How could good God create creatures with evil and good being?

[Bahman]

You said: Selves are created/given to us by God, and in potential has all the power to experience what God experience.

Are these selves that are created/ given to us by God in potential to have all the power to experience what God experience - are these selves limited to human or does potential to have all the power to experience what God experience also apply to other creations of God (animals, plants, mineral, angels, all of the universe and spiritual realm)?

This include animal, angels, insects, … all selves who have consciousness.

 

[Bahman]

Do you believe the God who Christians refer to as God the Creator exist?

I have several problem with Christian God, one of the most important one is omniscience (strong) meaning that God knows our destiny.

 

[Bahman]

The beginning of time wasn’t when he was created. He was created outside of time.

But you don’t believe that he was a devil since the first day of his creation.

Free will allows them to make irrational decisions.

Well, so there at least one person who thinks that that decision was irrational. But why they should made such a decision, there was lovely God there, and the relationship just was fine, and then one day they decide to turn away from God.

 

[Bahman]

What do you mean by “something”?

He said that it is mentioned in revelation that everything become clear at the end of time, and I question why revelation didn’t say anything about origin of evil, how it emerged, why it emerged, was it necessary and many important questions…

To become a rival to God.

Rival!, even we human who have never experience God fall in love with God, and they where there in Heaven, next to God and wanted to compete with God!

God has given it to us. How else do you think we control ourselves?

I mean how you could acquire the power to compete with God?

It would defeat the purpose of creating him - or anyone else - with free will. God is the Creator not the Destroyer! Your idea of God is very primitive…

So he failed God and God decided to give him the liberty to wander around us seducing us to do bad things. Moreover, it is clearly mentioned in Bible that he will be arrested and set into fire.

 

[sacredheart777]

I think we are in the right track. We normally assign our evil act to Satan to purify ourselves from possession of evil. The first problem is how we could so surely assign our evil acts to Satan? Why not accept that it are ours? The second main problem is either of us, human or Satan, were created with evil which rises an issue in creation of God.

How could you assign your evil act to satan to purify yourself from possession of evil? That is impossible. It is not ours unless you comply with it in action and free will. Human beings are not born with evil. Evil comes from satan. We are not created with evil but we are created with a soul and a being which is free and conscious of his being being and soul.

 

[Bahman]

How could you assign your evil act to satan to purify yourself from possession of evil? That is impossible. It is not ours unless you comply with it in action and free will. Human beings are not born with evil. Evil comes from satan. We are not created with evil but we are created with a soul and a being which is free and conscious of his being being and soul.

What is the deference between a human kid and Satan at time of his creation? If they are same then how possibly suddenly Satan could turn into devil? I mean where is origin of evil.

 

[tonyrey]

What do you mean by “something”?

Mk. 7:18-22 “And he [Jesus] said to them [his disciples], ‘Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever comes from without and enters into the man cannot defile him because it does not enter into his heart, but into the stomach and is eliminated out of the body.’ And he said, ‘What comes out of the man is what defiles the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, envy, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. ‘“

To become a rival to God.

Rival!, even we human who have never experience God fall in love with God, and they where there in Heaven, next to God and wanted to compete with God!

“fall in love” is romantic nonsense. We choose to love or not to love:

“If someone says, ‘I love God’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21
And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also…” 1 John 4:20

God has given it to us. How else do you think we control ourselves?

I mean how you could acquire the power to compete with God?

Do think God cannot give us the power to compete with Him? You are a man yet you impose limits on divine omnipotence! You underestimate His power…

It would defeat the purpose of creating him - or anyone else - with free will. God is the Creator not the Destroyer! Your idea of God is very primitive…

So he failed God and God decided to give him the liberty to wander around us seducing us to do bad things. Moreover, it is clearly mentioned in Bible that he will be arrested and set into fire.

God is not a jailer! He doesn’t want us to be slaves and respects our freedom.

The Evil One does not seduce us. He** tempts** us but we have the power to resist.

Where do you obtain your ideas about God?

 

[Bahman]

Mk. 7:18-22 “And he [Jesus] said to them [his disciples], ‘Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever comes from without and enters into the man cannot defile him because it does not enter into his heart, but into the stomach and is eliminated out of the body.’ And he said, ‘What comes out of the man is what defiles the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, envy, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. ‘“

I don’t understand what this verse has to do with origin of evil?

“fall in love” is romantic nonsense. We choose to love or not to love:

“If someone says, ‘I love God’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21
And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also…” 1 John 4:20

I don’t understand what this verse has to do with the concept of rebelling against God?

Do think God cannot give us the power to compete with Him? You are a man yet you impose limits on divine omnipotence! You underestimate His power…

So we don’t acquire the power but receive it from God? So Satan is opposing God since it received power to do so. Did God know about Satan rebellion yet giving power to him?

God is not a jailer! He doesn’t want us to be slaves and respects our freedom.

So what is final destiny of Satan and fallen angel? There are several verses promising them fire.

Where do you obtain your ideas about God?

I got the idea of Christians God from Christian.

 

[tonyrey]

I don’t understand what this verse has to do with origin of evil?

 

[RoseMary131]

BTW RoseMary131 why do you put everything in blue?

I like BLUE!

I like color - even in writing.

 

[Bahman]

Evil comes from within a person. Where else?

From within, meaning that it is an intrinsic quality and people have it within since they are created this way.

I have already explained that it is due to the lust for power.
Don’t you think we are capable? If so why not?

Lust for power knowing that God is absolute power! I don’t think if neither us nor Satan are capable of seizing place of God and I am sure that better you know God more clearer it becomes that God is undefeatable, meaning that the concept of rebellion against God is a completely terrible idea.

Yes. Why not?

That is total nonsense. Giving half of your power to your creature then waiting for defeat.

If they are determined to reject God they must suffer by being isolated from God and those who love God.

Determined to reject God, for what reason? Being isolated, why they should bother if they are determined? What is fire by the way? How a loving God could throw his creature to Hell?

Do you believe in Heaven and Hell? If not why not?
Where did you get **your **ideas about God and man?

I don’t believe in Heaven and Hell as places as our final destiny after death. I believe our journey toward God is eternal and through this trip we get familiar with different form of suffering, good and bad, etc. It is a process that we grow up to become God but rejecting to become God.

 

[RoseMary131]

I have several problem with Christian God, one of the most important one is omniscience (strong) meaning that God knows our destiny.

What problem do you have with the Christian God knowing our destiny?

 

[RoseMary131]

Yes, we have the potential to become God otherwise the creation was not complete.

Originally Posted by RoseMary131 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif

Do you exist because God created you?

Answer to your seventh question: Yes.

You are saying: Each of us - including you, Bahman - has the potential to become God. You say you exist because God created you.

If in your potential you do become God - can you create other selves (other people) as well as other creation?

 

[Bahman]

What problem do you have with the Christian God knowing our destiny?

First, it is against our free will.

Second, what is the purpose of suffering in this picture considering the fact that God knows our destiny.

Third, the picture has consistency problem. Please read: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=824103

 

[Bahman]

You are saying: Each of us - including you, Bahman - has the potential to become God. You say you exist because God created you.

If in your potential you do become God - can you create other selves (other people) as well as other creation?

Yes, we can create other selves once we reach to appropriate level.

 

[SentinelofTruth]

Bahman:

Lust for power knowing that God is absolute power!

God does not “=” absolute power. He personifies power, having it to the perfect degree, but that does mean that God = power. Consider:
God = power
Therefore,
power = God
Therefore,
My army in TribalWars has 121685 God.
It’s absurd, isn’t it? This is why you can’t identify a substantive being with an abstract concept.

Bahman:

First, it is against our free will.

KIM (keep in mind) God doesn’t “foresee” our actions. He is outside of time, so he isn’t predicting them, rather, he has already seen them.

 

[tonyrey]

From within, meaning that it is an intrinsic quality and people have it within since they are created this way.
Lust for power knowing that God is absolute power! I don’t think if neither us nor Satan are capable of seizing place of God and I am sure that better you know God more clearer it becomes that God is undefeatable, meaning that the concept of rebellion against God is a completely terrible idea.
That is total nonsense. Giving half of your power to your creature then waiting for defeat.
Determined to reject God, for what reason? Being isolated, why they should bother if they are determined? What is fire by the way? How a loving God could throw his creature to Hell?
I don’t believe in Heaven and Hell as places as our final destiny after death. I believe our journey toward God is eternal and through this trip we get familiar with different form of suffering, good and bad, etc. It is a process that we grow up to become God but rejecting to become God.

You are entitled to your opinions but they don’t correspond to the reality of evil - which is evident in world events…

 

[Bahman]

You are entitled to your opinions but they don’t correspond to the reality of evil - which is evident in world events…

What is the reality of devil? Please don’t tell me that it is privation of good as you clearly stated with a verse that comes out from within.

 

[Bahman]

God does not “=” absolute power. He personifies power, having it to the perfect degree, but that does mean that God = power. Consider:
God = power
Therefore,
power = God
Therefore,
My army in TribalWars has 121685 God.
It’s absurd, isn’t it? This is why you can’t identify a substantive being with an abstract concept.

KIM (keep in mind) God doesn’t “foresee” our actions. He is outside of time, so he isn’t predicting them, rather, he has already seen them.

How God could predict our action knowing that we have free will.

 

[tonyrey]

What is the reality of devil? Please don’t tell me that it is privation of good as you clearly stated with a verse that comes out from within.

The reality of **all **evil persons is evident in the unnecessary suffering and death in the world - as in Nairobi - which deprives their victims of life and happiness. Do you agree? If not why not?