How could good God create creatures with evil and good being?

[mytruepower2]

No, it’s not. Isn’t satan an evil being?

Not as such. Satan is evil in -character,- in that all of his actions are directed towards moral evil, but he suffers under the fundamental goodness of his own existence. Even in the midst of all his other sufferings, he can’t escape the fact that it’s a better thing to exist than to not exist.

This also, if meant as a defense against what Bahman was originally saying, is circular.

The second point is meant merely to clarify the first.

 

[Starrsmother]

Not as such. Satan is evil in -character,- in that all of his actions are directed towards moral evil, but he suffers under the fundamental goodness of his own existence. Even in the midst of all his other sufferings, he can’t escape the fact that it’s a better thing to exist than to not exist.

The second point is meant merely to clarify the first.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but something that always bothered me–even as a little girl of 5 or 6–was how Satan, as an angel and spirit who was actually in a position to know and see God in all his power, might and majesty-- a being who was already in heaven and could witness God’s power and glory and commune with Him face to face–could have possibly decided to take God on and defy Him. I’m not in any way doubting that he did or that Satan exists exactly as scripture teaches us. I simply have always been confounded at what seems to me to be an act of utter and complete stupidity by an angel who was supposedly extremely intelligent and already had it “all” in a matter of speaking. I am not making excuses for humans sinning, but as humans we must believe in God mostly by faith. Satan, on the other hand, believed because he SAW and KNEW and WATCHED and still apparently decided to defy God!! It never ceases to amaze me when I think about it. WOW!!

 

[Bahman]

Yes! Persons are not machines. We are never compelled to love God - or anyone else…

BTW “suddenly” is incorrect because in the spiritual world there is no time or space.

My question was, how that good relationship turned into a bad relationship. What was the reason?

 

[JerryZ]

How could good God create creatures with evil and good being?

If we accept that we have evil being as a potential that could lead to doing evil, then the question is how good God could create evil being inside us knowing that God could only do good things, unless we accept that there is a good purpose for creating evil inside us.

God made us with free will! We choose wether to do good OR evil.

Now choose!

 

[JerryZ]

I don’t know about the rest of you, but something that always bothered me–even as a little girl of 5 or 6–was how Satan, as an angel and spirit who was actually in a position to know and see God in all his power, might and majesty-- a being who was already in heaven and could witness God’s power and glory and commune with Him face to face–could have possibly decided to take God on and defy Him. I’m not in any way doubting that he did or that Satan exists exactly as scripture teaches us. I simply have always been confounded at what seems to me to be an act of utter and complete stupidity by an angel who was supposedly extremely intelligent and already had it “all” in a matter of speaking. I am not making excuses for humans sinning, but as humans we must believe in God mostly by faith. Satan, on the other hand, believed because he SAW and KNEW and WATCHED and still apparently decided to defy God!! It never ceases to amaze me when I think about it. WOW!!

Well the Church teaches that even the Angels have free will.
They were given the choice at the beginning of their creation, while we are given it during our lifetimes.
In the end since this also is a part of God’s plan we can only see glimpses of it through our finite minds.
Revelation says that in the fullness of time we will all see and understand.

 

[Starrsmother]

Well the Church teaches that even the Angels have free will.
They were given the choice at the beginning of their creation, while we are given it during our lifetimes.
In the end since this also is a part of God’s plan we can only see glimpses of it through our finite minds.
Revelation says that in the fullness of time we will all see and understand.

I completely understand your point and agree with you 100%. I only meant my post as a simple personal observation–it makes me wonder sometimes, how any angel who obviously had a far greater and in depth grasp of exactly who they were dealing with when they dealt with God, would be brave enough or foolish enough or whatever you want to call it, to look God straight in the eye and annoy Him in any way. If Satan were a human being, I’d say that he had a death wish going into the whole situation involving the fallen angels!

 

[Bahman]

I completely understand your point and agree with you 100%. I only meant my post as a simple personal observation–it makes me wonder sometimes, how any angel who obviously had a far greater and in depth grasp of exactly who they were dealing with when they dealt with God, would be brave enough or foolish enough or whatever you want to call it, to look God straight in the eye and annoy Him in any way. If Satan were a human being, I’d say that he had a death wish going into the whole situation involving the fallen angels!

Never lets that your sense of wonder dies. To me there are several problems with story of fallen angels:

1. A good creation in presence of God, good being, never ever turns away from this relationship.
2. As you mentioned, it is quite foolish to look inside eyes God become an enemy God, knowing that God is ultimate power.
3. What could be gain in such a turn over, considering that Lucifer was the highest angel which turned into worst creature known, Satan.

This story doesn’t make sense at all especially when one wants to assign that to the origin of evil.

 

[Bahman]

Revelation says that in the fullness of time we will all see and understand.

Why revelation doesn’t reveal the truth instead for such important suject?

 

[RoseMary131]

Originally Posted by Bahman forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*I continue my quest by reading, thinking, discussing.

I **unfortunately ***don’t believe on praying.

                 Originally Posted by **RoseMary131**

                 [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11225395#post11225395)                 
             *Why is it **unfortunate ***that you don't believe on praying? *

No I don’t believe on praying.

You said “unfortunately” you don’t believe on praying?

My question is not “do you believe on praying”.

My question is: Why do you call it “unfortunately”?

 

[Bahman]

**

You said “unfortunately” you don’t believe on praying?

My question is not “do you believe on praying”.

My question is: Why do you call it “unfortunately”?

No specific reason, I didn’t want to be offensive

 

[RoseMary131]

Originally Posted by Bahman forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*No I don’t believe on praying. *

Then you are trapped in a mental world of your own and your God is useless!

Our world would be very different if our praying were useful. That doesn’t mean that God doesn’t hear them though but that is the right way to approach God in my opinion.

What do you mean: “Our world would be very different if our praying were useful.”

What does this mean: “That doesn’t mean that God doesn’t hear them though but that is the right way to approach God in my opinion.”

What is the right way to approach God in your opinion?

 

[RoseMary131]

No specific reason, I didn’t want to be offensive

What does it mean “I don’t want to be offensive”?

Offending who? Offending God? or possibly offending me if you answered?

You had stated that you unfortunately don’t believe in praying. There would be some sort of reason as to why you consider your own belief of not believing in praying to be “unfortunate.”

Maybe you haven’t identified the reason you feel or call not believing in praying to be “unfortunate”.

 

[RoseMary131]

My quest is to understand my self, creation and Self (God) without accepting any faith since I believe that our journey toward God, understanding self and creation is never paradox/anomaly free, hence we have to be open with new ideas, discuss them openly and accept them as temporary substrate to see and look farther.

From what faith or thoughts or idea - do you refer to God by the name Self with a capital S.

What distinction do you use between self and Self?

 

[Bahman]

What do you mean: “Our world would be very different if our praying were useful.”

What does this mean: “That doesn’t mean that God doesn’t hear them though but that is the right way to approach God in my opinion.”

What is the right way to approach God in your opinion?

Answer to your first question: Our world hasn’t changed as result of praying but suffering in knowing ourselves and universe.

Answer to your second question: God knows what is inside our mind, knows what we exactly need, so it doesn’t need that we ask for them. God would provide you what is needed.

Answer to your third question: To know yourself, so through that you could know your God.

 

[Bahman]

From what faith or thoughts or idea - do you refer to God by the name Self with a capital S.

What distinction do you use between self and Self?

Answer to your first question: That is only the result of my thought.

Answer to your second question: They are in different state of mind.

 

[RoseMary131]

What do you mean: “Our world would be very different if our praying were useful.”

Answer to your first question: Our world hasn’t changed as result of praying but suffering in knowing ourselves and universe.

How do you know that our world has not changed as a result of praying?

What do you mean “but suffering in knowing ourselves and universe”?

What does this mean: “That doesn’t mean that God doesn’t hear them though but that is the right way to approach God in my opinion.”

Answer to your second question: God knows what is inside our mind, knows what** we **exactly need, so it doesn’t need that we ask for them. God **would **provide **you **what is needed.

You say that God knows what is inside our minds and God Would provide what is needed. Are you saying that God **would **provide or that God does provide what is needed.

Does your God provide your needs to you?

What is the right way to approach God in your opinion?

Answer to your third question: To know yourself, so through that you could know your God.

Do you mean that we each have our own God?

Do you mean that if we know ourselves, then we know our own God?

Do you mean that since you know yourself, then your own God knows your own needs, therefore you do not pray to your own God as your own God already knows your needs.

 

[tonyrey]

My question was, how that good relationship turned into a bad relationship. What was the reason?

1. Only God is omniscient.
2. All created beings have limited knowledge and are subject to temptation.
3. The greatest temptation is to acquire as much power as possible.
4. That is why some individuals choose to reject God and live for themselves.

 

[RoseMary131]

From what faith or thoughts or idea - do you refer to God by the name Self with a capital S.

Answer to your first question: That is only the result of my thought.

Are you saying: On your own journey to know self, creation, and Self (God), - you have concluded God to be referred to as Self.

Is your conclusion based only on your own thoughts and not from others?

What distinction do you use between self and Self?

Answer to your second question: They are in different state of mind.

Are you saying your conclusion is self and Self (God) are different state of mind within each person?

Do you mean that you believe that there is no God the Creator as believed in the faith of Christians, Jews, or Muslims?

 

[Bahman]

How do you know that our world has not changed as a result of praying?

What do you mean “but suffering in knowing ourselves and universe”?

You say that God knows what is inside our minds and God Would provide what is needed. Are you saying that God **would **provide or that God does provide what is needed.

Does your God provide your needs to you?

Do you mean that we each have our own God?

Do you mean that if we know ourselves, then we know our own God?

Do you mean that since you know yourself, then your own God knows your own needs, therefore you do not pray to your own God as your own God already knows your needs.

Answer to your first question: How do you know that God does listen to prayer. How do you know that we are not resisting God by our praying constantly asking something which is known by God.

Answer to your second question: I mean we create a better world for ourselves by trying to know what is universe and how it functions. A big part of thing that call it moral law is also the result of our suffering. You can add to this an large list, our social system, government, etc.

Answer to your third question: Would.

Answer to your fourth question: Sure, as far as needed.

Answer to your fifth question: There is only one God, but we cannot possibly experience the same God in the same manner.

Answer to your sixth question: The only door to God is through yourself, of course not through your senses.

 

[Bahman]

1. Only God is omniscient.

I think when revelation has to say something when it comes to a such a critical problem like the origin of evil.

1. All created beings have limited knowledge and are subject to temptation.

Temptation to what? To become God what is logically impossible.

1. The greatest temptation is to acquire as much power as possible.

How you could acquire power? In case Satan, if he is really standing against God, why God just dose not arrest him right now and put an end on his madness or simply wanish him.