How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

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RobGentner,

It is truly amazing to me that someone can be as rude and conceited as you consistently are in your posts. I can only hope that Protestants who read this forum won’t judge Catholics by your statements.
 
RobGentner,

It is truly amazing to me that someone can be as rude and conceited as you consistently are in your posts. I can only hope that Protestants who read this forum won’t judge Catholics by your statements.
brother Rob is just Humrous, PeterJ. Put some clothes on :onpatrol: (Your Ratbert quote on your postings) and get your ‘feel goods’ legally: Laughing! :dancing: :extrahappy:

Extensive research has proven that even Protestants, Atheists, and partiers get tricked into Thinking, by Humor, by would-be English Majors/Authors like Rob.
Vivat Jesus. Tony
 
RobGentner,

I really don’t like talking to you, but I can’t let your last post go by without comment.

When did SIA ever pretend to be a member of the RCC?
Originally Posted by RobHom
I have a better idea…why don’t you read Exodus, especially Chapter 20 and come back and give us your take on it. Then I’ll give you my take on it. Lets see if your “interpretation” of it is as warped as his.

You say you’re an Anglican…right? Or will you deny that and declare that you have jumped ship one more time?

SIA…for one who appears as intelligent as you do at times, you seem to have some very strong issues… and those issues drive you to step into situations where you already know the answers.

Why do you do it?

Please provide answers to questions…lets not tapdance around.

** Yesterday, 10:31 pm Posting 536
SIA
Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2007
Posts: 1,251

Re: I’m getting tired of hearing from Protestants that we worship Mary and
Yes, I am Anglican and proud to be. As to statues, icons and such, you I am sure should know that we have them in our churches as well. The church in which my wife was confirmed was beautifully decorated with the stations of the cross all around the sanctuary. The most beautiful icons of the stations that I have ever seen. We were also in a church this last summer that had breath taking icons of the saints all around the church. Awesome. You stirred up one of my favorite things here. I love icons and the such. It’s nothing at all to do with worship.

Thames Swim Team Class of 04’ **

** He said he is Anglican, almost worshipping statues, Icons!

Vivat Jesus. Tony**
 
RobGentner,

It is truly amazing to me that someone can be as rude and conceited as you consistently are in your posts. I can only hope that Protestants who read this forum won’t judge Catholics by your statements.
**Pete ~ If you are not careful You are going to force me take back my remark about finally meeting someone that isn’t judgmental!:tsktsk:

Show me one thing that I said “to anyone” that was Rude?
Also please show me one conceited thing I ever said in any post!
You can’t! Why not? Because they aren’t there. The sin is in the eye of the beholder not in the words I wrote! 🙂

Pete,
I am never rude to anyone. Why would I? Most people are sincere and reasonable here. Look at TalesFablesLies (I think that is his name, If I remember correctly. maybe not. If I got it wrong I hope you know who I meant.) Anyway how could you ever say I am rude? Show me one rude thing I ever said to any one! :hmmm: I always attempt to show Christian Kindness and love always!

I defend myself from the misguided people who attack our beliefs, but I never insult them or act rude. I try to understand their concerns and fears. :coffeeread: Why, many of them are my friends!
And If my being Catholic and in the “real” religion hurt the feelings of members of the imitation churches. (Now that wasn’t rude ~ That is a fact! It is in History books! :sad_yes: The RCC is the only christian church over 2,000 years old~ not 30, 300 or any other number! When you copy anything you are said to be imitating it. So they are really imitation churches! ) Anyway If I ever offended any of my Protestant Brother and Sisters I would truly be sorry and they would realize it wasn’t intentional! :whistle:

I can only hope that by your great example:bowdown2: they will learn about to forgive and not judge people. That is what I was taught the true religion taught. Maybe they would stop bashing our religion and us poor defenseless, uninformed, illiterate, weak followers of mary and the pope!

Your words touched my heart.Thanks for your wisdom:whacky: !

Rob**
 
** Gara - I will save you time; READ THE UNDERLINED PARTS!..**
This post will be directly about the City of God By Ven. Mary of Jesus, I would like to apologize that I will be going of subject here.
Code:
      Yes I have read that before.  The Jews and many heretics didn't like what Christ said or taught either.  To be honest most people will refuse to believe in private revelation, they seem to act as if cannon, dogma, or Scriptures are the only things that can been inspired by God.  Venerable Maria de Agreda also converted many Native Americans in Arizona, and New Mexico without ever leaving the Convent in Agreda, this is known as Bilocation.  I would also believe every word that she wrote because it is in complete harmony with all other Saints writings, with the Church Authority (cannon, dogmas), and the Holy Scriptures, and it is inspirational (when I read it I do feel Divine Influence, the same as when I read my Douay Rheims or Latin Vulgate).  She has passed away over 341 years ago and still looks as if she is merely taking a nap, her body was examined in the early 1900s (around 1912), and in 1989 again with no changes; Scientist are and have been unable to explain this and to this day are baffled.  There are many saint who are incorrupted, such as Saint Xavier, and Saint Teresa of Avila.  When they pulled up John XXIII body, he was faced down and his body was dried out, and they couldn't even open Pius VI casket for the smell was unbearable.  I will have to say though, with her body being  incorrupt, I know that the Revaluations that the Holy Trinity granted her is legit.  If you read her writing so many things make so much more sense.  Everything that Saint Monfort (and all other saints) wrote on Our Blessed Mother is there plus more.  If the Church were to give Her public approval of these private revelations (or any other revelations for that matter), they would have to be added as the deposit of Faith left by Christ, thus She has given a private approval.  The Apostles Creed was and is a Verbal Tradition, thus you do not find it in Holy Scriptures.  Something that Ven. Maria wrote about her interior feelings and fears:  
 *"Such assurance I have been solicitous to procure for the direction of my soul, and more particularly in this undertaking of writing the life of the Queen of heaven. I have frequently tried to prevent my superiors from being moved by any accounts of my interior experiences, disguising, as much as I could, many things, and in tears begging the Lord to enlighten them and to fill them with mistrust against me, to watch over them lest they be deceived or lest they permit me to be deceived or misdirected. Many times I have desired that the very thought of allowing me to engage in this enterprise would fade from their minds.
  • Code:
           *I received many commands from the Most High and from the Queen of heaven to write her holy life, and I continued in fear and doubt to resist these heavenly commands during all that time until the year 1637, when I began to write it the first time. On finishing it, being full of fears and tribulations, and be ing so counseled by a confessor (who directed me during the absence of my regular confessor), I burned all the writing containing not only this history, but many other grave and mysterious matters ; for he told me, that women should not write in the Church. I obeyed his commands promptly ; but I had to endure most severe reproaches on this account from my superiors and from the confessor, who knew my whole life. In order to force me to rewrite this history, they threatened me with censures. The Most High and the Queen of heaven also repeated their commands that I obey.”
  • She was urged interiorly and exteriorly to record the facts of history revealed to her concerning the Mother of God, she resisted for twelve years and was finally induced to write only through the positive commands of her superiors. Reluctantly she began her history in the year 1637 and finished it in the year 1645, continually asking to be relieved from the task because she thought herself unworthy. As soon as the insistence of her superiors relaxed and an error of judgment on the part of an outside confessor gave her a plausible excuse, she burned all her writings, thus destroying the labor of many years. When this came to the knowledge of the higher authorities and when they insisted on her rewriting the history which continued to be supernaturally made known to her, she again succeeded in delaying the task for ten years. Only the strictest command under obedience and the threat of censures finally induced her to write the manuscript which she began in 1655 and finished in 1665, and which is still preserved in the convent of Agreda.
 
As soon as the “City of God” appeared in print it was welcomed and extolled as a most wonderful work. The different translations found no less enthusiastic welcome in nearly all the European countries. It secured the immediate approbation and encomium of the ordinaries, the universities, the learned and eminent men of Christendom. There is probably no other book which was so closely scrutinized by those in authority, both civil and religious, and afterwards so signally approved as the “City of God.” By order of Innocent XL, Alexander VIIL, Clement IX., Benedict XIIL, and Benedict XIV. it was repeatedly subjected to the closest scrutiny and declared authentic, worthy of devout perusal and free from error. The title “Venerabilis” was conferred upon the author. A large sized volume would be required to record the praises and commendations written in favor of the great “City of God.”

As the “City of God” so strenuously maintains the prerogatives of the Mother of God and the authority of the Popes, it was not to be expected that it should escape the malicious slander and intrigues of those tainted with Jansenism and Gallicanism. Many members of the Sorbonne in Paris were secret or open adherers of these sects at the time when the “Ciudad” was first published in French about the year 1678. The first translation in French was very inexact and contained many interpolations and false versions of the original. Dr. Louis Elias du Pin and Dr. Hideux of the Sorbonne made this trans lation the foundation of virulent attacks. Du Pin was called by Pope Clement XI. “Nequioris doctrinse hominem,” “A man of pernicious doctrines.” Hideux turned out to be a rabid and fanatical Jansenist, cut off from the Church as a heretic. As they and other members of the Sorbonne succeeded in enlisting the sympathy of influential Gallican courtiers and church dignitaries, both in Paris and at Rome, they secured a clandestine prohibition of the “City of God,” which appeared in the acts of the Congregation of the Office. When it was discovered, no one could be found who would dare stand sponsor for it, and immediately Pope Innocent XL, on November 9, 1681, annulled the act, positively decreeing that the “City of God” be freely spread among the clergy and laity. The very fact that this prohibition did not issue from the Index Commission but from a department not concerned with the examination of books, proves that it owes its insertion to Gallican intrigue, secretly extending even to high circles in Rome, and to the fairminded, this sectarian attempt will be a convincing argument for the excellence and orthodoxy of the doctrines contained in the revelations of Mary of Agreda.

Would it not be absurd to concede the communication with evil spirits or departed souls, damned or otherwise, (and all reasonable people concede it), and deny the possibility of communing with the good spirits or souls and with God? Who would want to limit the power of God in this way ? It will not do to claim that all the communication of God and the good spirits takes the ordinary course provided in the public ministry of the true religion. For it does not. Saint Paul saw things that he dared not reveal, though he was not slow in writing down his other revelations. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and the Infallibility was privately revealed many times before they were officially defined and accepted as self-understood truths by all reasonable men. Before these doctrines were defined, who had the greater prudence and insight? Those people who refused to believe these truths because they were privately revealed, or those who examined those revelations and finding them humanly credible, and not contrary to the true religion, simply accepted them as revealed by God? I should think the latter showed them selves ahead of their times and far more enlightened in their belief than the former, who persisted in a finical unbelief concerning all private revelations.

Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake [Matth. 5, 11]
 
As soon as the “City of God” appeared in print it was welcomed and extolled as a most wonderful work. The different translations found no less enthusiastic welcome in nearly all the European countries. It secured the immediate approbation and encomium of the ordinaries, the universities, the learned and eminent men of Christendom. There is probably no other book which was so closely scrutinized by those in authority, both civil and religious, and afterwards so signally approved as the “City of God.” By order of Innocent XL, Alexander VIIL, Clement IX., Benedict XIIL, and Benedict XIV. it was repeatedly subjected to the closest scrutiny and declared authentic, worthy of devout perusal and free from error. The title “Venerabilis” was conferred upon the author. A large sized volume would be required to record the praises and commendations written in favor of the great “City of God.”

As the “City of God” so strenuously maintains the prerogatives of the Mother of God and the authority of the Popes, it was not to be expected that it should escape the malicious slander and intrigues of those tainted with Jansenism and Gallicanism. Many members of the Sorbonne in Paris were secret or open adherers of these sects at the time when the “Ciudad” was first published in French about the year 1678. The first translation in French was very inexact and contained many interpolations and false versions of the original. Dr. Louis Elias du Pin and Dr. Hideux of the Sorbonne made this trans lation the foundation of virulent attacks. Du Pin was called by Pope Clement XI. “Nequioris doctrinse hominem,” “A man of pernicious doctrines.” Hideux turned out to be a rabid and fanatical Jansenist, cut off from the Church as a heretic. As they and other members of the Sorbonne succeeded in enlisting the sympathy of influential Gallican courtiers and church dignitaries, both in Paris and at Rome, they secured a clandestine prohibition of the “City of God,” which appeared in the acts of the Congregation of the Office. When it was discovered, no one could be found who would dare stand sponsor for it, and immediately Pope Innocent XL, on November 9, 1681, annulled the act, positively decreeing that the “City of God” be freely spread among the clergy and laity. The very fact that this prohibition did not issue from the Index Commission but from a department not concerned with the examination of books, proves that it owes its insertion to Gallican intrigue, secretly extending even to high circles in Rome, and to the fairminded, this sectarian attempt will be a convincing argument for the excellence and orthodoxy of the doctrines contained in the revelations of Mary of Agreda.

Would it not be absurd to concede the communication with evil spirits or departed souls, damned or otherwise, (and all reasonable people concede it), and deny the possibility of communing with the good spirits or souls and with God? Who would want to limit the power of God in this way ? It will not do to claim that all the communication of God and the good spirits takes the ordinary course provided in the public ministry of the true religion. For it does not. Saint Paul saw things that he dared not reveal, though he was not slow in writing down his other revelations. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and the Infallibility was privately revealed many times before they were officially defined and accepted as self-understood truths by all reasonable men. Before these doctrines were defined, who had the greater prudence and insight? Those people who refused to believe these truths because they were privately revealed, or those who examined those revelations and finding them humanly credible, and not contrary to the true religion, simply accepted them as revealed by God? I should think the latter showed them selves ahead of their times and far more enlightened in their belief than the former, who persisted in a finical unbelief concerning all private revelations.

Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake [Matth. 5, 11]
**Gara, I disagree,:nope: and you know why!:yup: **
 
He said he is Anglican, almost worshipping statues, Icons!

Vivat Jesus. Tony
**Tony,
He isn’t really Anglican nor Catholic.:hmmm: In around 1978 or so, His church came into existence in response to the "Episcopal " Church’s heavy revision of the Book of Common Prayer. Church “Protesters” felt their church had abandoned the commitment to both scripture and historical Anglicanism. The decision to allow the ordination of women:bigyikes: was just one small part of a larger theological shift introduced by the revisions and opposed by the renegades. As a result of the desire to maintain the Apostolic tradition of male-only clergy 👍 and the exclusive use of historical Anglican liturgical forms. A “new” “improved” church was invented. It was called the Anglican Church in North America. Later because they wanted to “borrow”, I would never say “steal”, :tsktsk: somethings from our “real” church they changed "their name to the Anglican Catholic Church. Cute isn’t it? I guess If they also took things from the Lutheran and Morman churches. They would be the Anglican Catholic Lutheran Morman Church.:whacky:
I imagine it is kind of like taking the best parts from different cars to make a unique one.I am glad it isn’t my car! :whistle: I think that this makes them about number 59,947 of the 60,000 Christian churches since Número uno the RCC was established by Jesus in 33AD.

I could be wrong about some of the minor details after all I am a RC not an AC! Our buddy SIA might correct some litttle things and he might shed some light of what things they actually “borrowed” and when they will return them!:extrahappy: I think our Idols, errr Icons were the big thing! We didn’t need them anyway since we have Jesus and the real sacraments . SIA was a “real” Catholic for 30 years before jumping ship and swiming away from the Thames river. He know about our real sacraments etc, and he might be willing to tell us how their new imitation church differ from our real church. 👍 ! **
 
RobGentner,

It is truly amazing to me that someone can be as rude and conceited as you consistently are in your posts. I can only hope that Protestants who read this forum won’t judge Catholics by your statements.
Indeed, PeterJ, when or where was Rob ever conceited or rude? We must respect everyone here, including thse who put a Lot of time in helping others. Anything less is a TOS violation, a false accusation against a valiant writer of Church Truth and beauty. .
Vivat Jesus. Tony
 
**Tony,
He isn’t really Anglican nor Catholic.:hmmm: In around 1978 or so, His church came into existence in response to the "Episcopal " Church’s heavy revision of the Book of Common Prayer. Church “Protesters” felt their church had abandoned the commitment to both scripture and historical Anglicanism. The decision to allow the ordination of women was just one small part of a larger theological shift introduced by the revisions and opposed by the renegades. As a result of the desire to maintain the Apostolic tradition of male-only clergy and the exclusive use of historical Anglican liturgical forms. A “new” “improved” church was invented. It was called the Anglican Church in North America. Later because they wanted to “borrow”, I would never say “steal”, somethings from our “real” church they changed "their name to the Anglican Catholic Church. Cute isn’t it? I guess If they also took things from the Lutheran and Morman churches. They would be the Anglican Catholic Lutheran Morman Church.
I imagine it is kind of like taking the best parts from different cars to make a unique one.I am glad it isn’t my car! I think that this makes them about number 59,947 of the 60,000 Christian churches since Número uno the RCC was established by Jesus in 33AD.

I could be wrong about some of the minor details after all I am a RC not an AC! Our buddy SIA might correct some litttle things and he might shed some light of what things they actually “borrowed” and when they will return them!:extrahappy: I think our Idols, errr Icons were the big thing! We didn’t need them anyway since we have Jesus and the real sacraments . SIA was a “real” Catholic for 30 years before jumping ship and swiming away from the Thames river. He know about our real sacraments etc, and he might be willing to tell us how their new imitation church differ from our real church. ! **
:eek: Live and Learn! 🤓 Or is it Learn and Live? 👍 Friend PeterJ trying His new idea of being naked. :bluelite: :egyptian: Trying to get his Address to mail him some leftover clothing. Better than nothing in Winter! :winter:
Vivat Jesus. Tony
 
Rev. 12 says Mary? Not in my Bible.
hello,
Is Jesus our King? Than Mary is our Queen Mother, In Jewish Tradition and Culture, it was the kings mother, who counted not the kings wives.

That’:highprayer: s why Solomons brother goes to bathsheba to ask the king a favor.

Rev 11:19 **Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, **and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

Rev 12:1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, **a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; **

Rev 12:2 **she was with child **and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery.

Mary Is the Phyiscal ‘Ark’ of the Covenant whom carried Christ within her.

Hello??? If that isn’t Mary? Than whom do you say it is???

:highprayer:
 
Rev. 12 says Mary? Not in my Bible.
hello Sia,
Name me ONE other woman… whom the Power of the Most High overshadowed?

Whom was chosen by God to save Israel and the world, by their willing participation in God’s will?
Mary was an extraordinary person in the role of God’s plan for our Salvation.
God waited, what some four thousand yrs? For Mary,

Jesus loved his Mother, are we not to emulate Jesus?
No Mary… No Jesus
 
hello Sia,
Name me ONE other woman… whom the Power of the Most High overshadowed?

Whom was chosen by God to save Israel and the world, by their willing participation in God’s will?
Mary was an extraordinary person in the role of God’s plan for our Salvation.
God waited, what some four thousand yrs? For Mary,

Jesus loved his Mother, are we not to emulate Jesus?
No Mary… No Jesus
Well Said. We find so much great knowledge here, and we all Grow in wisdom as result. 😉
 
hello,
Is Jesus our King? Than Mary is our Queen Mother, In Jewish Tradition and Culture, it was the kings mother, who counted not the kings wives.

That’:highprayer: s why Solomons brother goes to bathsheba to ask the king a favor.

Rev 11:19 **Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, **and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

Rev 12:1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, **a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; **

Rev 12:2 **she was with child **and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery.

Mary Is the Phyiscal ‘Ark’ of the Covenant whom carried Christ within her.

Hello??? If that isn’t Mary? Than whom do you say it is???

:highprayer:
Not that I care much about the term Mary “Queen of Heaven”, since the only time in the scriptures where it’s mentioned the Queen of Heaven is a pagan deity that God wanted destroyed.

But what really calls my attention the most is the cherry picking of Jewish traditions that are not even part of the Law and Testimony to suit some doctrines, and rejecting all others that don’t fit what they want (I.e. Carving images of God and using them to pray and worship, the day of observance, etc.)

If the RCC wanted to separate from Judaism (“we are not Jews” I was yelled at by X person) and its practices, why then do they cherry pick this non levitical/non prophetic tradition to attribute a pagan title like Queen of Heaven to Mary?

From what I’ve seen so far here, Catholics will follow the doctrines of the Pope because they believe he’s under the protection of the Holy Spirit from lying. So trying to justify anything they believe by quoting from Scripture sources is kind of a waste of time if not following the Pope is apostasy. After all, he is the vicar of Peter or the vicar of Christ anyway, he can rewrite anything.

If the Revelation 12 reference about the sign in heaven is used, its obvious that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not describe Mary with the Revelation 12 characteristics. Rev 12 is therefore symbology of certain events. RCCs will say that woman is Mary, but as one reads the whole chapter in context, its evident that the woman represents God’s people and not a specific person. Since water was not casted at Mary and the earth didn’t swallow it, etc.
There are many other OT & NT references to God giving visions to prophets where God uses women to symbolize His people. Remember that Israel as a nation was awaiting, and claiming, and agonizing to God about the promised Mesiah. We can’t discard all other descriptions she had (clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, crown of 12 stars) God doesn’t speak in empty compliments, so if one can’t interpret the whole, it is best to not use speculation as doctrine. Just like we know Satan is not a literal dragon, and that the earth doesn’t have mouth, the woman is not necessrily Mary.

My tendency is to think that Catholics are capricious about Mary so it’s easier for them to not consider that, and they don’t want to apostatize against God by saying something different to the Pope. But the true and honest Bible student will do like Paul says: “prove all things, hold fast what is good”

I will not mandate what anyone should believe, but I suggest more careful and open minded study, not everything is black and white.

God bless.
 
hello,
Is Jesus our King? Than Mary is our Queen Mother, In Jewish Tradition and Culture, it was the kings mother, who counted not the kings wives.

That’:highprayer: s why Solomons brother goes to bathsheba to ask the king a favor.

Rev 11:19 **Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, **and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

Rev 12:1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, **a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; **

Rev 12:2 **she was with child **and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery.

Mary Is the Phyiscal ‘Ark’ of the Covenant whom carried Christ within her.

Hello??? If that isn’t Mary? Than whom do you say it is???

:highprayer:
Thank you John! 👍
 
If the Revelation 12 reference about the sign in heaven is used, its obvious that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not describe Mary with the Revelation 12 characteristics. Rev 12 is therefore symbology of certain events. RCCs will say that woman is Mary, but as one reads the whole chapter in context, its evident that the woman represents God’s people and not a specific person. Since water was not casted at Mary and the earth didn’t swallow it, etc.
Actually, Arglaze, Catholics believe that the woman in Revelation 12 represents both Mary and the Church.
 
From what I’ve seen so far here, Catholics will follow the doctrines of the Pope because they believe he’s under the protection of the Holy Spirit from lying. So trying to justify anything they believe by quoting from Scripture sources is kind of a waste of time if not following the Pope is apostasy. After all, he is the vicar of Peter or the vicar of Christ anyway, he can rewrite anything.
Mwah ha ha ha … where do they come from?

We do not believe the pope is under the protection of the Holy Spirit from lying.

Hang around a while longer. You will be humbled by how well Catholics know scripture. I would ask the other non-Catholic Christians reading to help back me up here. Even if you don’t agree with how we interpret it, we are absolutely immersed in scripture.

The pope is not allowed to rewrite anything.

Tell you what. If you want to know what Catholics teach, then ask a Catholic … or look in the Catechism.
No, the Catechism isn’t another gospel and we don’t think it is scripture. It is, however, FULL of scripture. The catechism is simply the teachings of the church … complete with scripture references.
The LAST thing you should do is look to a non-Catholic to get your understanding of the Catholic Church, which is obviously where you received your information.
Your statements above show gross ignorance and prejudice.

PLEASE admit, after reading this, that you might not actually understand what we believe.

Let’s discuss what I, as a Catholic, actually believe rather than your wrong view of what I believe.

c’mon … give us a break

michel
 
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