How could Mary be sinless when she herself proclaims God as her Saviour in Scripture?

[Rolla]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

 

[1ke]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour.

This is not a good understanding of salvation and Christ’s role in it.

Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

Sigh. Such a minimalistic and out of context view of Scripture is so disheartening.

 

[guanophore]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

“All” in scripture does not always mean “all”. In context, Paul is showing that both Jews and Gentiles are under original sin, and Jews don’t get a special pass just because they are “of the circumcision”. Jews are also saved by grace, through faith, just like the Gentiles.

How can one be blameless and righteous before God, if they are sinful?

Luke 1:5-6
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

[LOCO]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

Hello Rolla and welcome to CAF

Mary is sinless by the ‘Grace of God’ a gift given to her from God

Jesus on the other hand is sinless by ‘nature’

As the first Christian Mary already knew when she said ‘yes’ who her son was going to be.

“Mary’s sinlessness was not due to any inherent perfection she had apart from God; her very sinlessness was purely a gift from God her Savior (cf. Luke 1:46-48). As a human being who descended from our first parents, Mary was due to inherit original sin. Had God done nothing at the point of conception, she would have inherited it. Because she was to be God’s own Mother and was to have a share in setting right the damage done to the human race by Adam and Eve, God used the graces Christ would win for humanity on the cross and saved her from all stain of sin from the moment of her conception. Her sinlessness does not diminish God’s saving power; if anything, his work to preserve Mary’s soul free from any and all sin demonstrates the limitlessness of his saving power.”
MICHELE ARNOLD CAA

 

[valentino]

Mary was born free of OS sin by an act of God.She was saved by Jesus for trusting in Him and never committing actual sin.All humans are saved by Jesus’s sacrifice of which Mary was one.Mary was saved by God before She was conceived.It was miraculous which no one else was such favored.

 

[runningdude]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

Her Son did save her; He is God and applied future His sacrifice on the cross to save His mother from all sin since the moment of her conception.

 

[Insight]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

Mary may not have been aware that She was sinless, it may have been considered pride for Her to think so. Be advised that the following is from a Pro-Medjugorje website which is currently under investigation from the Vatican, but it gives the best explanation I’ve seen:

"Some non-Catholics may also have difficultly understanding the Co-Redemptive process, considering Mary to be only some kind of a birthing vessel, even capable of possessing the same sins and sinful desires as any other woman.

The Ark of the Covenant was so Holy, that God gave specific instructions as to how It must be built. Every single detail; from the wood that must be used, to what metals to incorporate, how to carry It, how to hold It, what was to be placed in It, etc. God even warned; if It starts to tip or fall don’t touch It. We all know what happened when the Ark was being carried by the Israelites on an ox-cart and began to tilt, an Israelite put his hand on It to stabilize It, and God instantaneously struck him dead. God warned not to touch It, and He immediately defended His Vessel with severe capital punishment. God doesn’t give these exacting instructions in the Old Testament only once, but He gives them twice. The Ark possessed such incredible power, that armies who carried It before them, won their victories. When King David recovered the Ark he danced every seven steps proclaiming his joy at getting the Ark Back. He was even chastised by his wife who said he was making a fool out of himself. He told her that she didn’t understand the significance. We got the Ark back! He knew there was power there!

And if there was so much power with the Ark because It contained objects that were touched by the very Finger of God (the Jewish Decalogue known as the Ten Commandments, on two tablets that God inscribed with His Finger), how much more power is there in the Container that enclosed the actual Divine Holy Finger of God? And not just the Finger, but the Hand of God, and not just the Hand, but the entire Body of God? And how much more Holy of a Vessel would be required to carry all that Divinity? And how much more exacting and perfect construction would be required to build such a Faultless Holy Vessel? And that is what Mary is, God’s most Perfect Ark, the bearer of Himself."

DefendingMedjugorje.com/Pages/Antagonist.htm

God Bless

 

[LOCO]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

Hello again Rolla,

This youtube video is a very simple and beautiful explanation of the role of Mary and how it corresponds to Sacred Scripture. Please have a look, it only takes 11minutes.

youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

 

[105lynne]

Mary may not have been aware that She was sinless, it may have been considered pride for Her to think so. Be advised that the following is from a Pro-Medjugorje website which is currently under investigation from the Vatican, but it gives the best explanation I’ve seen:

"Some non-Catholics may also have difficultly understanding the Co-Redemptive process, considering Mary to be only some kind of a birthing vessel, even capable of possessing the same sins and sinful desires as any other woman.

The Ark of the Covenant was so Holy, that God gave specific instructions as to how It must be built. Every single detail; from the wood that must be used, to what metals to incorporate, how to carry It, how to hold It, what was to be placed in It, etc. God even warned; if It starts to tip or fall don’t touch It. We all know what happened when the Ark was being carried by the Israelites on an ox-cart and began to tilt, an Israelite put his hand on It to stabilize It, and God instantaneously struck him dead. God warned not to touch It, and He immediately defended His Vessel with severe capital punishment. God doesn’t give these exacting instructions in the Old Testament only once, but He gives them twice. The Ark possessed such incredible power, that armies who carried It before them, won their victories. When King David recovered the Ark he danced every seven steps proclaiming his joy at getting the Ark Back. He was even chastised by his wife who said he was making a fool out of himself. He told her that she didn’t understand the significance. We got the Ark back! He knew there was power there!

And if there was so much power with the Ark because It contained objects that were touched by the very Finger of God (the Jewish Decalogue known as the Ten Commandments, on two tablets that God inscribed with His Finger), how much more power is there in the Container that enclosed the actual Divine Holy Finger of God? And not just the Finger, but the Hand of God, and not just the Hand, but the entire Body of God? And how much more Holy of a Vessel would be required to carry all that Divinity? And how much more exacting and perfect construction would be required to build such a Faultless Holy Vessel? And that is what Mary is, God’s most Perfect Ark, the bearer of Himself."

DefendingMedjugorje.com/Pages/Antagonist.htm

God Bless

Awesome explanation!

 

[ESMDHokie77]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

Everyone needs The Savior.

All doesn’t mean all, . I love when our separated brethren bring up this verse.

catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

But what about Romans 3:23, “all have sinned”? Have all people committed actual sins? Consider a child below the age of reason. By definition he can’t sin, since sinning requires the ability to reason and the ability to intend to sin. This is indicated by Paul later in the letter to the Romans when he speaks of the time when Jacob and Esau were unborn babies as a time when they “had done nothing either good or bad” (Rom. 9:11).

 

[followingtheway]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

Well, let’s say a man walks toward a large hole and falls in it and Jesus pulls him out of it. Therefore, Jesus is his Savior.

But then again, let’s say Mary walks towards a large hole but Jesus stops her before she falls into it. Jesus would still be her Savior too.

Now imagine the hole is sin. That answers your question.

God bless,

David

 

[TimothyH]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

If you look at Romans 10:3, Paul says “As it is written.” His statement that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God is a paraphrase of some of the Psalms, especially Psalm 14.

And If you look at Pslam 14, you can see that “not one does what is right, not even one.” (verse 3) yet “God is with the company of the just” (verse 5). So there are sinners, all of whom have sinned, and then there is the company of the just. Paul could not possibly have been speaking about every human being. Guanaphore is absolutely correct. “All” does not mean every human being. It is a contrast between the Gentiles and the Jews.

We have to read the Bible as a whole book, not just a collection of independent verses in order to understand it properly.

-Tim-

 

[TheMc]

Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

I have to say: Scripture indeed says “all have fallen short of the glory of God.” While there are other valid interpretations, the first thing that came into my mind was: Even if she never sinned, Mary is still nowhere near as glorious as God. No catholic in their right mind would put Mary equal to God.
Just my :twocents:

 

[cradlecatholic5]

I just don’t understand the “hang-up” people have w/ our Blessed Mother.

I’m so grateful that my Nanny passed her deep devotion of Mary to my Mom and she passed it along to me and I passed it along to my children and now my grandson.

I know when he refers to her as “Blessed Mommy” she smiles.

 

[guanophore]

I have to say: Scripture indeed says “all have fallen short of the glory of God.” While there are other valid interpretations, the first thing that came into my mind was: Even if she never sinned, Mary is still nowhere near as glorious as God. No catholic in their right mind would put Mary equal to God.
Just my :twocents:

This is true, but it was not because of sin. Adam and Eve were also created without sin, and they are still but creatures. We bear the very stamp of HIs nature but we are not divine by nature.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

Mary is the mother of Jesus. She bears this son in her womb.
Jesus is God, and God can do anything.
If Jesus is as loving as he is in the bible, I see no reason to bristle about his ability to make an exception for a woman who made a very large exception to risk a stoning death as she did.
I believe Jesus can make a call like that. His mother was protected from harm by St. Joseph and God right from the start. Jesus just loved his mother, and he has the ability to make sure his mother is right where he wants her to be.

Where does a loving Jesus want his mother to be?

 

[valentino]

I have to say: Scripture indeed says “all have fallen short of the glory of God.” While there are other valid interpretations, the first thing that came into my mind was: Even if she never sinned, Mary is still nowhere near as glorious as God. No catholic in their right mind would put Mary equal to God.
Just my :twocents:

You’re so right.But Mary is so much closer to God(Jesus)than we are.

 

[Cavaradossi]

Mary says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour”. If she was truly sinless as Catholicism teaches, she wouldn’t need a Saviour. Also too Paul tells us that ALL have fallen short of the grace of God. It looks to me that (of course) Scripture is consistent on this.

You misunderstand what it means for God to be our “savior”. One cannot be sinless without the Grace of God. God will ultimately be our savior from the condition of being fallen as He was Mary’s savior and even the savior of Christ’s human nature (let us not forget that Christ was fully human; if we deny the full humanity of Christ, then the incarnation is meaningless, as Christ could not have been the second Adam).

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Cavaradossi,

You misunderstand what it means for God to be our “savior”. One cannot be sinless without the Grace of God. God will ultimately be our savior from the condition of being fallen as He was Mary’s savior and even the savior of Christ’s human nature (let us not forget that Christ was fully human; if we deny the full humanity of Christ, then the incarnation is meaningless, as Christ could not have been the second Adam).

The highlighted portion above sounds strangely Nestorian to my ears. Granted, I am a miaphysite, not a diophysite. How can God be the savior of Christ’s human nature if Christ was Himself God?

Apart from that, you have given the best explanation here. “One cannot be sinless without the Grace of God.”

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[LSK]

There is a Franciscan theologian who came up with the answer on this one (or at least an attempt to understand this mystery).

Basically, we must remember that God is not bound by time and space: we are, but God is not.

Therefore, God saved His mother at the moment of her conception so that she would be conceived without Original Sin and be a suitable Ark of the New Covenant.

Thus, Mary was saved by her Son’s sacrifice on the cross as a result of His ability to act outside of time and space.