How do catholic women or men justify their consciences with using contraception?

[HouseArrest]

I don’t believe I’ve called anybody a troll. Not sure where you got that from. I’m just saying that the Church position was explained very well on this thread. And their concern, in my humble opinion, (whatever that’s worth) has always appeared to me anyway, to be for the well being of souls and for whoever else that may stumble onto this thread, and seek the ***truth ***of the matter.

Peace, Mark

No, I know you did not. It was a few posts back. I was commenting on that, then you commented on what I commented on, and then I put the troll claim back in there, then you thought I said you called someone a troll. See?

 

[jmcrae]

To say that contraception and abortion are “okay” is to implicitly say that not everyone born on the earth is loved or willed by God - that God could mistakenly create someone whom He does not love, and that it is up to us humans to ensure that He doesn’t accidentally create someone that He doesn’t love, by using the right kind of drugs, surgery, or prophylactic device.

But if we say that God loves everyone, and that He has created every individual on purpose and for His purpose, then neither birth control nor abortion make any sense.

 

[Rence]

How do catholic women or men justify their consciences with using contraception?

It’s easy: they weigh the benefits against the risks of using contraception vs. the risk of getting pregnant, and make their decision; along with the fact that some don’t understand, while some don’t believe or even some choose not to be subject to the laws of the Church. It’s really a personal choice that people make and live with every day. Those that do know the Church doesn’t approve, believe it’s not that serious a sin.

My mom still insists that it’s a matter of conscience and between a husband and wife because that’s what a priest told her when she was young. She has been a practicing Catholic all her life and never even heard of NFP.

 

[Rence]

To say that contraception and abortion are “okay” is to implicitly say that not everyone born on the earth is loved or willed by God - that God could mistakenly create someone whom He does not love, and that it is up to us humans to ensure that He doesn’t accidentally create someone that He doesn’t love, by using the right kind of drugs, surgery, or prophylactic device.

But if we say that God loves everyone, and that He has created every individual on purpose and for His purpose, then neither birth control nor abortion make any sense.

Some people believe that God intervenes whenever petitioned, but also believe that at the same time, don’t believe God micromanages every little thing that happens on this earth.

 

[jmcrae]

Some people believe that God intervenes whenever petitioned, but also believe that at the same time, don’t believe God micromanages every little thing that happens on this earth.

Human beings are not “little things.”

Human life comes into being when God adds a unique human soul to the egg and the sperm when they come together. It is not possible for Him to do this “by accident.”

 

[KellyPalmer]

She explained that she had done NFP trying to get pregnant and her husband wanted no part of that again, nor would he tolerate abstaining, so she had to decide between her marriage, where she had three children and leaving or allowing her husband to stray I guess (whole other thread). I am sorry I did not mean to use your post to voice my opinion about others, that was wrong, I should have post two different post addressing each issue, but from what I read she did answer the question, IMO. I am also sorry for the pain you have been through, I cannot even imagine what that must be like. Again I am sorry for the confusion, no excuses.

All those things you named are just the reasons she chose contraception. But the question was not, “why do people use contraception”, the question was how do contracepting Catholics justify their conscience. All those reasons she gave still result in mortal sin so there’s no justification of conscience. The closest she came to justification was to say that she doesn’t agree with Catholicism. But, she never gives any justification for why she doesn’t agree. This stil leaves us baffled as to how she justifies her conscience.

 

[Demetra2]

You comes across as quite a bully. I cannot even believe you could read my post the way you have. If you don’t call what you say as judging and you are saying it is your duty as a Catholic, I truly feel sorry for you. You aren’t getting want, so you are get ugly, call it whatever you want. I see you have posted over 16,000 in a little over two years, which is unusual on here. You obviously have a very high opinion of yourself and what you have to say. I find nothing Christ like about you, but rather extremely cold hearted. IMO there is absolutely nothing charitable about you. Unless people think EXACTLY as you do, you attack them. I hope God finds a way to soften your heart someday, because you come across as a very ugly, unloving human being.

No more defending myself and read all the distortions. You get your way, I am done, good for you! Go lead your troops.

Hey Real Juliane,
I am so sorry that this whole bunch of nasty was hurled at you. All untrue and unjust. I think you just experienced a type of white martyrdom. I suspect we will all be subjected to this as we go forward in defending the beliefs of the Catholic Church. Fasten your seatbelts everybody “it’s going to be a bumpy ride”!

 

[Southern]

One can always judge behavior without judging the person. Wake up, and stop thinking like a politically-correct 21st-century mental slave!

Wrong. There is always the choice not to sin. This sloppy philosophical equivocation doesn’t apply to intrinsic evil.

Bottom line friend you don’t know what people are going through. I firmly believe in detesting the sin and not the sinner. I am not a slave to the 21st centry and you are correct it always is a person’s choice not to sin. But here is just 1 example to get my point across: The Lord said “Thou shalt not Kill” That means you mustn’t kill anyone correct? If you are lead to the choice to defend you or your family then would you let your family die? Which is the greater sin protecting your family and killing the one who comes to bring harm to your family or letting you and your whole family get killed? Surely I tell you as a protector of your family it is a greater sin to let your family die. Take the lesser of the 2 evils, Therefore in a split second you don’t know what you would do. Instinct would have you defend your family. God knows that. So you see in a person’s situation that you or anyone else doesn’t understand do not judge for any type of character or any sin or any person. Leave it to God to decide. Please private mail me if you have a rebudle to this and I would be happy to discuss it with you for this thread has gotten way out of hand and too judgemental.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Hey, Southern. Would it be all right if I just threw my hands up and said “nah”?

Too many false analogies etc.

It’s not worth the effort to fully respond.

 

[Southern]

Hey, Southern. Would it be all right if I just threw my hands up and said “nah”?

Too many false analogies etc.

It’s not worth the effort to fully respond.

So much the better! Less conjestion! Oh and I am still praying for you too Brother!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Hey Real Juliane,
I am so sorry that this whole bunch of nasty was hurled at you. All untrue and unjust. I think you just experienced a type of white martyrdom. I suspect we will all be subjected to this as we go forward in defending the beliefs of the Catholic Church. Fasten your seatbelts everybody “it’s going to be a bumpy ride”!

Thank you, the poster PM’d me as well, just to make 100% certain that I read her message. That could have gotten her banned, but I let it go and prayed for her instead.

I think you are right and that we may indeed be on the verge of a lot of persecution. Ready with my full armor! :knight1::knight2:

What is “white martyrdom?” Never heard the term.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Yeah, we’re prayer buds, Southern!

 

[Southern]

Yeah, we’re prayer buds, Southern!

Roger and AMEN That Bro!

 

[einna]

Thank you, the poster PM’d me as well, just to make 100% certain that I read her message. That could have gotten her banned, but I let it go and prayed for her instead.

I think you are right and that we may indeed be on the verge of a lot of persecution. Ready with my full armor! :knight1::knight2:

What is “white martyrdom?” Never heard the term.

How VERY cleaver my dear! let us see if you get your way on that. I would think if she could be banned, there is a chance you could be banned or scolded for giving that information out on the public forum; if not you should be.

To me you seem to be on a which hunt because shelby is not coming around to your way of thinking (not the church’s way) your way. You have said she hijacked the thread which she did not. You have said she is a troll and on public forum trying to recruit others to your ways. I find your ways controlling and sad.

I am not of the age where people believe it is our “duty” to judge others so readily. I am of the age we look to ourselves first as sinners and try to better our own behavior before we look at others sins. There is a grace to being able to guide and teach people on Catholic teachings, I am sorry my dear but I did see that you have that yet. You simply come across in a mean spirit out to get someone.

 

[einna]

All those things you named are just the reasons she chose contraception. But the question was not, “why do people use contraception”, the question was how do contracepting Catholics justify their conscience. All those reasons she gave still result in mortal sin so there’s no justification of conscience. The closest she came to justification was to say that she doesn’t agree with Catholicism. But, she never gives any justification for why she doesn’t agree. This stil leaves us baffled as to how she justifies her conscience.

I question was not how do people justify using contraception to KellyPalmer. I was also not how they justify it to the church. Since the OP has not responded we don’t know exactly what he was asking for; for me I read it has how do the people using contraception justify it to themselves. Of course, we can all read it the way they want; however, you are now just being difficult because she isn’t explaining it the way you want. I don’t think anything shelby said would be good enough for you.

You seem to be the one that wants to keep this up and I am hope shelby doesn’t respond to you anymore. She said she is done let it go already!

 

[Southern]

How VERY cleaver my dear! let us see if you get your way on that. I would think if she could be banned, there is a chance you could be banned or scolded for giving that information out on the public forum; if not you should be.

To me you seem to be on a which hunt because shelby is not coming around to your way of thinking (not the church’s way) your way. You have said she hijacked the thread which she did not. You have said she is a troll and on public forum trying to recruit others to your ways. I find your ways controlling and sad.

I am not of the age where people believe it is our “duty” to judge others so readily. I am of the age we look to ourselves first as sinners and try to better our own behavior before we look at others sins. There is a grace to being able to guide and teach people on Catholic teachings, I am sorry my dear but I did see that you have that yet. You simply come across in a mean spirit out to get someone.

Sigh! Please people Where is the Love? Please stop this!

 

[einna]

I’m sorry for hurting people’s feelings.

That was very kind of you to say, especially as it appeasr you have a strong devotion to the Church and do not agree with shelby, which is fine. Let us all find the gift to respond with grace even when we do not agree. We all need to pray for each other as we are all sinners.

 

[Demetra2]

How VERY cleaver my dear! let us see if you get your way on that. I would think if she could be banned, there is a chance you could be banned or scolded for giving that information out on the public forum; if not you should be.

To me you seem to be on a which hunt because shelby is not coming around to your way of thinking (not the church’s way) your way. You have said she hijacked the thread which she did not. You have said she is a troll and on public forum trying to recruit others to your ways. I find your ways controlling and sad.

I am not of the age where people believe it is our “duty” to judge others so readily. I am of the age we look to ourselves first as sinners and try to better our own behavior before we look at others sins. There is a grace to being able to guide and teach people on Catholic teachings, I am sorry my dear but I did see that you have that yet. You simply come across in a mean spirit out to get someone.

This thread has to be the nastiest and most disgraceful that I ever come across with people flinging mud at each other. I think it should be closed.

 

[jmcrae]

Bottom line friend you don’t know what people are going through. I firmly believe in detesting the sin and not the sinner. I am not a slave to the 21st centry and you are correct it always is a person’s choice not to sin. But here is just 1 example to get my point across: The Lord said “Thou shalt not Kill” That means you mustn’t kill anyone correct? If you are lead to the choice to defend you or your family then would you let your family die? Which is the greater sin protecting your family and killing the one who comes to bring harm to your family or letting you and your whole family get killed? Surely I tell you as a protector of your family it is a greater sin to let your family die. Take the lesser of the 2 evils, Therefore in a split second you don’t know what you would do. Instinct would have you defend your family. God knows that. So you see in a person’s situation that you or anyone else doesn’t understand do not judge for any type of character or any sin or any person. Leave it to God to decide. Please private mail me if you have a rebudle to this and I would be happy to discuss it with you for this thread has gotten way out of hand and too judgemental.

False analogy - the commandment is “Do not murder” - it is not murder to kill an attacker when it is the only way to stop the attack. It is not a “lesser evil” to do so; it is an act of justice.

 

[einna]

This thread has to be the nastiest and most disgraceful that I ever come across with people flinging mud at each other. I think it should be closed.

AGREED! From all sides, may we ALL find grace as we are all sinners, yes I am a sinners before anything else.