How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

[Arglaze]

Arglaze, (1) how do you explain your church’s bigining only 1863?
(2) Who are you to invent Massive number of falsehoods and false dates re THE 2,000 year old Church Our Lord founded?
(3) Aren’t you violating several essentials of Your Faith’s standards,# 12 like The Church is a Family of Believers, of different cultures, etc?

(4) Are only 15 Million of your church wordwide. Are 68 Million Catholics in the USA alone.

I ask these sincerely. Am Catholic, the Lord’s way.
Live in Jesus
Tony

Sure. My church is smaller and newer. Just like the apostolic church in Jesus’ days when the Jews claimed to be founded by God through Moses and this sect of the nazareites were so to say “apostates” from the mother “Jerusalem”.

The RCC holds the same ideas the Jews in Jesus’ days held. And if anyone really wants to follow as the RCC says, then the Christian church would have never been born. And they should go back to the Jews.

Fact is that the Roman Catholic Church is not 2000 years old as it claims to be.
The Christian Church is roughly 2000 years old and like Jesus teaches, it is not confined to a building or a title; it is those who heard the Word of God and do it. So by Jesus’ definition of who His’ people are, the RCC has a lot of years to catch up to many churches.
The RCC leadership departed from God few years after it became paganized through the introduction of many pagan practices. It is not surprising, since Israel was founded by Jesus also, but they departed from God too. Apostasy is a reality and no church is protected from it unless they speak according to the Word of God, which the RCC in many unscriptual doctrines does not do.

So this whole infalibility thing is not scriptual, I’m not here to make people join my church, what do I gain from that? But if I can convince 1 person that God’s Word is above the Church and man made doctrines, then I’ve gained someone for the Kingdom of heaven. Although, sometimes I get the feeling a lot of the Catholics here are priests and teachers, and people with bitter grudges against protestants, and not just average church members as myself, in which case it may b a waste, since they hold whatever the Church says above God’s Word.

Regardless, I don’t invite anyone to leave their church… Yet. God in due time works his wonders.

Going back to my church question. It was not easy for the first Adventists to leave their churches, but they were treated bad in them, some expelled, etc. Not gonna say the whole story, but in short, when you’ve learned a truth, and no one can find error in it, and you’re not allowed to practice it in the church you r in, then just like the Apostles, it’s time to move on.

If our church has any doctrine contrary to the Holy Scriptures, then challenge it, but even if my church started in the year 1 a.d. I would not acknowledge it if it doesnt adhere to the Word of God, the only Rule of Faith. The age of a church means nothing to an Almighty Immortal God, they who obey His Word are the sheep of his fold.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I did and I do believe the woman is Revelation 12:1-5 is Mary. I also believe the woman is also Jerusalem and the Church. If I were to take it literally, I believe the woman is Mary.

The Woman is Mary in Rev.12:1, for the fact is Jerusalem rejected the Messiah (Jesus), Jerusalem did not give birth to Jesus. Jesus came to them through the New Ark of the Covenant which is Mary.

The Ark of the old covenant was hidden by Jeremiah the Prophet, never to be revealed again until God reveals his Mercy again.

John the author of Revelations a first century Jew, found the Ark of the Covenant in heaven Revelation 11:19, the flashes and lightning introduces the new covenant of the New Ark (Mary) who housed the Word of God made flesh. The wood is now the flesh of Mary(her humanity full of Grace) that housed the humanity and divinity of Jesus Christ. This is God’s mercy being revealed thus Jeremiah’s prophecy fulfiled. IF this Ark was not Mary, we would not have Christianity today.

This teaching is older than any noncatholic or protestant faith past and existing.

 

[RobGentner]

Rob, after that post this is what i have learned: i know you can “copy and paste” .I see you need no lessons in that. I also think for myself, I can give lesson in that! I also know that you believe that the Word of God is not infallible**
No sane person should there were books written on errors in handwritten copies of the bible. The sixth commandment in one copy said “Thou shall commit adultery”!
The books were written over 5000 years! They were never proclaimed to be the final answer to anything except by “protesters” to the Real Holy Catholic Church extablished by GOD! Just think about the time! 5,000 years**

(i bet you think the Pope is),
**Nope, you are wrong, I “know” he is! Be very careful, You are walking on “Holy Ground” my friend! :tsktsk: Papal infallibility is the dogma in Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. The infallible teachings of the pope are part of the Sacred Magisterium, which also consists of ecumenical councils and the “ordinary and universal magisterium”. In our theology, papal infallibility is one of the channels of the infallibility of the RCC. The infallible teachings of the pope must be based on, or at least not contradict, Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture. Papal infallibility does not signify that the pope is impeccable, i.e., that he is specially exempt from liability to sin. The pope’s power has been used only once ex cathedra: in 1950 when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as being an article of faith for Roman Catholics. ** and that you have no clue what it means. Oh, almost forgot, you hate people that do not share what you believe.
**Actually I love all christians and even people who are not christian. We are all children of God! (Notice the capital G!)e **
PS: If you believe in a god (notice no capital G Rob) whose word is fallible tell him i want no part with him ok?
**
Sorry I pesonally know of no God, that I worship, whose "word’ is falliable.
However I do know people who make their own “gods” by worshiping a book written by man! :extrahappy: But they may not know the commandment from MY GOD prohibiting putting false gods before HIM!
He inspired the books of the bible, He gave His only son, He established His Holy Catholic Church.
There are now over 60,000 Christian denominations counting the real catholic ones, and over 25 versions of the bible. SIGH! **

 

[Sailka]

Sure. My church is smaller and newer. Just like the apostolic church in Jesus’ days when the Jews claimed to be founded by God through Moses and this sect of the nazareites were so to say “apostates” from the mother “Jerusalem”.

The RCC holds the same ideas the Jews in Jesus’ days held. And if anyone really wants to follow as the RCC says, then the Christian church would have never been born. And they should go back to the Jews.

Fact is that the Roman Catholic Church is not 2000 years old as it claims to be.
The Christian Church is roughly 2000 years old and like Jesus teaches, it is not confined to a building or a title; it is those who heard the Word of God and do it. So by Jesus’ definition of who His’ people are, the RCC has a lot of years to catch up to many churches.
The RCC leadership departed from God few years after it became paganized through the introduction of many pagan practices. It is not surprising, since Israel was founded by Jesus also, but they departed from God too. Apostasy is a reality and no church is protected from it unless they speak according to the Word of God, which the RCC in many unscriptual doctrines does not do.

So this whole infalibility thing is not scriptual, I’m not here to make people join my church, what do I gain from that? But if I can convince 1 person that God’s Word is above the Church and man made doctrines, then I’ve gained someone for the Kingdom of heaven. Although, sometimes I get the feeling a lot of the Catholics here are priests and teachers, and people with bitter grudges against protestants, and not just average church members as myself, in which case it may b a waste, since they hold whatever the Church says above God’s Word.

Regardless, I don’t invite anyone to leave their church… Yet. God in due time works his wonders.

Going back to my church question. It was not easy for the first Adventists to leave their churches, but they were treated bad in them, some expelled, etc. Not gonna say the whole story, but in short, when you’ve learned a truth, and no one can find error in it, and you’re not allowed to practice it in the church you r in, then just like the Apostles, it’s time to move on.

If our church has any doctrine contrary to the Holy Scriptures, then challenge it, but even if my church started in the year 1 a.d. I would not acknowledge it if it doesnt adhere to the Word of God, the only Rule of Faith. The age of a church means nothing to an Almighty Immortal God, they who obey His Word are the sheep of his fold.

No such thing as a “Christian” Church 2,000 years ago. The Only, Catholic, one was founded by Our Lord, on Peter and the 12 Apostles. There Was no Bible, except Old teastament. And were hundreds of ‘gospels and epistles’ (written long after the acepted ones, Selected as the Authentioc, Accurate Word of God in 387 AD and 2 more councils.
There was One Main liturgy, of the “Last Supper Feast”, and Real presence Eucharist, until 1500’s.
There was No such thing as ‘singing and preaching only’, until Calvin of 1500’s. He and Luther were strong Marinists, as waere almost everyone until last 200 years.

Again, Argaze there was no Written Word or Bible except the Old Testament. Apostolic Traditions begun By them, based on Our Lord’s teachings, practices began Before the New Testament Written Word. And they began the Siunday Sabbath Day observance Then, instead of the Jewish Saturday.
Live in Jesus. Tony

 

[Arglaze]

Arglaze, your list is ridiculous. Did you just copy the text from the first google hit you got? Nothing in that list is accurate, and you don’t do yourself any favors by thinking it is.

I don’t need to Google to refute RCC teachings. As far as the dates are concerned, I did some research over different websites and books. What’s wrong with that? Isn’t it ok to use all tools at our disposal to learn? Or should I just restrict myself to what the RCC teaches?
If these dates were used to confirm catholic points of view then I don’t think there would be a problem with it.
Please be more objective about it, you do no one a favor by accusing the messenger and not tackling the message. The doctrines above are not in the Holy Scriptures, but the RCC teaches them.

 

[Sailka]

I don’t need to Google to refute RCC teachings. As far as the dates are concerned, I did some research over different websites and books. What’s wrong with that? Isn’t it ok to use all tools at our disposal to learn? Or should I just restrict myself to what the RCC teaches?
If these dates were used to confirm catholic points of view then I don’t think there would be a problem with it.
Please be more objective about it, you do no one a favor by accusing the messenger and not tackling the message. The doctrines above are not in the Holy Scriptures, but the RCC teaches them.

                                                                                          Arglaze, I've 'Heard It All'  over the years.   But never heard the  known phony dates  and many allegations you posted.    New  "Men's ideas'.  Contrarry   to History,.   New Testament.  
                                                                              Know the Catholic Church LIVES Truth?  Truth, no spins Is Catholic Church Essence.   Is Opposite for attackers of  The Church.                                                                                    Kive in Jesus, Argraze.   Tony

 

[RobGentner]

Rob i read your previous post and i do not intent to commit the same mistake again, i mean, i am young but i do not have that much time to waste.

**
SFC I am old! so using your theory Ihave less time to waste than you! I have read all your posts. By mistake do you mean saying things that I disagree with and take the time to explain why to you. Yet when I do, you disregard what I say ,dismissing it and start making personal attackes about me and my GOD, and my religion? If you have avallid counter point, I am willing to listen. That is the Christian thing to do rather than getting upset or claiming I hate people. My friend, I would lay my life down for you and your beliefs! I would protect with my life anyone’s right to worship his God. I do not say those things lightly. And I will even swear on those things with my eternal soul as being true.

Now Go in peace my friend, I have no problem with you. The things you said were forgiven before I even read them!
God Bless!**

 

[Sailka]

**
SFC I am old! so using your theory Ihave less time to waste than you! I have read all your posts. By mistake do you mean saying things that I disagree with and take the time to explain why to you. Yet when I do, you disregard what I say ,dismissing it and start making personal attackes about me and my GOD, and my religion? If you have avallid counter point, I am willing to listen. That is the Christian thing to do rather than getting upset or claiming I hate people. My friend, I would lay my life down for you and your beliefs! I would protect with my life anyone’s right to worship his God. I do not say those things lightly. And I will even swear on those things with my eternal soul as being true.

Now Go in peace my friend, I have no problem with you. The things you said were forgiven before I even read them!
God Bless!**

God Bless, Both brothers.
Tony

 

[Arglaze]

No such thing as a “Christian” Church 2,000 years ago. The Only, Catholic, one was founded by Our Lord, on Peter and the 12 Apostles. There Was no Bible, except Old teastament. And were hundreds of ‘gospels and epistles’ (written long after the acepted ones, Selected as the Authentioc, Accurate Word of God in 387 AD and 2 more councils.
There was One Main liturgy, of the “Last Supper Feast”, and Real presence Eucharist, until 1500’s.
There was No such thing as ‘singing and preaching only’, until Calvin of 1500’s. He and Luther were strong Marinists, as waere almost everyone until last 200 years.

Again, Argaze there was no Written Word or Bible except the Old Testament. Apostolic Traditions begun By them, based on Our Lord’s teachings, practices began Before the New Testament Written Word. And they began the Siunday Sabbath Day observance Then, instead of the Jewish Saturday.
Live in Jesus. Tony

Of course the OT is what they studied from, the term Bible only means complilation of books. the RCC holds doctrines that are neither in the OT Scriptures, nor taught by the Apostles.

On the Sabbath, that I know of, they gathered on Sundays to worship, pray, etc. But that can be done any day, in fact many churches get together in other convenient days of the week for this, but those activities don’t imply the observance of the day. Since the fact that the OT is what they studied from and taught, then the 7th day Sabbath is the only day they could teach anyone that God says observe.
Jesus said he’s Lord of the Sabbath, not of the Sunday. And to avoid a long unnesesary and out of topic discussion, you’re welcome to send me a private.

And please tell me in scriptures, When did Jesus or the apostles commanded or practiced the observance of Sunday as the new Sabbath? Not Scripture study or preaching, but actual observance of the day. I think on this one the Pope’s writtings may be needed

 

[Arglaze]

                                                                                          Arglaze, I've 'Heard It All'  over the years.   But never heard the  known phony dates  and many allegations you posted.    New  "Men's ideas'.  Contrarry   to History,.   New Testament.  
                                                                              Know the Catholic Church LIVES Truth?  Truth, no spins Is Catholic Church Essence.   Is Opposite for attackers of  The Church.                                                                                    Kive in Jesus, Argraze.   Tony

Yeah, I don’t have a problem with the RCC membership; My problem is with the unscriptual doctrines the leadership presents. I’ve done the same thing when pastors in my church want to present unscriptual doctrines, and that is the big difference between the Catholic empire with its pope who no one can question.

In fact the RCC is very different from the Christian Apostolic Church. Paul rebuked Peter in front of people and confronted him regarding the truth. If Paul were to come today or in previous years and confronted the pope, I’m sure he’d b hanging on a pole right there.
And the Church cant live the Truth, if they are doing men’s traditions, and not the simple Scripture truths.
No one man is to be trusted, but the Word of God, which God has magnified above his Name.

 

[RobGentner]

Sure. My church is smaller and newer. Just like the apostolic church in Jesus’ days when the Jews claimed to be founded by God through Moses and this sect of the nazareites were so to say “apostates” from the mother “Jerusalem”.**Comparing yourself to the RCC aren’t you precious! :whacky: **

The RCC holds the same ideas the Jews in Jesus’ days held. And if anyone really wants to follow as the RCC says, then the Christian church would have never been born. And they should go back to the Jews.**We actually hold the ideas which Jesus brought to fulfill the Jewish laws! Why do you think Jesus was born? **

Fact is that the Roman Catholic Church is not 2000 years old as it claims to be. God’s One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church which is now called the RCC is infact over 2000 years old! ,
The Christian Church is roughly 2000 years old and like Jesus teaches, it is not confined to a building or a title; it is those who heard the Word of God and do it.** So you changed your mind? Great! I agree with you 100% We are the Body of Christ! We call ourselves the RCC. We worship in buildings to keep the rain off our heads! However the Holy Spirit is in our hearts, and Jesus is our Head! **
So by Jesus’ definition of who His’ people are, the RCC has a lot of years to catch up to many churches.Well bless your heart! :whacky:
The RCC leadership departed from God few years after it became paganized through the introduction of many pagan practices.** I was wondering, do you drink? **
It is not surprising, since Israel was founded by Jesus also,Memo to self: Look for reference in bible about Jesus founding Israel! but they departed from God too. Apostasy is a reality and no church is protected from it unless they speak according to the Word of God, which the RCC in many unscriptual doctrines does not do.The living church doesn’t have to refer back to written documents to explain itself! It follows God’s teachings and explain them to the lost!

So this whole infalibility thing is not scriptual, I’m not here to make people join my church, what do I gain from that? **a couple of more members? Must be lonely being alone, I would think!**But if I can convince 1 person that God’s Word is above the Church and man made doctrines, then I’ve gained someone for the Kingdom of heaven.**Or condemned them to eternal damnation. Who knows God’s will? Not ME! ** Although, sometimes I get the feeling a lot of the Catholics here are priests and teachers, and people with bitter grudges against protestants, and not just average church members as myself, in which case it may b a waste, since they hold whatever the Church says above God’s Word.The Church "IS" God’s Word! That is the point!

Regardless, I don’t invite anyone to leave their church… Yet. God in due time works his wonders.**Yes, He does! **

Going back to my church question. It was not easy for the first Adventists to leave their churches, but they were treated bad in them, some expelled, etc. Not gonna say the whole story, but in short, when you’ve learned a truth, and no one can find error in it, and you’re not allowed to practice it in the church you r in, then just like the Apostles, it’s time to move on.You become your own god, if you only believe what your mind tells you. Don’t you see that? I believe in the RCC by “FAITH” that and the sacraments are the foundation of my belief system. I have no doubt that other denominations will be in Heaven, but I also have no doubt it will be through the “graces” of the RCC.

If our church has any doctrine contrary to the Holy Scriptures, then challenge it, **OK, One “big” one, ready? no where in the bible does it say it is infallible! If it does quote it!, no where does it say IT is the source that you must follow! it does say follow God and Jesus! It never says to follow a book! understand?**but even if my church started in the year 1 a.d. I would not acknowledge it if it doesnt adhere to the Word of God, the only Rule of Faith. **One rule of Faith: Believe in the Holy Catholic, Church?The age of a church means nothing to an Almighty Immortal God, they who obey His Word are the sheep of his fold.

We agree again, but I don’t think you would like my interpretation of what I think you said! So I will just say

**

 

[Arglaze]

RobGentner:
By your definition of what the RCC is and stands for then Martin Luther never apostatized, since he too was a priest, and he too was Catholic. So therefore, what he taught is in fact the RCC teachings.

How come Catholics decide who in the church lives the Truth?
Oh I see. If he fills the pockets of the church, then its Truth, but if he doesnt do penance, and goes up stairs on his knees to beg forgiveness of the pope, then he’s acursed.
Big difference between the humble apostles and the popes.

God tells us his Word, we don’t tell God what his Word should be.
God made us, not the other way around, therefore God’s Word commands the Church and the Church must obey. We don’t worship a book or words, we worship the One who speaks them to the Church and the message he gives us through them.

Live in Jesus’ Words by obeying them. And by the way, when Jesus told the Pharisees that He existed before Abraham, and that Moses wrote of Him, who do you think wrote the commandments on the 2 tables with His fingers? Unless of course a person doesnt believe Jesus existed before Mary and that He created the world. Yes. Jesus founded the Israelites.

 

[SFC]

**
SFC I am old! so using your theory Ihave less time to waste than you! I have read all your posts. By mistake do you mean saying things that I disagree with and take the time to explain why to you. Yet when I do, you disregard what I say ,dismissing it and start making personal attackes about me and my GOD, and my religion? If you have avallid counter point, I am willing to listen. That is the Christian thing to do rather than getting upset or claiming I hate people. My friend, I would lay my life down for you and your beliefs! I would protect with my life anyone’s right to worship his God. I do not say those things lightly. And I will even swear on those things with my eternal soul as being true.

Now Go in peace my friend, I have no problem with you. The things you said were forgiven before I even read them!
God Bless!**

Rob, i apologize for disrespecting you personally. If by attacking God you mean i do not believe in a god that has a fallible Word, you are right. I know there is only one God and i think we both believe in Him
In respect to the Roman Catholic Church i probably disagree with a lot of what you believe.
you tell me if you still want to discuss this with me

 

[Arglaze]

Ok? Could u explain to me how I become my own god if I read the Word of God and it doesn’t tell me to worship the virgin Mary (rest in peace) and it tells me that the only way to the Father is Jesus (not the saints or angels) and no one can prove from the Scriptures anything different?

These things were not taught by the original apostles, and I happen to believe all necessry Truth for salvation is in the OT and what the Apostles wrote in the NT. Therefore excuse me when I say the pope has no authority at all in matters of salvation unless he teaches it from the Word of God.

Now, I believe that if I make 1 man have ultimate authority when it comes to doctrine and salvation, and I choose to follow him, and that man is not Jesus, then I’ve made a god for myself.

The pope believed in evolution 4 goodness sake. Can’t u see how capable the church is of erring? The RCC is not what the Apostolic church was, and as long as they don’t leave behind all the unscriptual doctrine, they can’t claim to be the Word of God.

 

[Peter_J]

Hi Arglaze,

Fact is that the Roman Catholic Church is not 2000 years old as it claims to be.

The thing about that is that we could go back and forth all day: Roman Catholics say that the RCC has been around for 2000 years and the Eastern Orthodox Church for only 1000 years; EOs say that the EOC has been around for 2000 years and the RCC for only 1000; Protestants (I assume) would say that neither has been around for 2000 years …

It all depends on who you think is “the one true church” and who broke away from whom, etc.

 

[RobGentner]

Rob, i apologize for disrespecting you personally. If by attacking God you mean i do not believe in a god that has a fallible Word, you are right. I know there is only one God and i think we both believe in Him
In respect to the Roman Catholic Church i probably disagree with a lot of what you believe.
you tell me if you still want to discuss this with me

**
SFC
You are a good person. I thank you for your apogogy. It actually wasn’t needed, I have no problem with you. As I said ,the things you said were forgiven before I even read them! It begs the question however, If you can’t understand another human being that you have much in common with, how can you expect to understand our God? Who are we to even try and determine His intent and Limit His actions? Seriousely, people have dedicated their entire lives to do just that. God wants us to enjoy this life. Our desire, without even knowing it is to worship Him. It is His desire that we do just that, hense the commandments.
People have “false” gods. Money, Position, “Things” that they put before God. I sincerely feel that anyone that trys to “limit” God is sinning. Anyone that thinks we completely understand Him is a sinner, anyone that takes books originally written by man and only intended to be used in worship services to share beliefs and draw us closer to God and correspondence to different churches to spread the Good News about Our Lord and Savior and say that “These books contain everything God said, and it He didn’t say it here is isn’t True!” is a sinner.
But that is just my humble opinion as a thinking rational God fearing man who worships God on Faith. I believe and read in order to understand, I do not attempt to understand in order to believe. (Sorry St Augustine! ) I do not believe only Catholics will be in heaven,That isn’t taught by my church. I loved and respected my Mother while she was alive. I understand a son’s love for his Mother. How could Jesus the “perfect” man not love and respect His Mother? Think about that, pray about that…and you will come to understand a little about how the Catholic Church “respects” Mary. She was a human creature, created by God, She is not a Goddest, just a poor servant to the Lord! God Bless you and all of us as we struggle with our burdens. God loves us all He truely does! (even “them”
God Bless!**

 

[SFC]

**
SFC
You are a good person. I thank you for your apogogy. It actually wasn’t needed, I have no problem with you. As I said ,the things you said were forgiven before I even read them! It begs the question however, If you can’t understand another human being that you have much in common with, how can you expect to understand our God? Who are we to even try and determine His intent and Limit His actions? Seriousely, people have dedicated their entire lives to do just that. God wants us to enjoy this life. Our desire, without even knowing it is to worship Him. It is His desire that we do just that, hense the commandments.
People have “false” gods. Money, Position, “Things” that they put before God. I sincerely feel that anyone that trys to “limit” God is sinning. Anyone that thinks we completely understand Him is a sinner, anyone that takes books originally written by man and only intended to be used in worship services to share beliefs and draw us closer to God and correspondence to different churches to spread the Good News about Our Lord and Savior and say that “These books contain everything God said, and it He didn’t say it here is isn’t True!” is a sinner.
But that is just my humble opinion as a thinking rational God fearing man who worships God on Faith. I believe and read in order to understand, I do not attempt to understand in order to believe. (Sorry St Augustine! ) I do not believe only Catholics will be in heaven,That isn’t taught by my church. I loved and respected my Mother while she was alive. I understand a son’s love for his Mother. How could Jesus the “perfect” man not love and respect His Mother? Think about that, pray about that…and you will come to understand a little about how the Catholic Church “respects” Mary. She was a human creature, created by God, She is not a Goddest, just a poor servant to the Lord! God Bless you and all of us as we struggle with our burdens. God loves us all He truely does! (even “them”
God Bless!**

Rob I agree with almost everything you said. I do not believe that the Bible has everything that God said and that nothing is true unless it is contained in it, but I do believe that the traditions of the church should not be in conflict with the Bible. We do not share the same opinion on the Authority of the Bible.
You have read my post when i quoted from the Catechism about Mary and her role as mediatrix and sustainer of the prayers of the church. That to me goes against the Word of God and falls into a traidition created by man. I will tell you what i do believe about Mary. She was picked by God to bring our Savior into this world. That alone says volumes about her. God knew that she would say “I am your handmaid and whatever you want to do i will obey”. God is looking for people that are willing to do His will. For the Jewish woman to be put in that position (pregnant and single) was pretty much a death sentence. She showed a deal of faith that we all should imitate. But, as you said she was a created creature. She was not born sinless or continued that way. She is to be called blessed for all generations.
On my first post i asked if it was possible to go to heaven if one does not believe in the Marian doctrine of the RCC. You are the only person that has answered it directly (over 600 posts later).

 

[Arglaze]

Of course it was, Jesus preached to the dead. He hadn’t ascended to His Father. To say that the phrase I say to you today, you will be in paradise, is silly. What other time would He be speaking about? Jesus was being crucified and an extra word would have been painful. No Jesus meant that the thief would be with Him that day.

1. Though Jesus was in pain, His words were inspired still by the Holy Spirit, so pain little to do with what the Spirit had Him speak. We weren’t there, and we can’t read Jesus thoughts at that moment, but I know they were inspired.
2. Jesus did not preach to the dead (that’s not in the Holy Scriptures and probably another man made teaching not put to the test).
3. The phrase is a grammatical error. The correct phrase is “Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise” (Future). “Today”, is used only for emphasis in the promise, remember the original script did not have punctuations.
4. And this context is properly understood because Jesus did not go to Paradise that day either, since Paradise is where the Tree of Life is, and where the Father’s throne is. Revelation 2:7 “…tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.” The throne of the Father and the Lamb is where paradise is, where Stephen, while being stoned, saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of God. How can you go to Paradise and not see God?
   Jesus confirmed the same thing at His resurrection by forbidding Mary to touch him, since He hadn’t gone to the Father yet. (John 20:17)

Its obvious then that Him and the thief did not go to paradise that day. Its a misunderstanding of Jesus’ statement at the cross.

Only the Holy Spirit can guide minds to understand this precious truth, I don’t expect anyone to swallow it easily, and I’d be skeptic if someone did, Study and Prayer alone can clarify the Word of God.

 

[Arglaze]

Your whole post is unhistorical.

I decided just to answer this part.

Matthew 191. [12] For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Total misinterpretation of the text by the RCC to say God aproves celibacy.

I’m not going to teach an entire history lesson just to show off, I’m just pointing the dates around which these doctrines emerged, and the fact that they were not instituted by the Apostles.

Celibacy is unscriptual, but the implementation of it was predicted by Paul when he said.

1 Timothy 4:1-3
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.”

Therefore, its not hard to see that somewhere along the time line, the Roman Catholic Leadership departed from God in many ways (just like the Jews), and guided many to practice and worship in ways that God never asked them to do in Jesus or the Scriptures by imposing their traditions above the Word of God.

 

[Sailka]

**
SFC
You are a good person. I thank you for your apogogy. It actually wasn’t needed, I have no problem with you. As I said ,the things you said were forgiven before I even read them! It begs the question however, If you can’t understand another human being that you have much in common with, how can you expect to understand our God? Who are we to even try and determine His intent and Limit His actions? Seriousely, people have dedicated their entire lives to do just that. God wants us to enjoy this life. Our desire, without even knowing it is to worship Him. It is His desire that we do just that, hense the commandments.
People have “false” gods. Money, Position, “Things” that they put before God. I sincerely feel that anyone that trys to “limit” God is sinning. Anyone that thinks we completely understand Him is a sinner, anyone that takes books originally written by man and only intended to be used in worship services to share beliefs and draw us closer to God and correspondence to different churches to spread the Good News about Our Lord and Savior and say that “These books contain everything God said, and it He didn’t say it here is isn’t True!” is a sinner.
But that is just my humble opinion as a thinking rational God fearing man who worships God on Faith. I believe and read in order to understand, I do not attempt to understand in order to believe. (Sorry St Augustine! ) I do not believe only Catholics will be in heaven,That isn’t taught by my church. I loved and respected my Mother while she was alive. I understand a son’s love for his Mother. How could Jesus the “perfect” man not love and respect His Mother? Think about that, pray about that…and you will come to understand a little about how the Catholic Church “respects” Mary. She was a human creature, created by God, She is not a Goddest, just a poor servant to the Lord! God Bless you and all of us as we struggle with our burdens. God loves us all He truely does! (even “them”
God Bless!**

Being one of “them”, I Know God loves even me! I get proof non-stop. The non-alcoholic type.
Tony :knight1:
Vivat Jesus (Whichever it means) Tony