How could Judas have betrayed Christ?

[jcrichton]

I think the cause of indignation was percieved mismanagement of funds. They said; “For this might have been sold for much,”

I cannot concur since most people who keep books and are skimming tend to hide their actions very well–the other eleven could have had suspected something but there’s no clue in Scriptures that there had been mismanagement and that Judas had been cought in the act; the narrator might be speaking of facts that were not known at the time of the pertinent passage.

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Jesus’ response indicates the diciples attitude was from not understanding that He is going to His death.

…correct; again, this does not suggest that they had a beef with Judas mismanagement–other than John and his brother, I doubt that Jesus disciples were accustomed to opulence–an expensive perfume being wasted could very well remind them of some specially lean times when they had to go without food or wages or shelter or all it altogether…

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I believe it’s possible that Judas misread the other diciples concern for money and maybe saw it as a crack he could widen.

I still do not see it as Scrptures are silent about any subversiness among the disciples (outside of the sons of thunder wanting to be first and second); Judas seemed very self-involved… a person that sought to get a leg up but not one who would be willing to share–even ill-gotten gains…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Benadam]

I cannot concur since most people who keep books and are skimming tend to hide their actions very well–the other eleven could have had suspected something but there’s no clue in Scriptures that there had been mismanagement and that Judas had been cought in the act; the narrator might be speaking of facts that were not known at the time of the pertinent passage.

…correct; again, this does not suggest that they had a beef with Judas mismanagement–other than John and his brother, I doubt that Jesus disciples were accustomed to opulence–an expensive perfume being wasted could very well remind them of some specially lean times when they had to go without food or wages or shelter or all it altogether…

I still do not see it as Scrptures are silent about any subversiness among the disciples (outside of the sons of thunder wanting to be first and second); Judas seemed very self-involved… a person that sought to get a leg up but not one who would be willing to share–even ill-gotten gains…

Maran atha!

Angel

Dear Angel,

They were blaming the woman. They were in cahoots with Judas. His selfish concern for the community finances at some point became theirs. Money was a hot topic for some if not all of them and I think it possible Judas, as the treasurer, was behind it. Maybe Judas was attempting a power struggle even. Money was his tool. Maybe this is why so many of them weren’t confident eneogh to say " I know it’s not me" when Jesus told them the betrayer was among them.

 

[jcrichton]

I’ve never thought of that. Can you elaborate on this idea?

…we know that Judas is a non-Believer… his seeming ideal of a Messiah is one that would carry out temporal warfare against the Roman Empire… if anything he is an opportunist… a person that will follow anyone and anything in order to achieve his own goals (food, lodging, money…); Jesus holds nothing back about His fulfillment of Scriptures, including the fact that He would be betrayed and put to death; as time progresses the issue of His betrayal becomes a focal point of His intimate conversations with the Twelve… as Passover nears the issue of Jesus’ betrayal gets heated up… the Twelve need to know what Jesus knows… Judas maintains his plans (gain whatever at others’ expense) as Jesus does not fit his vision of the Messiah… there’s little to gain following this peace nut bent on dying… Satan enters the scene and Judas puts the plan into action: 30 pieces of silver–quite a purse for doing nothing more than pointing out someone in the dark…

It begins…

Jesus maintains His peace walk as He cures the injured servant… they thank Him by assaulting Him and carrying Him off as the worst of criminals… Judas, in mid flight, looks back and begins to see Jesus…

The silver that could provide him with some hours of pleasure (wine, drugs, females, food…) begin to feel heavier and heavier by the minute… his heart begins to pound so loudly that his head hurts… now his head begins to pound… it’s a race between a heart attack and a brain seizure… Judas’ “vision quest” has arriaved… he does not know it yet but he is becoming a man with a conscience… soon Jesus floods his mind… nearly three years of Teachings are awakening… Judas comes to two realizations: Jesus is a Just Man, and he betrayed the Just One of God…

…the new plan: take it back!

Judas knows that Jesus is suffering and might be put to death because of his betrayal… he attempts to stop the procedure… in his limited scope he thinks that returning the money would hault the event… he attempt to reason with men bent on tasting innocent blood… his heart drops and his mind is just this side of exploding as he is ignored and put out of the Temple… ridding himself of the silver does not lift the load that is soffocating him… he begins to know shame, regret, true desolation… Judas never experiences true Faith but he begins to understand who Jesus truly is… his path becomes clear… “woe to the one who betrays Him, it would be better for that man not to have been born…”

It is my understanding that God’s Mercy does not require full knowledge of His Omnipotence; Judas undestood that he could not undo his betrayal of Jesus… but he knew very little more… death could very well have been his only out as his mind raced for a way to repay Jesus for his treason: a life for a life…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

God had revealed himself to Judas in the fullest way possible. If a person rejects God after knowing Him, what more can God do? Had Judas committed eternal sin? The Resurrection, could have that turned Judas around? Did Judas hang himself before the Resurrection?

…but even after the Resurrection the Eleven did not fully understand or believed!

St. John reveals that it was after he and St. Peter entered the tumb that he believed!.. Thomas refused to believe till he himself saw Jesus and investigated Jesus physically… the rest of the Believers did not fare any better as attested by the two on the road to Emmaus… but you expect a non-Believer to somehow see into the mind of God?

Read St. John 14, 15, and 16–those that are not part of Jesus (Believers) will walk about in darkness even though it may be the middle of the day!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Dear Angel,

They were blaming the woman. They were in cahoots with Judas. His selfish concern for the community finances at some point became theirs. Money was a hot topic for some if not all of them and I think it possible Judas, as the treasurer, was behind it. Maybe Judas was attempting a power struggle even. Money was his tool. Maybe this is why so many of them weren’t confident eneogh to say " I know it’s not me" when Jesus told them the betrayer was among them.

…all I can tell you is that I do not read such thing in Scriptures; but you are free to interpret as you wish.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Benadam]

That was insightfull.

That brought to mind a passage

[3] Then Judas, who betrayed him, seeing that he was condemned, repenting himself, brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and ancients, [4] Saying: I have sinned in betraying innocent blood. But they said: What is that to us? look thou to it. [5] And casting down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed: and went and hanged himself with an halter.

 

[GraceSofia]

God had revealed himself to Judas in the fullest way possible. If a person rejects God after knowing Him, what more can God do? Had Judas committed eternal sin? The Resurrection, could have that turned Judas around? Did Judas hang himself before the Resurrection?

Judas committed suicide on Friday, before the Resurrection, and before the Crucifixion.

1 And when morning was come, all the chief priests and ancients of the people took counsel against Jesus, that they might put him to death. 2 And they brought him bound and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor. 3 Then Judas, who betrayed him, seeing that he was condemned, repenting himself, brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and ancients… (Matthew 27)

 

[GraceSofia]

…we know that Judas is a non-Believer… his seeming ideal of a Messiah is one that would carry out temporal warfare against the Roman Empire

I’ve tended towards this interepretation, that Judas, like probably all Jews, was awaiting a Messiah who would free the Jews from the Roman occupiers and restore them. It must have frustrated him very much to see Jesus walking around doing miracles right, left, and center, but totally uninterested in grabbing earthly power and reigning as a king over the Jews.

The silver that could provide him with some hours of pleasure (wine, drugs, females, food…)

Or finance the revolution.

It is my understanding that God’s Mercy does not require full knowledge of His Omnipotence; Judas undestood that he could not undo his betrayal of Jesus… but he knew very little more… death could very well have been his only out as his mind raced for a way to repay Jesus for his treason: a life for a life…

Interesting. Thanks for explaining. I suppose it is possible. No way for us to know really.

 

[jcrichton]

That was insightfull.

That brought to mind a passage

[3] Then Judas, who betrayed him, seeing that he was condemned, repenting himself, brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and ancients, [4] Saying: I have sinned in betraying innocent blood. But they said: What is that to us? look thou to it. [5] And casting down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed: and went and hanged himself with an halter.

…yeah, that passage is my main source–we fail God so many times (over and over and over); but only each one of us knows the depth of his/her failure… still, Believers do have Jesus to fall back on… but those who do not Believe or even arrogantly deny the existence of God–these poor souls must go it alone… I see Judas at the threshhold of Faith… but he is immersed in the corporal world and is unabled to recognize God’s Mercy in Jesus’ Crucifixion… he exacts the only transaction his mind can consider… the fact that he did not indulge himself with the ill-gotten money suggests to me that there was true repentance, one that the Holy Spirit would validate!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I’ve tended towards this interepretation, that Judas, like probably all Jews, was awaiting a Messiah who would free the Jews from the Roman occupiers and restore them. It must have frustrated him very much to see Jesus walking around doing miracles right, left, and center, but totally uninterested in grabbing earthly power and reigning as a king over the Jews.

Or finance the revolution.

Interesting. Thanks for explaining. I suppose it is possible. No way for us to know really.

…and all that talk about “love your enemy;” and Jesus’ miracles involving non-Jews… and talk about the Kingdom of God embracing all of mankind–no more special “people of God” for Israel…

…you are correct… ultimately it is Yahweh God who determines who is Saved (“not all who call Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven…”); still, I rather take into account all pertinent data rather than jump to a conclusion that might be wrong (ie: Saul’s perceived fall from a “horse”–so he couldn’t be walking (which was the most common mode of transportation back then)?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[karebear92]

No. I am saying, why did Jesus did not intercede before His betrayal? …just as He did for Cephas, when Satan asked for liberties to attack the twelve, Judas could have used a mega dose of Divine intervention; yet, I insist, it had to be done–Judas had to be the betrayer since one of the Twelve had to fulfill Scriptures… Jesus’ intervension would derail the Salvific Plan.

…you provided support to my argument: Judas did not believe–how can we expect a non-Believer to seek Jesus or to understand anything that He Taught?

In contrast, there’s Cephas/Kephas–of all the Disciples and followers he could have been the most devoted to Jesus (in spite of John’s acclamation of being the one that the Lord loved most) since we find Peter always at the ready to follow and jump when the Master speaks or appears–he’s so cookoo for Christ that in spite of the many that were seeking to apprehend Jesus, St. Peter goes into action and attacks one of the temple servants…

Judas’ tell?.. a thief, a liar, an opportunist…

…and while St. Peter did not commit suicide, we can hardly compare his denial of Jesus to Judas’ betrayal; the first, in fear of his life denounces knowing Jesus (a terrible terrible acclamation) while the latter knowingly places Jesus in the hands of those seeking to murder Him… there’s no comparison!

Further, a Believer can always count on God’s Mercy, once he/she is convicted by the Holy Spirit; in contrast, a non-Believer has no awareness of the Holy Spirit and can never seek forgiveness and God’s Mercy.

…in regards to Judas’ Salvation, it is not man’s abilities that Saves him but God’s Mercy and Grace–Jesus spoke of many things one example of God’s Mercy is hidden in His waring to those who would reject the 72/12 when He sent them out into the various towns… Jesus states that for those who would reject them (the disciples) they would receive less mercy than Soddom and Ghomorrah (not sure of the spelling) at Judgment Day–God’s Mercy is beyond our abilities to comprehend.

Maran atha!

Angel

Sorry, I understand what you are saying now. I think we agree for the most part, but we explain it a little bit differently. You definitely added to my argument! Thanks!