How do future child molesters get through seminary?

[KMC]

KMC:

Also false is the idea that the CC has more of an issue than other organizations, and

Except, the fact that only CC have the Eucharist, and the fact those priests celebrate mass everyday, and still fall to such terrible sin over and over again. I thought such scenario was impossible.

Ecxept, the fact that the church teach moral theology and would hold highest moral standard in her operations.

I think it is fair that we expect more from CC than other organization.

I think you have missed my point. I agree with you that the CC should have higher standards, and I think the reforms that have taken place show signs of a higher standard (again, more can be done). But my point refers to the narrative in the media, which is the CC has more issues with sex abuse than other entities…the facts show this is not the case.

 

[KMC]

In the past, I knew that being a moral person alone is not enough to go to heaven. Now, the more I am convinced that moral theology has failed to even make us moral people.

As the saying goes, “you can lead a horse to water…” Ultimately, grace is what makes us moral people, not a teaching. Most people are aware of Catholic moral theology, or at least a fair portion of it, they just choose to not follow it.

 

[PetraG]

In the past, I knew that being a moral person alone is not enough to go to heaven. Now, the more I am convinced that moral theology has failed to even make us moral people.

The fact that intellect alone does not a whole person make doesn’t mean that formation of the intellect isn’t necessary to make a whole person.

Moral theology serves to correctly form the intellectual dimension of our conscienc. We need it because wanting to do the right thing isn’t enough. Responding to feelings such as guilt or empathy isn’t enough. We need to have informed consciences, not just willing consciences.

Having said that, knowing the boundaries of behavior that surround a life of integrity is also not enough to lead us to become the saints we are meant to be. Moral theology is only a piece of the puzzle, not the whole picture.

 

[francisca.chapter3]

My difficulty with moral theology, particularly for example, that it teaches that a sin, in order that it is mortal, it has to be from free choice. Many examples in real life and in bible stories, shows that many times people commit serious sin, are deceived into it (example adam & eve, judas iskariot), or wrong believe (ex. Sarah gave her slave to abraham), or addiction (ex. drug addiction causing prostitution), and many more.

Roman 7:19
19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So, IMHO, moral theology teach the opposite of what St. Paul teach. In fact, St. Paul teach that even if a person is completely ignorant of the law, he will still die in his sin.

Jesus and the whole bible teaches that people in sin are slaves. The whole context of slavery is to depict the nature of sin is the fact that the person is enslaved, and despite this unfree choice the whole context of this slavery is to bring death to the person.

 

[GiftofMercy]

You don’t need to try to put words in my mouth. I did not say that.

you continually say i am free to believe this or that or have this or that opinion, so yes, you are saying it.

My stats of the time come from the clergy itself. And is a figure discussed with that era.

Thus my point that you may wish to out me on ignore… In any event, I am putting you on ignore.

Conflict is not in disagreeing with another’s view. It is a great pity you think this way.

Lets put this on another level. The Diabolical loves attacking consecrated souls. Leading them away from God and to the path of destruction. This happened in Seminaries and in Parishes and in Diocese. We are dealing with the fall out now.

What is the best remedy we can have against the diabolical? Prayer, the Rosary , and the sacraments, especially confession.

Pray for the clergy

 

[JimG]

When I was taught about morality, virtue, and sin, back in elementry school, we all understood the three elements of mortal sin, but we especially understood grave matter. Not many of us then thought to use the other two elements in order to excuse bad behavior. But it’s a lot more common now to find mitigating factors for something we really know is wrong.

 

[commenter]

There definitely is a connection between doctrinal vagueness, moral relativism, and personal actions of seminarians and priests (and everyone else).

If you are in seminary in the 1970s, you are influenced by Catholic Theological Society of America, and Fr Charles Curran. It doesn’t make you masturbate but if you already inclined to that, it reduces your efforts to resist it. One accommodation leads to another.

One seminary the rector assigned all students to watch porn, to better understand the Laity. Each little step taken down that road makes it easier to justify more steps, that you earlier would not have expected you would ever have taken.

 

[GiftofMercy]

You might find this 1.8 million dollar study commissioned by the Church in USA to be of interest .

What caused the crisis? Key findings of the John Jay College study on clergy sexual abuse

Key findings of the John Jay College Study on clergy sexual abuse

www.americamagazine.org

 

[Rau]

You’d think their rottenness would manifest in seminary in ways their superiors would see.

Or ways there parents would see? Or their work associates or their best friends? It seems these things are often well hidden.

 

[jack63]

Wow…very interesting article. From the article…

44 percent of offenders entered the priesthood before 1960.

This kind of completely blows up the theory that liturgy changes that occurred around the 1960s were somehow the root cause of the abuse.

 

[JimG]

Yes, I think it is more supportive of the theory that the sexual revolution of the 1960’s had a corrupting effect on all of society including seminarians and priests. I don’t recall the source, but I read somewhere that most of those ordained prior to the 1960’s didn’t begin abusing until the sexual revolution was in full swing.

 

[commenter]

Yes, I think it is more supportive of the theory that the sexual revolution of the 1960’s had a corrupting effect on all of society including seminarians and priests. I don’t recall the source, but I read somewhere that most of those ordained prior to the 1960’s didn’t begin abusing until the sexual revolution was in full swing.

For some offenders, such as pedophiles, social and cultural changes are less important than their own personal background.

For other offenders, the great majority, the larger social changes do have a big effect even years after ordination.

 

[Vico]

…

Matthew 13

18 Hear you therefore the parable of the sower. 19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, there cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart: this is he that received the seed by the way side. 20 And he that received the seed upon stony ground, is he that heareth the word, and immediately receiveth it with joy. 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but is only for a time: and when there ariseth tribulation and persecution because of the word, he is presently scandalized. 22 And he that received the seed among thorns, is he that heareth the word, and the care of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choketh up the word, and he becometh fruitless. 23 But he that received the seed upon good ground, is he that heareth the word, and understandeth, and beareth fruit, and yieldeth the one an hundredfold, and another sixty, and another thirty.