How could Noahs family be the only survivors?

[truetofaith]

The idea of building a wooden ark the size of a modern oil tanker without any steel to reinforce the hull is where it breaks down for me. There is no way that something so large could be built by a man and his three sons without some type of metal to be able to hold and secure pieces of wood together. Add to that that the wood would not have been seasoned and that thing would have come apart like a box of rubber bands as soon as it started to get wet! Finally, the enormous weight of such an object would not even be able to float without it all collapsing upon itself because of the weakness of a wooden hull.

It is a nice story, though.

You should have written the Bible…since you know more about ship building than Noah with a little help from God.

 

[mikekle]

The idea of building a wooden ark the size of a modern oil tanker without any steel to reinforce the hull is where it breaks down for me. There is no way that something so large could be built by a man and his three sons without some type of metal to be able to hold and secure pieces of wood together. Add to that that the wood would not have been seasoned and that thing would have come apart like a box of rubber bands as soon as it started to get wet! Finally, the enormous weight of such an object would not even be able to float without it all collapsing upon itself because of the weakness of a wooden hull.

It is a nice story, though.

This post and some others are forgetting that God can do ANYTHING, he is not bound by the same natural laws we are, if he wanted a huge ark to float with that much weight and without steel, it would not be a problem for God, if God wanted all the animals to survive the trip, Im sure he could do this, trying to figure out how Noahs family dealt with the food for all these animals, hay, excrement, etc is pointless, we cannot understand how God does these things.

Trying to debunk things like this lead down a dangerous road imo. Whenever I read bible stories and it sounds incredible or too hard to believe, I keep in mind, it is GOD acting, he does not have to consider the laws of nature.

If he could make the sun dance around the sky at Fatima, yet have no negative effects on the earth, I dont think he would have a problem ensuring a big overloaded boat stays afloat and all the occupants are kept safe.

Something tells me ( and Im not being rude to anyone, just saying), that if some people were around to witness the time Jesus fed the 5000 with just a few fish and loaves of bread, people would be anxiously trying to figure out how he did this, how could it be possible, must have been a hoax, as it defies the laws of nature, therefore the truth must be something else, see what Im saying?

 

[truetofaith]

This post and some others are forgetting that God can do ANYTHING, he is not bound by the same natural laws we are, if he wanted a huge ark to float with that much weight and without steel, it would not be a problem for God, if God wanted all the animals to survive the trip, Im sure he could do this, trying to figure out how Noahs family dealt with the food for all these animals, hay, excrement, etc is pointless, we cannot understand how God does these things.

Trying to debunk things like this lead down a dangerous road imo. Whenever I read bible stories and it sounds incredible or too hard to believe, I keep in mind, it is GOD acting, he does not have to consider the laws of nature.

If he could make the sun dance around the sky at Fatima, yet have no negative effects on the earth, I dont think he would have a problem ensuring a big overloaded boat stays afloat and all the occupants are kept safe.

Something tells me ( and Im not being rude to anyone, just saying), that if some people were around to witness the time Jesus fed the 5000 with just a few fish and loaves of bread, people would be anxiously trying to figure out how he did this, how could it be possible, must have been a hoax, as it defies the laws of nature, therefore the truth must be something else, see what Im saying?

In a thread, a few months ago, I posted how our pastor said Jesus passed out what the boy gave Him & the people added what little they had to share with the 5ooo.

He tried to explain away the Miracle…and I walked out on his talk and told him why after Mass.

 

[Tim_D]

You should have written the Bible…since you know more about ship building than Noah with a little help from God.

And you should get a good bible commentary…since you know very little about the origins of the story of Noah and the ark (hint; research the ancient Mesopotamian story The Epic of Gilgamesh) and, apparently, what the Church does and does not teach about the early chapters of Genesis.

If you want to be a bible fundamentalist, then that’s up to you but don’t criticize others when we uphold a perspective that is perfectly in line with the authority of the Church, the doctors of the Church and ancient Tradition.

 

[Tim_D]

This post and some others are forgetting that God can do ANYTHING, he is not bound by the same natural laws we are, if he wanted a huge ark to float with that much weight and without steel, it would not be a problem for God, if God wanted all the animals to survive the trip, Im sure he could do this, trying to figure out how Noahs family dealt with the food for all these animals, hay, excrement, etc is pointless, we cannot understand how God does these things.

When and where does the Church teach a literal and “fundamentalist” view of Genesis? If we are going to take such a childish attitude of “if God wanted to, he could have etc.,” then we might as well pretend that God is an old man up in the sky with a great, long white beard and that the angels are the heads of little babies playing harps and violins while carousing on a cloud.

It is amazing to me how Catholics, with our history, Tradition, Church, sacraments and a mountain of theology and philosophy from over 2,000 years can still have such an immature idea of what it is all about.

 

[ericc]

I was reading the thread on Gods promise to Noah and it got me thinking about how the bible says Noah and his family were the ONLY people to survive, but in another verse, regarding the Nephilim, it says they were on the earth before AND AFTER the flood, so, which is it?

The Nephilim was mentioned in 2 verses, Gen 6:4(before Flood) and Numbers 13:33(after Flood). There is nothing to to link the Nephilim of Numbers to the Nephilim of Genesis. If you are alluding that the Nephilim of Numbers is the same as that of Genesis, then you need to provide the evidence to support it.

Gen 9:18-19 says plainly that after the Flood, the sons of Noah peopled the earth. Either this is true or it is not. Then which verse from the whole Bible would you choose to believe is true and which is not? On what basis?

 

[ericc]

I think it does. The question isn’t simply: How long can meat be preserved? The question is: How long can carnivores survive on a diet exclusively comprised of salted (and desiccated) meat? Forty days may not be a problem, but 370 days might be.

I would have gone FISHING! You have to think outside the Ark(box). Fresh meat everyday is possible. Tuna, salmon, whale meat, octopus, sashimi everyday. And healthy too.

If God can provide Moses and thousands of his people with manna from heaven and bird meat for years, feeding Noah and his small family and animals on board is simply a trivial issue. Probably just too trivial to mention it in his journals.

 

[Tim_D]

Probably just too trivial to mention it in his journals.

Are you seriously suggesting that Noah kept a journal of his experience?

 

[ericc]

The idea of building a wooden ark the size of a modern oil tanker without any steel to reinforce the hull is where it breaks down for me. There is no way that something so large could be built by a man and his three sons without some type of metal to be able to hold and secure pieces of wood together. Add to that that the wood would not have been seasoned and that thing would have come apart like a box of rubber bands as soon as it started to get wet! Finally, the enormous weight of such an object would not even be able to float without it all collapsing upon itself because of the weakness of a wooden hull.

It is a nice story, though.

Chinese history says that Admiral Zheng He’s Treasure ship in the Ming dynasty15th century was reported to be 450 ft long and 180 ft wide. It is made of wood obviously and reputed to carry 9 masts with 4 decks carrying 500 - 1000 passengers on his numerous voyages.

Are you a wood ship building expert? Because you are claiming a number of impossibilities.

Wikipedia has a list of claimed sizable wooden ships but poorly documented due to antiquity. See the bottom portion of the page.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_wooden_ships

When some one claim to build something, it doesn’t mean every single inch of the construction has to be made personally by the named person. It includes hiring staff, outsourcing. Noah would need resources to afford one. He is reputed to be a tiller of the soil and not as a ship builder. Btw, Noah was 500 years when he became a dad to Shem, Ham and Japheth. The Flood came when he was 600 years old. I guess he has enough time to commission the building of a boat.

 

[ericc]

Are you seriously suggesting that Noah kept a journal of his experience?

That would be Moses writing down these stuff as revealed to him. That would be trivial based upon his experiences feeding a tribe of unruly people.

 

[Tim_D]

When some one claim to build something, it doesn’t mean every single inch of the construction has to be made personally by the named person. It includes hiring staff, outsourcing. Noah would need resources to afford one. He is reputed to be a tiller of the soil and not as a ship builder. Btw, Noah was 500 years when he became a dad to Shem, Ham and Japheth. The Flood came when he was 600 years old. I guess he has enough time to commission the building of a boat.

Oh, I see. So Noah was the Donald Trump of his day, then?

 

[Tim_D]

That would be Moses writing down these stuff as revealed to him. That would be trivial based upon his experiences feeding a tribe of unruly people.

Uh, huh.

So I guess the fact that critical analysis of the first five books of the Bible showing that there were many hands involved in the writing, collating and editing of the texts is just one of those things that was put there to test us or is it your opinion that Moses himself took pen in hand and authored the Torah while the voices dictated in his head?

 

[ericc]

Uh, huh.

So I guess the fact that critical analysis of the first five books of the Bible showing that there were many hands involved in the writing, collating and editing of the texts is just one of those things that was put there to test us or is it your opinion that Moses himself took pen in hand and authored the Torah while the voices dictated in his head?

Whether Moses personally wrote those books or his aides, is not of crucial importance. In ancient times, as long as it is approved by the author, it takes on his authority. I have not researched into how biblical writers put the words of God into writing. However for Moses, I doubt he need to hear voices in his head. In Leviticus 1:1, we see that God dwell with them in the tent of meeting. God frequently communicated with Moses or Moses/Aaron and Moses did seek advice frequently. Decades in the desert. With God living in your midst, I doubt Moses need to hear voices in his head. Nevertheless, God can communicate through various means, vision, dreams, voices, messengers, angels etc. Personally I feel the means of communication is of lesser importance than the message itself. What God is trying to tell us. Even the choice of messenger may not be ideal and Moses admit he is not that eloquent.

 

[truetofaith]

When and where does the Church teach a literal and “fundamentalist” view of Genesis? If we are going to take such a childish attitude of “if God wanted to, he could have etc.,” then we might as well pretend that God is an old man up in the sky with a great, long white beard and that the angels are the heads of little babies playing harps and violins while carousing on a cloud.

It is amazing to me how Catholics, with our history, Tradition, Church, sacraments and a mountain of theology and philosophy from over 2,000 years can still have such an immature idea of what it is all about.

So Tim, I guess Mikekle & I take a “childish attitude” because we believe God is Omnipotent and can do miraculous things?

If I didn’t believe this, I would join the atheistic scientists who only believe what they can test & measure. Doubting Thomas was in that category until he encountered the risen Jesus!

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I would have gone FISHING! You have to think outside the Ark(box). Fresh meat everyday is possible. Tuna, salmon, whale meat, octopus, sashimi everyday. And healthy too.

If God can provide Moses and thousands of his people with manna from heaven and bird meat for years, feeding Noah and his small family and animals on board is simply a trivial issue. Probably just too trivial to mention it in his journals.

I hadn’t even thought of this… fishing…

I feel kind of dumb now to be honest…

 

[Darryl_Revok]

I hadn’t even thought of this… fishing…

I feel kind of dumb now to be honest…

Probably because a massive flood of that size would kill off the freshwater fish, while other factors–acidization, pressure, etc–would finish off the rest.

 

[Tim_D]

So Tim, I guess Mikekle & I take a “childish attitude” because we believe God is Omnipotent and can do miraculous things?

No, I think yours can be a “childish attitude” when you adhere to a strict literal interpretation that even the Church does not teach for fear that if one domino falls, then the rest inevitably will, too.

If I didn’t believe this, I would join the atheistic scientists who only believe what they can test & measure. Doubting Thomas was in that category until he encountered the risen Jesus!

There are/were many great Catholic minds, St. Augustine being one of them, who did not/do not hold to a literal interpretation of the early chapters of Genesis. Are you suggesting that either A) your faith is greater or more informed than theirs or B) that St. Augustine and other non-literal doctors should join in with atheistic groups due to your measure of their faith?

 

[Tim_D]

Whether Moses personally wrote those books or his aides, is not of crucial importance.

And as others have said, echoing what the Church teaches, the literal/historical accuracy of the early chapters of Genesis are not of crucial importance; it is the message that these stories convey that are of significance.

 

[TheLamb]

The idea of building a wooden ark the size of a modern oil tanker without any steel to reinforce the hull is where it breaks down for me. There is no way that something so large could be built by a man and his three sons without some type of metal to be able to hold and secure pieces of wood together. Add to that that the wood would not have been seasoned and that thing would have come apart like a box of rubber bands as soon as it started to get wet! Finally, the enormous weight of such an object would not even be able to float without it all collapsing upon itself because of the weakness of a wooden hull.

It is a nice story, though.

If I might help? Here is what the ark looked like.
The Ark

The passage, while allegoric, has a purpose for God’s chosen. The message is still important for the uninitiated: Don’t ignore Noah if he returns. But for the chosen the challenge of designing an ark that meets the requirements brings them closer to God like a student to a teacher. The challenges aren’t easy and often you have to go away and do some research, like the meaning of gopherwood for which you need a little Hebrew. God loves His tests as they demonstrate improvement in His creation reflecting favourably on Him.

To the original question, yes there were ‘others’ on the ark. The passage refers to them as ‘them’. ‘Them’ is used pejoratively by the author . “He’s one of them”. The animals are to ‘keep them alive’ The animals aren’t being saved. God can make animals anytime. He can’t make ‘them’ again. They are the Sons of God and are male and female. Noah and his family as descendants of Adam are only allowed to eat from the land and bread.

The covenant is made with them, not Noah. It’s a repeat of the original instruction God gave earlier in Genesis 1 before Adam and Eve were created in Genesis 2. Noah and his family still bear the sin of their ancestors.

Of course this comes across as an alien interpretation but it is wholly accurate. It’s not what we’re taught. And therein lies the problem. The ‘rules’ restrict creativity which is a gift from God. Without creativity we can’t improve. The Bible highlights the outstanding individual like Noah all the time. They are always being tested. The masses and the rule makers are penalised. That’s why God keeps changing the rules. It’s to void those he doesn’t approve of that are restricting His creation’s improvement.

Yes, Noah is a good tale to mention. Thanks for posting.

 

[ericc]

Probably because a massive flood of that size would kill off the freshwater fish, while other factors–acidization, pressure, etc–would finish off the rest.

And why do you think they are floating on freshwater and not salty sea water?