How could good God create creatures with evil and good being?

[Bahman]

How could good God create creatures with evil and good being?

If we accept that we have evil being as a potential that could lead to doing evil, then the question is how good God could create evil being inside us knowing that God could only do good things, unless we accept that there is a good purpose for creating evil inside us.

 

[tonyrey]

How could good God create creatures with evil and good being?

If we accept that we have evil being as a potential that could lead to doing evil, then the question is how good God could create evil being inside us knowing that God could only do good things, unless we accept that there is a good purpose for creating evil inside us.

There is no such thing as “evil being inside us”!

 

[Bahman]

There is no such thing as “evil being inside us”!

So without evil we are perfectly good. How people could do evil thing if there is no evil being inside us?

 

[sacredheart777]

When a child is born, it is a joy for the family. This child is perfectly form from the womb mysteriously. It is God’s act in human formation in the womb. There is nothing evil in this little child. His being came to be out of God’s design and was born as he is human and spiritual.

Therefore from the beginning there is no such thing as evil inside as you said. I think you are mixed up with the concept of sin; original sin, and in a later stage in the idea of sin, free will, choice, action, fully consent, deliberate etc that constitute the state of being evil.

All human beings were created good, for good in God’s goodness. God created us in own image and likeness.

I hope this helps your misunderstanding.

 

[Qoeleth]

The universe and a human being is a complex thing. God saw them, and said, “They are good”. He did not say, “They are perfect.”

 

[Qoeleth]

When a child is born, it is a joy for the family. This child is perfectly form from the womb mysteriously. It is God’s act in human formation in the womb. There is nothing evil in this little child. His being came to be out of God’s design and was born as he is human and spiritual.

Therefore from the beginning there is no such thing as evil inside as you said. I think you are mixed up with the concept of sin; original sin, and in a later stage in the idea of sin, free will, choice, action, fully consent, deliberate etc that constitute the state of being evil.

All human beings were created good, for good in God’s goodness. God created us in own image and likeness.

I hope this helps your misunderstanding.

We must remember Original Sin. “Behold, I was formed in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”- Psalm 50

We enter the world in filth and blood, cry and wailing, against our will, conceived in an act of lust, which everyone would blush to do before others. We depart decrepit and forgotten, bowed with age, time and regret. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes. Concipit ergo cum inmunditia et fetore, parit cum tristitia et dolore, nutrit cum angustia et labore, custodit cum instantia et timore. Sicut est vita omnium hominum, usque fuga mortis…

We are all guilty when we are born, when we are conceived. That is why God sent His Son…

 

[Bahman]

We must remember Original Sin. “Behold, I was formed in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”- Psalm 50

We enter the world in filth and blood, cry and wailing, against our will, conceived in an act of lust, which everyone would blush to do before others. We depart decrepit and forgotten, bowed with age, time and regret. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes. Concipit ergo cum inmunditia et fetore, parit cum tristitia et dolore, nutrit cum angustia et labore, custodit cum instantia et timore. Sicut est vita omnium hominum, usque fuga mortis…

We are all guilty when we are born, when we are conceived. That is why God sent His Son…

How about angles? Could they do evil and good?

 

[Bahman]

When a child is born, it is a joy for the family. This child is perfectly form from the womb mysteriously. It is God’s act in human formation in the womb. There is nothing evil in this little child. His being came to be out of God’s design and was born as he is human and spiritual.

Therefore from the beginning there is no such thing as evil inside as you said. I think you are mixed up with the concept of sin; original sin, and in a later stage in the idea of sin, free will, choice, action, fully consent, deliberate etc that constitute the state of being evil.

All human beings were created good, for good in God’s goodness. God created us in own image and likeness.

I hope this helps your misunderstanding.

Then where an evil act, like and rape, etc could come from?

 

[Bahman]

I think you are mixed up with the concept of sin; original sin, and in a later stage in the idea of sin, free will, choice, action, fully consent, deliberate etc that constitute the state of being evil.

It doesn’t matter how many concepts you put one after another. Where the concept of evil originally comes from? It couldn’t comes out of nothingness! We are creatures and can neither create any concept nor experience evil if they don’t exist.

 

[Starrsmother]

How could good God create creatures with evil and good being?

If we accept that we have evil being as a potential that could lead to doing evil, then the question is how good God could create evil being inside us knowing that God could only do good things, unless we accept that there is a good purpose for creating evil inside us.

God created Satan–and when He did so, Satan was good. God created Adam and Eve and they were good too. The problematic part is that He chose to give both angels and mankind free will. Thus it is the creature turning away from God–the ultimate good Who created us–that causes us to do evil. Even Jeffrey Dahmer was created good and had the capacity to be good. When a person decides they would rather do bad than good then that is man’s choice—not God’s choice for us. Interestingly though, God is good enough that He is willing to forgive us for turning away from Him if we truly repent and turn back to Him.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

It doesn’t matter how many concepts you put one after another. Where the concept of evil originally comes from? It couldn’t comes out of nothingness! We are creatures and can neither create any concept nor experience evil if they don’t exist.

Evil arose from a rejection of God. If God is the totality of good, then anything which strays from God cannot be good. If it is not good, we classify it as evil.

 

[RoseMary131]

So without evil we are perfectly good. How people could do evil thing if there is no evil being inside us?

There is not an “evil being inside” of people.

How do you describe this “evil being inside us”?

How many “beings” are each of us?

 

[Bahman]

Evil arose from a rejection of God. If God is the totality of good, then anything which strays from God cannot be good. If it is not good, we classify it as evil.

You didn’t answer my question. Lets see if we could agree upon the following arguments:

Creatures are able to do good and evil. The act of evil either is the result of exposure to evil or something intrinsic. If it is intrinsic, it means that evil is inside us as a potential and could turns into act without any specific reason.

Now you tell me how we could possibly stray from God if this act is evil. My question specifically is, whether this act is the result of exposure to evil or something intrinsic. If it is intrinsic then we shouldn’t be blamed for having such a quality inside us because that is God who created evil inside us. If straying from God is the result of exposure to another evil, you have to tell me where is the initial source of that evil?

 

[Bahman]

There is not an “evil being inside” of people.

Then how people could do crime, kill, rape, steal, …

How do you describe this “evil being inside us”?

Haven’t you ever become very angry with someone in your life, increase the rate that anger to the extreme, add a knife to the scene, then you could become a criminal. As simple as that. Could you tell me what is the source of anger? Anger= one aspect of evil.

How many “beings” are each of us?

I don’t exactly know, maybe infinite.

 

[RoseMary131]

We must remember Original Sin. “Behold, I was formed in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”- Psalm 50

We enter the world in filth and blood, cry and wailing, against our will, conceived in an act of lust, which everyone would blush to do before others. We depart decrepit and forgotten, bowed with age, time and regret. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes. Concipit ergo cum inmunditia et fetore, parit cum tristitia et dolore, nutrit cum angustia et labore, custodit cum instantia et timore. Sicut est vita omnium hominum, usque fuga mortis…

We are all guilty when we are born, when we are conceived. That is why God sent His Son…

While some people may be conceived after “an act of lust” or after an act of violence, conception is not sinful.

Conception happens after sexual union. Conception is a natural result from the union of egg and sperm. It is not sinful.

Sexual union from an act of lust or violence is a sin from the one acting in lust or violence.

Sexual union by a married couple as an act of love - unitive and open to life - **is a very holy action. **

While it is a very private time between spouses, and as you write “which everyone would blush to do before others” - being something that is private does not mean it is sinful.

We are not born in “filth”.

You write: “We depart decrepit and forgotten, bowed with age, time and regret.” While some people may die like this, it is not true of all. Many people die who will never be forgotten and die in a wonderful sense of peace without regret, without being “bowed” by any thing - but in pure peace, joy, and happiness.

You mean to quote Psalm 51 - which is about having original sin - not that sexual union or conception is sinful.

from USCCB usccb.org/bible/psalms/51/

7 Behold, I was born in guilt,
in sin my mother conceived me.
8 Behold, you desire true sincerity;
and secretly you teach me wisdom.
9 Cleanse me with hyssop, - that I may be pure;
wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.

• 51:7] In sin my mother conceived me: lit., “In iniquity was I conceived,” an instance of hyperbole: at no time was the psalmist ever without sin, cf. Ps 88:15, “I am mortally afflicted since youth,” i.e., I have always been afflicted. The verse does not imply that the sexual act of conception is sinful.

 

[RoseMary131]

How about angles? Could they do evil and good?

Angels, like people, have free will - to serve and love God or to serve themselves.

Those angels who choose not to serve God - are the fallen angels.

See Revelations 12 - on this USCCB link you can read the chapter and the commentary.

usccb.org/bible/revelation/12/

See the Catechism of the Catholic Church: usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/OEBPS/14-chapter4.xhtml

CCC: 299 Because God creates through wisdom, his creation is ordered: “You have arranged all things by measure and number and weight.” The universe, created in and by the eternal Word, the “image of the invisible God,” is destined for and addressed to man, himself created in the “image of God” and called to a personal relationship with God. Our human understanding, which shares in the light of the divine intellect, can understand what God tells us by means of his creation, though not without great effort and only in a spirit of humility and respect before the Creator and his work. Because creation comes forth from God’s goodness, it shares in that goodness — “And God saw that it was good… very good”

for God willed creation as a gift addressed to man, an inheritance destined for and entrusted to him. On many occasions the Church has had to defend the goodness of creation, including that of the physical world.

310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite power God could always create something better. But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world “in a state of journeying” toward its ultimate perfection. In God’s plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection.

311 Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil. He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it:

For almighty God… , because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

 

[Bahman]

Angels, like people, have free will - to serve and love God or to serve themselves.

Those angels who choose not to serve God - are the fallen angels.

What do you mean with serving God? God is complete and does not need to be served.

Also please see post #13 to see that there is a conflict in act of doing evil.

 

[RoseMary131]

Then where an evil act, like and rape, etc could come from?

Evil actions - sin - including rape - are the free will or free choice of people to place their will above the will of God.

God only wills us to be holy.

We are free to choose to do our own will - we can choose each action to be holy or sinful (evil).

God created us to be free people - not His puppets. We choose our own actions. He left us free to choose our own actions.

From the USCCB
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/morality/

Made in the Image of God

The most basic principle of the Christian moral life is the awareness that every person bears the dignity of being made in the image of God. He has given us an immortal soul and through the gifts of intelligence and reason enables us to understand the order of things established in his creation. God has also given us a free will to seek and love what is true, good, and beautiful.

Sadly, because of the Fall, we also suffer the impact of Original Sin, which darkens our minds, weakens our wills, and inclines us to sin. Baptism delivers us from Original Sin but not from its effects—especially the inclination to sin, concupiscence. Within us, then, is both the powerful surge toward the good because we are made in the image of God, and the darker impulses toward evil because of the effects of Original Sin.

But we should always remember that Christ’s dying and rising offers us new life in the Spirit, whose saving grace delivers us from sin and heals sin’s damage within us. Thus we speak of the value, dignity, and goal of human life, even with its imperfections and struggles.

Human life, as a profound unity of physical and spiritual dimensions, is sacred. It is distinct from all other forms of life, since it alone is imprinted with the very image of its Creator.

 

[Jeanne1184]

How could good God create creatures with evil and good being?

If we accept that we have evil being as a potential that could lead to doing evil, then the question is how good God could create evil being inside us knowing that God could only do good things, unless we accept that there is a good purpose for creating evil inside us.

In my search for an answer to this question, I found a framework that I could live with while continuing to do the One Thing (get the ‘inside of the cup’ clean).

I’m not saying anything about the source of the explanation - just that it provided me with a useful concept that allowed me to stop tripping over the same stumbling block of the origin of evil. For me, it simply satisfies the ‘contradiction’ in an acceptable way.

Aquarian Gospel

Chapter 39

1. A feast in honour of the magian God was being held, and many men were gathered in Persepolis.
2. And on the great day of the feast the ruling magian master said, Within these sacred walls is liberty; whoever wills to speak may speak.
3. And Jesus standing in the midst of all the people, said, My brothers, sisters, children of our Father-God:
4. Most blest are you among the sons of men today, because you have such just conceptions of the Holy One and man.
5. Your purity in worship and in life is pleasing unto God; and to your master, Zarathustra, praise is due.
6. Well say you all, There is one God from whose great being there came forth the seven Spirits that created heaven and earth; and manifest unto the sons of men are these great Spirits in the sun, and moon, and stars.
7. But in your sacred books we read that two among these seven are of superior strength; that one of these created all the good; the other one created all that evil is.

8. I pray you, honoured masters, tell me how that evil can be born of that which is all good?

1. A magus rose and said, If you will answer me, your problem will be solved.
2. We all do recognize the fact that evil is. Whatever is, must have a cause, If God, the One, made not this evil, then, where is the God who did?

11. And Jesus said, Whatever God, the One, has made is good, and like the great first Cause, the seven Spirits all are good, and everthing that comes from their creative hands is good.
12. Now, all created things have colours, tones and forms their own; but certain tones, though good and pure themselves, when mixed, produce inharmonies, discordant tones.
13. And certain things, though good and pure, when mixed, produce discordant things, yea, poisonous things, that men call evil things.
14. So evil is the inharmonious blending of the colours, tones, or forms of good.
15. Now, man is not all-wise, and yet has will his own. He has the power, and he uses it, to mix God’s good things in a multitude of ways, and every day he makes discordant sounds, and evil things.

1. And every tone and form, be it of good, or ill, becomes a living thing, a demon, sprite, or spirit of a good or vicious kind.
2. Man makes his evil thus; and then becomes afraid of him and flees; his devil is emboldened, follows him away and casts him into torturing fires.
3. The devil and the burning fires are both the works of man, and none can put the fires out and dissipate the evil one, but man who made them both.
4. Then Jesus stood aside, and not a magus answered him.
5. And he departed from the throng and went into a secret place to pray.

 

[RoseMary131]

What do you mean with serving God? God is complete and does not need to be served.

Also please see post #13 to see that there is a conflict in act of doing evil.

To Serve and Love God… means we offer to God - our whole selves - all of our actions, all of our love.

We serve God when we serve one another - when we love each other and all of God’s creations.

God does not need us to serve Him. However, He does desire us to be happy with Him forever in Heaven. Only that which is good can enter Heaven.

If we fill ourselves, our hearts, our souls, our desires with evil - we can not enter Heaven, as we must be pure. If we repent, we can be cleansed of our sins, or our evil actions - most likely through purgatory - and then we are clean and can enter Heaven.

God desires us to be perfectly happy with Him in Heaven for all Eternity. He has “no need” of us at His Heavenly Banquet - He desires this GIFT to us. He offers this gift of Eternity with Him as a GIFT to us. We accept or decline. He has no “need” for us to accept - but a desire to offer us Heaven with Him.

More from USCCB:
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/morality/

The Responsible Practice of Freedom

The second element of life in Christ is the responsible practice of freedom. Without freedom, we cannot speak meaningfully about morality or moral responsibility.

Human freedom is more than a capacity to choose between this and that. It is the God-given power to become who he created us to be and so to share eternal union with him. This happens when we consistently choose ways that are in harmony with God’s plan.

Christian morality and God’s law are not arbitrary, but specifically given to us for our happiness. God gave us intelligence and the capacity to act freely.

Ultimately, human freedom lies in our free decision to say “yes” to God. In contrast, many people today understand human freedom merely as the ability to make a choice, with no objective norm or good as the goal.