil denotes an absence or privation of good that would otherwise be natural or due to a being. For example, blindness is a privation or absence of good in a being which otherwise it would be natural for it to have sight.
God is the cause of all being for only He can cause being. But the moral defect of evil which is found in creatures of free will cannot be traced to God as to its cause because God is perfect and there is no defect in Him. Consequently, in as much as an evil act by a creature that has free will has being, God is the cause of the being of the evil act. In as much as their is an absence of good in the evil act or that it is defective, this is traced to the creature as to the cause.
Evil is found only in good as in its subject. But as I said above, it denotes an absence, privation, or defect in good. St Augustine says that evil is a tending to not-being.

 

[Jeanne1184]

I am sorry that your answer didn’t satisfy me. How possibly a mixture of different things with only good quality can lead to evil quality?

No worries…I only shared what worked for me; no obligation on your part to adopt the puppy and take it home.

As an example of how it ‘works’ for me: Let’s say there was an immortal human pure form and an immortal animal pure form. The mixing of these forms created unfortunate forms like human-headed animal bodies and animal-headed human bodies (Greek and Egyptian pictures/myths). And other forms like the lion-headed serpent.

When God had enough of this ‘cross-contamination’, he added limits to willfulness and washed the Earth clean. We were basically told, like the shore of the ocean, “You can go this far and no further in your disobedience.” We are given enough rope to hang ourselves, but not enough to be utterly ridiculous in the process of recognizing that unbridled/undisciplined thought/wilfulness leads to insanity.

I hope you find the explanation you seek. The ‘origin of evil’ bugged me for many, many years and kept me from believing “God is Love (period)”. Christ telling us that the ruler of this world is one of those ‘run amok forces’ was also helpful.

 

[tonyrey]

So without evil we are perfectly good. How people could do evil thing if there is no evil being inside us?

With their power to choose how to act.

 

[Gaiseric]

When one realizes that this creation is the shadow of the eternal, that this creation is the opposite of the eternal, that this creation is to the eternal as the penis is to the mind (note the man’s symmetry) then it becomes likely that this creation’s filth shadows, is opposite to, the eternal’s purity.

Satan is the opposite, the shadow of the Holy Ghost. Satan is a creature, the Holy Ghost isn’t. Satan is the most intelligent creature, knowing the truth, yet he lies, blasphemes against the Spirit i.e., against Truth itself. The Spirit lives, Satan dies because he commits the unpardonable sin.

The whole is beautiful.

 

[Gaiseric]

The eternal: God is the Rock, existence itself, logically preceding its essence, unlike anything else. God is most wise, He introspects. God’s introspection begets His self-knowledge, His essence, the Son of God. The Son of God is the essence of existence (not existence itself), this is a concept (please note: concept, a son) the Logos. God is an object. The Logos is what mathematicians & logicians so much love, they dwell therein. God is generous: creation. To create one needs a plan. This plan is a concept, the concept of the shadow of the eternal. The plan, being a concept, is in the realm of the conceptual, the Logos. To discover this plan one has to unfold, analyze the Logos. To analyze is to slaughter, the Logos, the book of life, is slaughtered. That slaughter permits creation.

The Son of Man is the shadow of the Son of God. They’re one. The Son of Man’s death = The Son of God’s analysis. The Son of Man’s death forbids Adam’s destruction, the Son of God’s analysis permits creation. Jesus is Moses’ serpent, the shadow of the Son of God.

Jesus is

the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13.8)

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (Isaiah 54)

 

[Bahman]

My above question was not about your response to a specific person. My question is for the purpose of understanding your quest within your questions.

If we are misunderstanding “the why” behind your questions - we may present answers that answer what we “think” you are asking, but miss what you are actually looking to understand.

Are you Catholic - looking to understand the faith better?

Are you looking for teachings on God in general or from specifically Catholic teachings?

Are you looking to find why different faith groups teach different ideas?

Are you interested in showing God as different than Catholic teachings?

What is your quest? What are you seeking?

My quest is to understand my self, creation and Self (God) without accepting any faith since I believe that our journey toward God, understanding self and creation is never paradox/anomaly free, hence we have to be open with new ideas, discuss them openly and accept them as temporary substrate to see and look farther.

 

[Bahman]

God did not create Evil
And certainly DID NOT put it inside us.
And there is not one CREATURE living that is CREATED evil. In creatures it is only a matter of being tamed by NATURE to be wild or friendly etc.
for us is just that when we humans turn away from GOD’s influences we get influenced by the other many things.

Only because our mind minds are mean’t to behave under influence of which it could be the mind or the heart and satan knows that, and depending on the source of that informative source is the out come. .

Satan is around doing just that coursing an ILLUSION against the people of GOD turning them and their FOCUS away from him (GOD),
making them think GOD is to blame for all the evil man and satan construct on this earth.

How Satan turned into devil?, and please read post #13.

 

[Bahman]

Angels, like people, have free will - to serve and love God or to serve themselves.

Those angels who choose not to serve God - are the fallen angels.

See Revelations 12 - on this USCCB link you can read the chapter and the commentary.

usccb.org/bible/revelation/12/

See the Catechism of the Catholic Church: usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/OEBPS/14-chapter4.xhtml

CCC: 299 Because God creates through wisdom, his creation is ordered: “You have arranged all things by measure and number and weight.” The universe, created in and by the eternal Word, the “image of the invisible God,” is destined for and addressed to man, himself created in the “image of God” and called to a personal relationship with God. Our human understanding, which shares in the light of the divine intellect, can understand what God tells us by means of his creation, though not without great effort and only in a spirit of humility and respect before the Creator and his work. Because creation comes forth from God’s goodness, it shares in that goodness — “And God saw that it was good… very good”

for God willed creation as a gift addressed to man, an inheritance destined for and entrusted to him. On many occasions the Church has had to defend the goodness of creation, including that of the physical world.

310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite power God could always create something better. But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world “in a state of journeying” toward its ultimate perfection. In God’s plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection.

311 Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil. He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it:

For almighty God… , because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

How did they fall? Please also read post #13.

 

[Bahman]

Evil is inside of us. We call it original sin. It is not an entity or being as you seem to suggest, but rather a certain lacking within ourselves that was created when Adam and Eve chose to reject God.

I am glad to hear that I finally find someone who believe that Evil is inside us. Can you please tell me who those soul who where just good suddenly turn into devil and good. I mean that was act eating the fruit or deciding to eat the fruit. If that was act of eating fruit then fruit has something evil inside so God create something evil which was the fruit. If it was the act of decision, then you have to explain to me where the source of this evil decision is since there were good souls and could not whatsoever perform evil act (turning away from God).

You are living under a flawed assumption. God did -not- create the evil by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t know how you’re arriving at that conclusion. That evil exists because beings chose to reject God. Satan rejected God, knowing full well what he was; and Adam & Eve chose to reject God, letting sin into the world. They are completely responsible for their actions, because it was a choice they made. Similarly, we are responsible for our actions because we chose them. I may be predisposed to alcoholism through genetics, but that doesn’t mean it’s not my fault for starting to drink and enabling that alcoholism to take command of my life.

You are trying to avoid responsibility for your choices. This is a waste of time, as you are responsible whether you want to be or not. Rather than trying to avoid responsibility, spend your time in a worthwhile pursuit like bettering yourself and working to overcome your failings.

First there is no concept of original sin for angel (eating fruit). My question from you is whether angles could perform good or evil before their fall? If no, how did they fall?, if yes where they did get it from?

 

[Bahman]

There is no such thing as evil being. For any being, in as much as it is a being is good. Being and good are controvertible terms. Evil denotes an absence or privation of good that would otherwise be natural or due to a being. For example, blindness is a privation or absence of good in a being which otherwise it would be natural for it to have sight.

How the absence of good as could raise to evil action then? I mean good can act as a force for performing good action, and its absence leads into lack of good action but not evil action. For evil action we need evil force.

 

[Bahman]

With their power to choose how to act.

And what this power to to choose and perform evil is? Is it good or is lack of good?

 

[Bahman]

When one realizes that this creation is the shadow of the eternal, that this creation is the opposite of the eternal, that this creation is to the eternal as the penis is to the mind (note the man’s symmetry) then it becomes likely that this creation’s filth shadows, is opposite to, the eternal’s purity.

Satan is the opposite, the shadow of the Holy Ghost. Satan is a creature, the Holy Ghost isn’t. Satan is the most intelligent creature, knowing the truth, yet he lies, blasphemes against the Spirit i.e., against Truth itself. The Spirit lives, Satan dies because he commits the unpardonable sin.

The whole is beautiful.

Satan also is a creation. First, what was his unpardonable sin. Second, how he could perform that sin? I mean what was the source evil act. And last, why we should blame Satan for our bad intention, thought and acts?

 

[Jeanne1184]

When a child is born, it is a joy for the family. This child is perfectly form from the womb mysteriously. It is God’s act in human formation in the womb. There is nothing evil in this little child. His being came to be out of God’s design and was born as he is human and spiritual.

Therefore from the beginning there is no such thing as evil inside as you said. I think you are mixed up with the concept of sin; original sin, and in a later stage in the idea of sin, free will, choice, action, fully consent, deliberate etc that constitute the state of being evil.

All human beings were created good, for good in God’s goodness. God created us in own image and likeness.

I hope this helps your misunderstanding.

My understanding is that children go to heaven when they die before the age of reason because they have no knowledge of sin - not because their hearts are pure. Think of a 2 y.o. and “Me! Mine!” and knocking their brother or sister up side the head with a toy in anger. They simply aren’t held accountable because their dendrites haven’t been properly pruned yet.

James 1:15 (KJV) - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Psalm 51:5 (KJV) - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Young’s Literal Translation - Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother conceive me.

((This literal translation is spooky. Sounds like maybe I was ‘called forth’ by the archon (I was already a minion of his? - and then was conceived in sin on top of that! Double whammy. ))

I understand the desire to see babies as fully angelic but the Bible (nor my experience with them) supports the idea - at least not past the first few months.

The part that I contemplate occasionally is Christ saying that if anyone turns a child away from Him, it would be better for them to have a millstone around their neck, etc. It’s kinda like along with the imp, there is a ‘good angel’ also present that will gravitate natually to spiritual teachings.

Hmmmm. Perhaps you are correct in one sense, afterall. But it would have to be that the ‘imp spirit’ was ‘called forth in iniquity’ by the Archon who rules this world, then conceived in lust/sexual sin - but upon taking the first breath (cause we are lifeless once unplugged from the womb), we receive the ‘good angel/Breath of Life’ from the True God. And the spiritual battle is on. The Archon uses us to get his rascals onto the earth with a desire to extinguish all the ‘good angel’ Light?

Interesting theory…will have to think it through some more with, hopefully, more Clarity arriving.

 

[sacredheart777]

Then where an evil act, like and rape, etc could come from?

Rape is morally wrong and morally evil. In your concern post that is evil. This does not mean that Human beings are born with evil as you said to rape. The correct term is original sin which is cleansed in baptism and life united with Jesus Christ. Where could an evil act like rape come from? It comes from an outside evil source namely Lucifer and deliberately chose out of free will. This is not what life meant to be. All humanity is called by God through Jesus Christ to do good.
I hope it becomes more clearer to your concern.