How could the universe and life come into existence without God? How could life evolve without God?

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rossum said:
No we did not measure it. We never measured the muon, we only measured the decay products, which are not muons.

If is like measuring a footprint. We can observe the footprint, but we never observed the person who made the footprint.

The muon was never observed, only its ‘footprints’.

How did the muon know when to decay before it was observed?
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That’s what i’m talking about, you measured it when you measured its effects.
The muon doesn’t know when to decay, you know it decayed by measuring its decay.

And time is in your mind; what’s in your mind controls existence.
The past and the future do not exist, only the present does because you experience it. The past and future are only reference to the present.

Q. If consciousness doesn’t exist, will the past, present and future exist?
 
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jan10000 said:
That’s why your approach is flawed. You should have just asked “How did the universe come into existence?”.
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Ok, lets go with your approach.
jan10000 said:
This is all speculative since science as of yet cannot perceive what happened at approximately 10e-36 seconds after the so-called “Big Bang”.
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660 posts, and a number of us agree that there is no science to show how the universe came into existence.
 
rossum said:
No. Time is one of the four dimensions of the space-time manifold that provides the framework for energy and matter to interact.
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That is what was thought by those who thought it was and many who think it is.
rossum said:
Q. If consciousness doesn’t exist, will the past, present and future exist?
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Yes.
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Present is an experience by consciousness and in the absence of this experience (present), there can never be past or future because they are only references to the present. i.e, the present moves into the future and the present moves away from the past so only the present is real, it creates the past and future.
 
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Noose001 said:
Present is an experience by consciousness and in the absence of this experience (present), there can never be past or future because they are only references to the present. i.e, the present moves into the future and the present moves away from the past so only the present is real, it creates the past and future.
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I’m saving that. Solid gold.
 
Noose001 said:
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lelinator:
Why a collective consciousness? Why not just one?
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Because reality is one yet we are many.
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How do you know that “we are many”? Perhaps there’s only me.

Why do you assume the existence of the many?
 
lelinator said:
How do you know that “ we are many ”? Perhaps there’s only me.

Why do you assume the existence of the many?
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I know for sure that there’s two self (you and i) engaged in an argument right now, so we must be many.
 
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Noose001 said:
So i’m i, that means we are one.
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Again, in some sense…yes. But there’s no reason to assume that while “we” may form a collective whole, there’s no reason why that collective whole must manifest itself in more than one singular consciousness.

There’s no reason that I can think of that necessitates your being conscious, and not simply an attribute of my consciousness, just like everything else.

As a metaphysicist might point out, as far as my existence goes, your conscious existence isn’t necessary to my conscious existence. It’s just the appearance of your conscious existence that’s necessary. But that may be nothing more than an illusion.

And with that I have to go for a while.
 
lelinator said:
Again, in some sense…yes. But there’s no reason to assume that while “ we ” may form a collective whole, there’s no reason why that collective whole must manifest itself in more than one singular consciousness.

There’s no reason that I can think of that necessitates your being conscious, and not simply an attribute of my consciousness, just like everything else.

As a metaphysicist might point out, as far as my existence goes, your conscious existence isn’t necessary to my conscious existence. It’s just the appearance of your conscious existence that’s necessary. But that may be nothing more than an illusion.

And with that I have to go for a while.
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Biblically, there’s a reason; so that goodness may have preeminence over evil and the light might shine brighter even as darkness gets darker spiritually speaking.

Your conscious existence is of importance to mine, hence the command to love one another and that is all that matters.
 
jan10000 said:
That’s Theology. It can’t be proven, and experiment has shown that such a universal observer is not required.
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So how did the universe happen by natural causes? Where is the science?

The honest answer so far seems to be; we don’t know. Do you have anything to add?
 
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