How did The fall of Adam and Eve Happen?

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enoch1 said:
genesis is a myth. a snake was a god to the druids. the writers of genesis showed the snake as evil to early jews, to keep young people from following the beliefs of the religion of their captors… i don’t believe there was a fall of man.
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There are many that do not believe in the Fall. Yet, for Christians it is a belief, and important.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
389 The doctrine of original sin is, so to speak, the “reverse side” of the Good News that Jesus is the Savior of all men, that all need salvation and that salvation is offered to all through Christ. The Church, which has the mind of Christ, 263 knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.

390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man .264 Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.265

263 Cf. 1 Cor 2:16.
264 Cf. GS 13 § 1.
265 Cf. Council of Trent: DS 1513; Pius XII: DS 3897; Paul VI: AAS 58 (1966), 654.
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STT said:
I am saying any free agent can decide to do evil.
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But how can you choose to do evil if you know that it is impossible to actually do the evil? Surely if you know that it is impossible to do something you can’t choose to do it.
STT said:
No, that doesn’t mean that you are not free anymore.
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How so? If you are unable to choose to do evil, how are you free?
STT said:
hat is His image?
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It is many things - having intellect, rationality, morality, and free will.
 
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The Snake is the u·ro·bo·ros. The snake swallowing its tail. A symbol of time as cyclic. The end is swallowed up in the beginnig. Egyptians saw time as cyclic noticing a repetition of events. Moses who knew well the religious concepts of Egypt upstaged them by describing a new revelation of the uroboros. Time isn’t cyclic it’s man’s sin that causes history to repeat. So at the end of the age or the tail of the snake is a foot that will crush the head instead of being swallowed. The endless loop of repeated history is overcome because the foot is He who takes sin from the world. It’s Divine revelation given to Moses trumping the deception of the Serpent.

The measure of truth of Egyption myth was pointed at it’s true object, that is Christ
 
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Yup. God sent him to Egypt U. to prepare him to receive the Word from above. 🙂
 
I’ve sometimes considered that it wasn’t the fruit that gave Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil, but the choice whether or not to eat it. The experience of choosing is what showed them they could choose. God could have pointed at any tree in Eden and it would have been the Tree of Knowledge solely because he told them not to eat of of it.
 
I get that it’s hard to imagine an all powerful God not directly interfering with the evil people do to each other (although we were given the Ten Commandments) and I don’t have a pat answer.

But we believe that God also didn’t spare Himself from the evil men do, but incarnated and lived just like us and alongside us and was targeted unjustly and suffered at the hands of people unjustly.
 
STT said:
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No, that doesn’t mean that you are not free anymore.
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What is His image?
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Image and Likeness

A person must fashion his life to be a mirror, a true likeness of God. A human being can become by grace what God is by nature – to be fully human requires the experience of being created in the image of God.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
1700 The dignity of the human person is rooted in his creation in the image and likeness of God ( article 1 ); it is fulfilled in his vocation to divine beatitude ( article 2 ). It is essential to a human being freely to direct himself to this fulfillment ( article 3 ). By his deliberate actions ( article 4 ), the human person does, or does not, conform to the good promised by God and attested by moral conscience ( article 5 ). Human beings make their own contribution to their interior growth; they make their whole sentient and spiritual lives into means of this growth ( article 6 ). With the help of grace they grow in virtue ( article 7 ), avoid sin, and if they sin they entrust themselves as did the prodigal son1 to the mercy of our Father in heaven ( article 8 ). In this way they attain to the perfection of charity.

1702 The divine image is present in every man. It shines forth in the communion of persons, in the likeness of the unity of the divine persons among themselves (cf. chapter two ).

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26
Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27
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1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to "the slavery of sin."28
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SPBlitz said:
But how can you choose to do evil if you know that it is impossible to actually do the evil? Surely if you know that it is impossible to do something you can’t choose to do it.
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That was your example. You stabbed a guy but the stab doesn’t kill him since God intervened.
SPBlitz said:
How so? If you are unable to choose to do evil, how are you free?
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You are free to choose. You are free to act too. But no harm is made.
SPBlitz said:
It is many things - having intellect, rationality, morality, and free will.
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Are we living in a place?
 
Vico said:
Image and Likeness

A person must fashion his life to be a mirror, a true likeness of God. A human being can become by grace what God is by nature – to be fully human requires the experience of being created in the image of God.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
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I am afraid that doesn’t answer my question.
 
Exactly - you try to kill someone but you can’t - you aren’t free to do so - because God intervenes. Again, how can you choose to kill someone if you know that no matter what you do you won’t kill them? The knowledge that your desired outcome is impossible seems to me to mean that you can’t actually choose it.
 
STT said:
Are we living in a place?
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I’m not sure what you mean. Do we have intellect and rationality? Yes, we do. Do we have free will and the ability to know right from wrong? I believe we do.
 
Did you read “You are free to choose. You are free to act too. But no harm is made”?
 
I asked what is the image of God. We are living in a place, so called the universe/creation. Is that what is meant the image of God?
 
STT said:
Did you read “You are free to choose. You are free to act too. But no harm is made”?
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Yes I did. But again, how can you choose to do harm if you know that no harm will be done? Would you even bother attempting the action?

To me, part of making a choice is at least the belief that the choice - the action - is possible. If you know it is not possible then why bother choosing it? If God we’re to intervene in every instance of evil, humans would eventually figure out that they cannot ever successfully carry out an evil act - since the evil result of that action is negated.
 
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The image of God is not a place - it is the fact that we are beings with those traits - rationality, intellect, etc.
 
STT said:
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Vico:
Image and Likeness

A person must fashion his life to be a mirror, a true likeness of God. A human being can become by grace what God is by nature – to be fully human requires the experience of being created in the image of God.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
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I am afraid that doesn’t answer my question.
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I missed 1701.

Catechism
1701 "Christ, . . . in the very revelation of the mystery of the Father and of his love, makes man fully manifest to himself and brings to light his exalted vocation."2 It is in Christ, "the image of the invisible God,"3 that man has been created “in the image and likeness” of the Creator. It is in Christ, Redeemer and Savior, that the divine image, disfigured in man by the first sin, has been restored to its original beauty and ennobled by the grace of God.4
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SPBlitz said:
Yes I did. But again, how can you choose to do harm if you know that no harm will be done? Would you even bother attempting the action?
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Yes, I wouldn’t bother to try evil after a few attempts. So there will be peace everywhere.
 
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