How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

[RobGentner]

**Originally Posted by SIA

1. Mary could not be the mother of God. God always was and has no beginning. Mary had a natural birth as a natural human.**

We are correct in saying “Jesus is God,” right? We could go into more detail and explain that He is the Second Person of the Trinity incarnate as a man, but “Jesus is God” is a true statement by itself, yes?

** I am amazed that you would even attempt to explain to SIA. **
**
Originally Posted by SIA
Scripture does not tell us that Mary was conceived without sin. Even St. Thomas Aquinas said that Mary could not have been conceived without sin because of the Scriptures telling us that Mary rejoiced in God her savior. St. Thomas Aquinas is canonized saint in the RCC and I don’t believe anybody posting here is. **

Mary is mother of God in the same sense. Of course she is not the origin of the Trinity, nor even of the Son, but she conceived, carried, and gave birth to a man who was truly God. She is mother of the Second Person of the Trinity incarnate, or (as with Jesus above), “mother of God” for short.
That ancient doctrine about Mary has never meant that she is greater than God or the origin of the Trinity. It was defined in order to safeguard the union of the Divine and human in Jesus, by proclaiming that God can truly be said to have been born to a human woman.

St. Thomas was entitled to his opinion at the time, but the judgments of even the most saintly theologian are not held to be infallible.
SIA is using a non-scriptual source to disprove what he wants disproved, but won’t acknowledge it to prove Mary was sinless. How double standard is that? You can’t agrue with this type of individual. He will only attack your reasoning over and over again! There are people who want to learn and they come for that. There are people whow ant to treach and are not catholic teachers but still come to try and do that. Then there are the ones who come to argue.

God was and is Mary’s savior, **for if she was immaculately **conceived it can only have been by His direct action.
Dogma of Faith: SHE WAS !
It’s not as though we’re saying the IC is some great credit to Mary, any more than any of us had anything to do with our own conceptions.AMEN!

Scripture identifies no other children of Mary. Brothers and sisters of Jesus are mentioned, yes, but we know from the usage of the time that they could have been more distant relatives. Nor are we ever told anything like “And Joseph knew Mary his wife and she brought forth a second child.” That the “brothers and sisters” of Jesus could be children of Mary and Joseph is a **reasonable ** ** I think not! **assumption, but it remains an assumption. The same gospel that names four brothers of the Lord repeats the names of two of them (including the unusual form “Joses”) as sons of a different Mary who was present at the Crucifixion.

By the second century, Mary’s perpetual virginity was already being proclaimed and no one wrote against it for centuries, despite the Scriptural mention of Jesus’ possible siblings. Perhaps they knew something we don’t? Would the students of St. James of Jerusalem so quickly forget, if their teacher had been known to be Mary’s son?

That’s true. Enoch, Elijah, and maaaybe Moses (not directly but by way of Jude’s reference to a non-Scriptural work on Moses’ assumption). On the other hand, Mary was likely alive when much of the New Testament was written, and even when she did die, her Assumption would have been one miracle among many occurring in the early Church, and not one particularly central to the message. Even in the Catholic Church, the Assumption only became the fourth Marian dogma a little over fifty years ago, by popular demand.Or God’s plan???

Only if you have a highly exaggerated idea of “the Mary of the Catholic Church.”

Usagi

 

[water]

Protestants object to this , saying that there is only one mediator: 1 Tim 2:5. We agree that there are many ways in which Christ is the only mediator between God and man. 1) There is only one mediator who is such by very nature, being both true God and true man. 2) There is only one mediator whose whose work is necessary, without whom, in God’s plan, there could be no salvation. 3) There is only one mediator who depends on no one else for power.

Mary differs on all three counts. 1) Mary only a creature, but it was appropriate that God be freely choose her as Mediatrix because he had made her Mother of the God-man, the Redeemer–it was she who on behalf of the whole human race consented to God’s plan of salvation by proclaiming herself the handmaid of the Lord. 2) Her role was not necessary, since Christ was and is the perfect Redeemer and the perfect Mediator. Rather, Mary was associated with her Son by the free decision of the Father, a decision which we cannot ignore. 3) Her whole ability to do anything comes entirely from her Son, and hence we are not contradicting Lumen gentium # 62 which says no creature can be ever counted together with Him.

read more … at ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm

 

[RobGentner]

read more … at ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm

**:clapping: Very well stated and explained! However not all Protestants! Some do believe in Mary etc. But generally you are 100% on target! **

 

[Sailka]

1. Mary could not be the mother of God. God always was and has no beginning. Mary had a natural birth as a natural human.
2. Scripture does not tell us that Mary was conceived without sin. Even St. Thomas Aquinas said that Mary could not have been conceived without sin because of the Scriptures telling us that Mary rejoiced in God her savior. St. Thomas Aquinas is canonized saint in the RCC and I don’t believe anybody posting here is.
3. Again, Scripture doesn’t say anything about Mary remaining a virgin. It in fact tells us that she had other children besides Jesus and says nothing to the contrary that Mary led a normal married life with Joseph.
4. Scripture tells us of Enoch being assumed into Heaven body and spirit but never anything about Mary.

As you can see clearly, the Mary of the Catholic church is a far different Mary than the Mary in Scripture.

God was not human, except as Jesus, given Birth by Mary. Don’t believe Jesus was God? Then you are not Christian, just kinda too independent Only your new ideas are correct? Mary ‘Mother of God’ is Figurative

And The Bible does Not say everything. 2 Verses so say. It wold be Library of books if it did. Our Lord appointed the Apostles Who Knew him as The Teachers and Leaders of his New Church, to Teach, Rule. Our Lord Put the Truth in the Apostles, and his Church: 1 Timothy 3:15. Nowhere does God say He is Putting it in a Book, and Nowhere does he tell the Apostles to write things down.
And Jesus Had no Blood siblings. The Aramaic Language of the time had no word for uncles, cousins, etc. Then, as Blacks do so well now, Call every one inj Group/Ethnicity as ‘brother, sister’. In Lord’s Time it also meant follower.
/LIST Tony

 

[RobGentner]

****Adrift my brother, Know one thing! You you Loved! Not for what you believe, but because you prove you are a child of God’s! "tumbsup:

You say:" does not contradict because you are misusing the word Paradise. It is not Heaven He refers to but where those souls wait for Him. If there weren’t a waiting place than where was Moses? He appeared to Jesus before the Resurrection. He was not in heaven as Jesus had yet to redeem him. Scripture tells us hat Jesus preached to the spirits which would include Moses.

good questions!

Remember one thing: Jesus loves you! And I meant YOU! Isn’t our Lord GREAT??

**Blessed be the name of Jesus! ******

:clapping:

 

[RobGentner]

**My Brother Christians, If you personally thank that Oba,I would say : Jesus Sales . o deceive you in a yway! hat

To do so might endanger both of our immortal souls! I willl not permit that to happen!


So I say: May our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ, protect and save all of us. We ask this though God, the Son, and our Savior **

 

[maryj]

Rob, couple of ideas for you, use spell check, it will make reading your posts a lot easier. I read the last one 4 times and I still have no idea what you are trying to say. The blue font is typically harder to read also. You have so many good things to say, why hinder the reading of them. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Sailka]

Rob, couple of ideas for you, use spell check, it will make reading your posts a lot easier. I read the last one 4 times and I still have no idea what you are trying to say. The blue font is typically harder to read also. You have so many good things to say, why hinder the reading of them. Just my opinion of course.

Rob is brilliant participant. And has the Secret Weapon: Humor
He and my problem is we get worn out by Hours posting suggestions online here. Notice he posted 2:43 AM! Details like spelling slip by! Thanks for reminding us. :clapping: :tiphat: Vivat Jesus. Tony

 

[RobGentner]

Rob is brilliant participant. **Blushing! ** And has the Secret Weapon: Humor
He and my problem is we get worn out by Hours posting suggestions online here. Notice he posted 2:43 AM! Details like spelling slip by! Thanks for reminding us. :clapping: :tiphat: Vivat Jesus. Tony

**Thank you for the kind words Sailka!

“Humor is in fact an essential element in the mirth of creation. We can see how, in many matters in our lives, God wants to prod us into taking things a bit more lightly.” —Pope Benedict XVI **

maryj:

Rob, couple of ideas for you, use spell check, it will make reading your posts a lot easier. I read the last one 4 times and I still have no idea what you are trying to say. The blue font is typically harder to read also. You have so many good things to say, why hinder the reading of them. **Just my opinion of course. **

**It wasn’t typed that way. I don’t think
I kind of understand it but won’t repeat what it did actually say ( a mod may read )
Yea, I realize it is your opinion. Thanks for sharing it with me! God Bless PS I like my blue font! **

 

[John_oxios]

And how do you justify Mary queen of Heaven by the Scriptures? And, prove to me how Mary plays any role whatsoever in our Salvation?

Oh this is too simple!!
As Fr. Corapi says:
"No Mary!!! No Jesus!!

Jesus receives all His Human attributes, DNA, from Mary.
The Angel Gabriel addresses her full of Grace.

Look up Gideon who was also sent a messenger Angel, who used these words, “The Lord is with you” Just as Gideon is chosen to save Israel, Mary is chosen to save Israel, by particpating in God’s plan of Salvation for the whole entire World.

God bless,
Johnnie o

 

[John_oxios]

Hi,

This discusses 1 Timothy 2:5
catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp

In regards to Hebrews 7:26, I encourage you to pray to the Father through Jesus and ask Him:
If He gives us Mary as our mother whom we can ask for intercession.

**If **the Catholic Church has the the fullness of truth.

If the Eucharist which is centrally related to the priesthood of Jesus is Jesus Himself and not a mere symbol.

Hello Coder,

You gots a few if’s up there where there ought to be none!!!

                  We can ask anything of anyone, whether we get it is horse of a different color.  Catholics blieve we are all alive in the Body of Christ, so the saints of old are right there in eternity amongst the heavenly Church.

If you do not ask, you don’t receive? Well think of all the missed oppotunities you are missing? In the case we are correct?
Remember God hears Rachel weeping for her children 800 yrs after death.See it in Jeremiah 3;15. also:

Mat 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping [for] her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

Blueletterbible.Org
David Guzik (a Protestant) commentary, Matthew chapter 2:
b. A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, weeping, and great mourning: This quotation from Jeremiah 31:15 originally referred to the mourning of Israel’s mothers during the conquest and captivity of the nation. But here, Rachel is a picture of Bethlehem’s mothers.

Now if rachel is a picture Bethlehem’s Mothers and is honored and venerated as such in the hebrew faith? How much so is Mary, Mother of Christ, who came to save the whle world?

Mary is honored and venerated for the role she has played in salvation history.
Worship capital ‘W’ for God and God alone, in the Latin the Roman Catholic Church uses the term ‘Lattria’

back in the day, people addresssed those of honor as ‘your worship’ and ‘your lordship’ nothing to do with God or addressing men as gods.
The term in latin for honor and veneration for men of honor "Dulia’

Now The Church places Mary above all men, but definitely below God, in the latin we have the term for Mary, ‘Hyper Dulia’ which means honor above men.
Protestants get hung up on the word worship, english is a limited language, all three latin terms translate to English as worship… and Protestants try to have a field day with those who do nopt know where the term worship comes from… hardly anybody takes Latin as a 2nd language any more.

As far as your next ‘IF’

**If **the Catholic Church has the the fullness of truth

My Bible says something contrary to your If.

It says the Church is the Pillar and bulwark of truth!!!
It says the Church is the manifold of God’s wisdom

I can take that to the bank!!!

1Ti 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Eph 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
Eph 3:9 and to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things;
**Eph 3:10 ** that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.

The Eucharist? When Jesus says, This is my Body’ very Semtically He is saying, “From now on this is My Body”
Ck out The Interpreters Bible (Abingdon press, 1966 found in most local libraries) On this verse and look on its exposition.

In the Eucharist we re-present Christ sacrifice on the Cross, Jesus established His Church through and gave them the authority to Bind and loose in His name.

The priesthood is nothing new to God’s people, He uses it throughout the O.T. to help guide his chosen people.

Paul himself as a Pharisee a separate sect/ a priest, who would

1. a member of a Jewish sect that flourished during the 1st century b.c. and 1st century a.d. and that differed from the Sadducees chiefly in its strict observance of religious ceremonies and practices, adherence to oral laws and traditions, and belief in an afterlife and the coming of a Messiah.

NewAdvent.com (excerpt)_

The more zealous among the Jews drew apart calling themselves Chasidim or “pious ones”, i.e., they dedicated themselves to the realization of the ideas inculcated by Esdras, the holy priest and doctor of the law. In the violent conditions incidental to the Machabean wars these “pious men”, sometimes called the Jewish Puritans, became a distinct class. They were called Pharisees, meaning those who separated themselves from the heathen, and from the heathenizing forces and tendencies which constantly invaded the precincts of Judaism (1 Maccabees 1:11; 2 Maccabees 4:14 sq.; cf. Josephus Antiq., XII, 5:1).

Show me where biblically Christ denounces the Priesthood?
Not including those who abused it?

Wasn’t King David, a Priest and a king?

Paul never renounces his jewishness, his pharisaic background, he embraces it, and moves on In Christ.

God bless,
Johnnie O

 

[RobGentner]

God bless,
Johnnie O

**
Hi Johnnie, Glad to see you back! You are nothing , if not Verbose!**

Coder:

Hi,

This discusses 1 Timothy 2:5
catholic.com/library/Inte…the_Saints.asp

In regards to Hebrews 7:26, I encourage you to pray to the Father through Jesus and ask Him: If He gives us Mary as our mother whom we can ask for intercession.
**I did! He said: Sure, no problem, after all she is My Son’s Mother! **

If the Catholic Church has the the fullness of truth.
** I did, and He said : Well, it is the one “true” church that my Son established. He never lied how could His church? **

If the Eucharist which is centrally related to the priesthood of Jesus is Jesus Himself and not a mere symbol.
**Coder, here my friend you are “walking” on Holy ground. Be very careful. ~ Your eternal soul depends on it!

Let me ask you ~ Did Jesus lie? When He said: "‘I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.’ The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.’"John 6:51-56

Remember Coder, If He isn’t in the Eucharist, YOU can’t be saved because Jesus said: ‘Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.’ So you tell me ~ WAS JESUS LYING? :bigyikes:

Now, foolish child, get on your knees and pray for forgiveness My God is a merciful God, how about yours? God Bless!
**

 

[SIA]

Oh this is too simple!!
As Fr. Corapi says:
"No Mary!!! No Jesus!!

Jesus receives all His Human attributes, DNA, from Mary.
The Angel Gabriel addresses her full of Grace.

Look up Gideon who was also sent a messenger Angel, who used these words, “The Lord is with you” Just as Gideon is chosen to save Israel, Mary is chosen to save Israel, by particpating in God’s plan of Salvation for the whole entire World.

God bless,
Johnnie o

So then, is it your position that if Mary said no or never existed at all, God would have never brought Jesus into the world?

 

[RobGentner]

So then, is it your position that if Mary said no or never existed at all, God would have never brought Jesus into the world?

SIA<
**
Hi old friend, How are you? I wondered where you have been. Is everything OK? By the way from your questions can I ask you one? Did you drown during your swim of the Tiber? It seems that you brought your beliefs from your old religion with you. Mary “could not” refuse. God knows everything, so He knew she wouldn’t refuse. Yes she had free will, God knew her heart. So if she would have said “No” God would not have picked her! Understand? Head hurting yet? I can type slower if you need me to.:bounce: Mary is the “Mother” of Jesus! Is it your position that you don’t know what you are saying? :extrahappy: You said: **“So then, is it your position that if Mary said no or never existed at all, God would have never brought Jesus into the world?” **Really SIA ,does that question really state what you wanted to ask? Why not say:" I believe this" or “I believe that” rather than asking questions that don’t make any sense? :slapfight:

Wait until Johnnie reads your post!

Have a good day, and write more often!
God Bless
**

 

[SIA]

SIA<
**
Hi old friend, How are you? I wondered where you have been. Is everything OK? By the way from your questions can I ask you one? Did you drown during your swim of the Tiber? It seems that you brought your beliefs from your old religion with you. Mary “could not” refuse. God knows everything, so He knew she wouldn’t refuse. Yes she had free will, God knew her heart. So if she would have said “No” God would not have picked her! Understand? Head hurting yet? I can type slower if you need me to.:bounce: Mary is the “Mother” of Jesus! Is it your position that you don’t know what you are saying? :extrahappy: You said: **“So then, is it your position that if Mary said no or never existed at all, God would have never brought Jesus into the world?” **Really SIA ,does that question really state what you wanted to ask? Why not say:" I believe this" or “I believe that” rather than asking questions that don’t make any sense? :slapfight:

Wait until Johnnie reads your post!

Have a good day, and write more often!
God Bless
**

Didn’t you quote Fr. Corapi as saying, “No Mary, No Jesus”.? If he or yourself cannot be taken at your word, just let me know.

Did you know what else Fr. Corapi once said?

 

[RobGentner]

Didn’t you quote Fr. Corapi as saying, “No Mary, No Jesus”.? If he or yourself cannot be taken at your word, just let me know.

Did you know what else Fr. Corapi once said?

**
**SIA Do you drink? No, I never Quoted Fr Corapi, Johnnie did.:aok:

What I did do was ask you : Why not say:" I believe this" or “I believe that” rather than asking questions that don’t make any sense?"**

And rather then answering that straight forward question you come back with another question that once again makes no sense.:banghead:

Yes, I listen to Fr Corapui every day. A funny man. But he isn’t “the authority”. But it appears as if you think you might be ~ SO PLEASE SHARE WHAT YOU THINK!
Rather than asking quastions that make no sense. Could you be a convert from the Hebrew religion? Answer questions with questions?

I ask you point blank:

What is your point?

Do not respond with a question please. A question requires a response like I gave you when you asked me:

"Didn’t you quote Fr. Corapi as saying, “No Mary, No Jesus”.?
**
I responded:

No I never quoted Fr Corapi , Johnnie did.**
**See how easy it is? It works we call it conversation ! Now could you try to answer?

I actually do know a lot of what Fr Corapi said. He is a funny guy! He once said: "There are a lot of crazy people out there! ":extrahappy: That cracked me up ~ He seems to always be correct! ** **

 

[SIA]

**
**SIA Do you drink? No, I never Quoted Fr Corapi, Johnnie did.:aok:

What I did do was ask you : Why not say:" I believe this" or “I believe that” rather than asking questions that don’t make any sense?"****

And rather then answering that straight forward question you come back with another question that once again makes no sense.:banghead:

Yes, I listen to Fr Corapui every day. A funny man. But he isn’t “the authority”. But it appears as if you think you might be ~ SO PLEASE SHARE WHAT YOU THINK!
Rather than asking quastions that make no sense. Could you be a convert from the Hebrew religion? Answer questions with questions?

I ask you point blank:

What is your point?

Do not respond with a question please. A question requires a response like I gave you when you asked me:

"Didn’t you quote Fr. Corapi as saying, “No Mary, No Jesus”.?
**
I responded:

No I never quoted Fr Corapi , Johnnie did.**
**See how easy it is? It works we call it conversation ! Now could you try to answer?

I actually do know a lot of what Fr Corapi said. He is a funny guy! He once said: "There are a lot of crazy people out there! ":extrahappy: That cracked me up ~ He seems to always be correct! **

Okay, fair enough. Let me start by asking you if you agree with what Fr. Corapi did say. As far as what I believe; I believe that Mary is the greatest woman who ever lived. I believe that she is foremost of all the Saints in Heaven. She and the Saints pray with us to God. I love Mary for her “yes”.

 

[RobGentner]

Okay, fair enough. Let me start by asking you if you agree with what Fr. Corapi did say. As far as what I believe; I believe that Mary is the greatest woman who ever lived. I believe that she is foremost of all the Saints in Heaven. She and the Saints pray with us to God. I love Mary for her “yes”.

**Yes, I and most Catholics Believe that What Mary did makes her the greatest Woman that ever lived. But remember, she was a humble pheasant woman. Who are we to judge that she is the formost of all the Saints in Heaven? What position she has there, should matter not I believe. She and all the Saints do pray for us, that is part of what the "communion of saints do in heaven… Now isn’t it better when you make statements? I was always a Jesus Guy, until I became a Knight of Columbus and vowed to pray the rosary. It makes you a Mary person!

God Bless**

 

[SIA]

**Yes, I and most Catholics Believe that What Mary did makes her the greatest Woman that ever lived. But remember, she was a humble pheasant woman. Who are we to judge that she is the formost of all the Saints in Heaven? What position she has there, should matter not I believe. She and all the Saints do pray for us, that is part of what the "communion of saints do in heaven… Now isn’t it better when you make statements? I was always a Jesus Guy, until I became a Knight of Columbus and vowed to pray the rosary. It makes you a Mary person!

God Bless**

We pray the Rosary as well to meditate on Christ.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

And how do you justify Mary queen of Heaven by the Scriptures? And, prove to me how Mary plays any role whatsoever in our Salvation?

God chose Mary to be his mother.

He needed a human woman to be born as a human. That is Mary’s role. It’s simple.

Rev. 12 speaks of Mary in Heaven with a Crown. That seems clear enough to me.