How did Islam get so popular?

Status
Not open for further replies.
What niceatheist said is true. The Arian churches did have more in common with Islam than with Chalcedonian Christianity.
 
Aquinas11 said:
40.png
niceatheist:
The theory goes that many people in the Syriac churches found more theological affinity with the Muslim invaders
Click to expand...
Its easy to find “theological affinity” with people threatening to behead you by force.
Click to expand...
As I and others have noted above, that’s not how the Islamic invasions often worked. In brief, Constantinople had treated Miaphysites like the Syriacs horribly. Save for brief periods of tolerance, the Byzantine Empire persecuted Syriac and other Miaphysite churches (and even groups like the Copts, who probably weren’t Miaphysite at all), so that when the Muslim invaders came along, they seemed like less an an enemy than the Emperors in Constantinople. The Muslim invaders were also tolerant of Christians and general (and probably didn’t care whether a Christian was Monophysite or Miaphysite). So long as the Jizya was paid, various Christian Churches were largely tolerated. So let’s put it bluntly, for those Eastern Churches like the Syriac Church, treatment was better under the Muslim invaders than it had been under the Byzantine Emperors.
 
Last edited:
Two things:
  1. Copts are Miaphysite.
  2. Maronites are non-Miaphysite Syriacs, but were subjected to Byzantine persecution anyways since we’re Catholic.
 
Thanks. I know the Copts were a peculiar group within the non-Chalcedon community. I think there has been growing affinity in the last century. It’s also useful to remember the Copts are descendants of one of the oldest Christian communities outside Roman Palestine. Their suffering right now, and the unwillingness of Western governments to hold Egypt to account for continued attacks on them as a grave injustice.
 
I know Islam is gaining a foothold in the prison system.
You only have to pray a simple prayer to convert.
In many cultures and countries your life would be in danger if you left.
Islam very well might overtake Christianity as the world’s largest
religion.
Look how divided Christianity is with so many denominations and churches. Who holds the truth in
Christianity?
I moved away from my large community for 10 years. At that time there were few Muslims. Now there are many.
If the Christian churches continue to splinter it will not be a good sign for
Christianity.
 
There’s a great irony in all of what we’re talking about on this thread. The fact was that Christianity was always splintered. Acts itself in somewhat couched language demonstrates that even in the earliest days, Christianity had its factions. Of course, Paul, a man who truly never minced words, gave his own view of that controversy in Philippians 3, but the point is that Christianity was fracturing and reassembling almost from the word go. Even when Orthodoxy was established with Nicaea and Chalcedon, it was always in response to some heretical or schismatic group or theologian, and those on the fringes of the Empire and beyond, particularly in the Oriental and African churches, had significantly different Christologies.

Up until the Reformation, the Latin Church by and large was spared the internecine battles that occurred in North Africa, East Africa, the Eastern Mediterranean and beyond, but the fact was there probably wasn’t a singular Christian church after the end of the 1st Century.
 
“What The West Needs to Know” is an Excellent Document everyone should watch. A few key takeaways

(1) Muhammad, the model and first follower of Islam, personally beheaded 600 jews for the crime of not helping him in battle. (Invasion of Banu Qurayza - Wikipedia). Now imagine if you learned Jesus had beheaded 600 Jews for not helping him in battle. Let that sink in. What would be the implications? Would you still be Christian? Would it not mean that beheaded non-Christians is not only permissible but required , to be a faithful follower of Christ? After all, are we not mandated to walk in the shoes of our Master?

(2) Muhammad started in Mecca where he recruited followers and went to Medina where most of his battles and conquests were conducted. Most of the “peaceful” verses in Quran are when Muhammad was in Mecca, since he was very friendly and trying to recruit soldiers. Most of the violent verses in Quran (verse of sword - “kill them wherever you find them” regarding infidels) are when Muhammad was in Medina, during his battles and conquests. But here is key point - a verse in Quran tells followers that whenever there is a conflict between two things Allah tells Muhammad, followers must go with what was told Muhammad later in time (i.e. Medina, during the conquests). Thus, the earlier/peaceful verses in Quran are canceled or nullfiled by the later/violent verses of Quran. Also, the chapter number is irrelevant, since Quran is not ordered chronologically but from longest chapter to shortest chapter, thus is not sorted by time.

(3) An Islam doctrine (taqiyya) permits dishonesty about ones beliefs while in a country when you are the minority, until you are the majority. Thus, when Islam is a minority faith in a country, this doctrine permits dishonesty regarding the actual intentions , the text , the meaning of the verses, etc etc.

So (1), (2) and (3) are definitely three primary reasons for spread of Islam. The model follower of Islam practiced beheading of nonbelievers and the text requires followers of Islam to follow in his footsteps. Then you throw in that followers of Islam are permitted to bear false witness when they are the minority until they reach majority? That is a recipe for massive spreading

 
Last edited:
Salibi said:
Albigensians
Click to expand...
And the fact that Rome’s allies could pretty much wipe groups like the Cathars off the map, whereas even the worst the Byzantines could do did not wipe out the non-Chalcedonian Christians, demonstrates that for a long period of time, Latin Christianity, though politically disunited, was theologically unified.
 
Care to discuss the number of pogroms against Jews that occurred in Christendom? If you’re going to talk about alleged and real persecutions in early Islam against Jews and Christians, then I think it’s only fair to talk about the body count in Christendom itself in the same period.
 
niceatheist said:
that’s not how the Islamic invasions often worked
Click to expand...
what’s the basis of “often” here? what percentage of time did they perform forced conversion? you’re discussing one specific case hardly proves that claim
 
Aquinas11 said:
40.png
niceatheist:
that’s not how the Islamic invasions often worked
Click to expand...
what’s the basis of “often” here? what percentage of time did they perform forced conversion? you’re discussing one specific case hardly proves that claim
Click to expand...
Well, as an example, Coptic Christians were a majority of the populace of Egypt well into the 1300s. Whereas they were the victims of some pretty nasty persecutions when they were ruled by Constantinople, and doubtless if the Byzantine Emperors had had their way, every Copt in Egypt would have sworn allegiance to the Council of Chalcedon. The fact is that the Copts were more tolerated, by a very wide margin, by their Muslim overlords than when their fellow Christians in Constantinople were running the show.

Let’s not confuse the defeat of Byzantine armies with how many Christians were treated once the Muslim rulers had cemented their position. Yes, the armies of Islam were brutal, but then again, so were the Byzantines and later the Crusaders. In fact the Crusaders were so violent and bloodthirsty that they even turned many Christians in the reconquered lands against them, to the point that when the Ottomans reasserted authority over the Crusader kingdoms in the Holy Land, there weren’t many tears among local Christians shed as all those Europeans were sent packing.
 
niceatheist said:
Thanks. I know the Copts were a peculiar group within the non-Chalcedon community. I think there has been growing affinity in the last century. It’s also useful to remember the Copts are descendants of one of the oldest Christian communities outside Roman Palestine. Their suffering right now, and the unwillingness of Western governments to hold Egypt to account for continued attacks on them as a grave injustice.
Click to expand...
They are often in my prayers, both figuratively and literally. I think Sisi is somewhat sympathetic to their plight, at least.
 
Last edited:
Aquinas11 said:
40.png
niceatheist:
Care to discuss the number of pogroms against Jews that occurred in Christendom?
Click to expand...
start a thread
Click to expand...
Why? You brought it up here. If you want to talk about the vile actions of Mohammed and the Islamic conquerors, then I think it’s fair game to talk about what Christians during that period were doing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top