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dbranch
Guest
This topic sure brings out strange behavior. I’ve already been seen as defending child molestation. If anyone can explain to me why my original post is not a valid concern please do.
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1ke
Guest
You don’t have facts regarding current seminary procedures and processes.
Most of them attended seminary or had abuse accusations over 20-30 years ago.
Since that time the Church significantly changed their seminary processes and introduced the Charter for Protection of Young People.
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KMC
Guest
Most of the abuse took place PRIOR to the reforms instituted as a result of the John Jay report
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dbranch
Guest
Well, how did those priests get through?
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GladTidings
Guest
These are people who have realized at an early age that they are different and understand they need to hide that. They become very good at fooling people. My priest has said one time that he looks for people in the community of the parish who show signs of this, but it is difficult. For example, people who eye kids too long, talk to them away from their parents, etc.
If you are saying there should be some kind of spiritual guidance to recognize this, there just isn’t in most cases. Although I would think someone like Padre Pio could have that ability, for example.
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KMC
Guest
I would argue that those in the proper department have made tremendous progress…to the point that the Catholic Church in the US today has less of a problem with sexual abuse than any other organization. (Again, until the number of abuse cases is zero…more work can and does need to be done)KMC:
I’m not an expert on screening seminarians, not at I a car mechanic, I don’t need to have a solution for either this or my car problems. I’m saying there is a problem and those in the proper department can find a solution.
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dbranch
Guest
Thank you for answering my question.
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KMC
Guest
therein lies the problems addressed by the reforms in the US.
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Angel_Bradford
Guest
Our applicants go through a psychological evaluation, as I am sure most dioceses do. But sexual predators are master manipulators and can probably pass most any test they are put through. The years of discernment include evaluations from seminary faculty and counselors which, hopefully, will pick up on any red flags.
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dbranch
Guest
@Angel_Bradford
Thank you for another good answer, and for not attacking me over my concern about children.
Thank you for another good answer, and for not attacking me over my concern about children.
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commenter
Guest
People didn’t know much about sex abuse years ago. Then, about 1960, they misused the new information they got. For instance, psychologists claimed a propensity to sex abuse was treatable. Thus, the bishop was told Fr X was cured, so he was moved to a new parish.
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JimG
Guest
In the past, some seminaries were known for their welcoming of heterodox applicants. (See Michael Rose’s book Goodbye Good Men.) But I believe that those abuses have long since been corrected.
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GladTidings
Guest
How do they get into seminary? Chances are, they have been caught doing or attempting to do something sinister to a younger child when they were in their teens, so why were their parents not able to deal with it and stop them from entering the seminary? Was it at a time before the crisis? Did the parents think all was resolved?
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KMC
Guest
My apologies if you thought I was attacking you personally. That was not my intent. I have been in numerous conversations about this topic, and I AM trying to combat unfair narratives about the issue. If you read the MSM, you would think all new stories about abuse are new cases, in fact the vast majority took place prior to 2002.
Another aspect that is unfair is the idea the CC has done nothing to combat the issue. The statistics would show otherwise.
Also false is the idea that the CC has more of an issue than other organizations, and they will usually follow this up with “there needs to be married priests”, “celibacy causes this”, or “we need married priests.” The organization that statistically has the highest rate of abuse is the public school system (based on a 2004 report by the Dept. of Education…I don’t know of new studies, and all of the newer articles all refer back to this same report). Certainly the CC has the greatest moral responsibility to address the issue, but many people I debate with literally, and intentionally in some cases, overlook the issue in the public school system.
All people in the CC in the US who interact with children (be they priest, bishops, deacons, lay, or volunteers) have to be “cleared.” That involves a background check and training that must be updated every year. Outside of the confessional, children (or other at risk people) are not allowed to be alone with a single adult in a closed room. All rooms must be open, and the effort must be to have 2 cleared adults minimum in all rooms.
I say all of this, because in order to solve the problem, we must know exactly what the problems were and are. A lot has been done, and until abuse cases hit zero, more must be done.
Lastly, I’m also a bit sensitive to the topic, because of the bigoted attacks on good priests. Child molester jokes are OK if against priests…but its odd that child molester jokes are never OK against teachers, even though the public school system has a far worse problem than the CC.
We, as Catholics, need to be honest about the abuse that took place, put the victims first, and solve the problems. We also need to not tolerate bigoted attacks on good priest, who are secondary victims in this scandal.
Another aspect that is unfair is the idea the CC has done nothing to combat the issue. The statistics would show otherwise.
Also false is the idea that the CC has more of an issue than other organizations, and they will usually follow this up with “there needs to be married priests”, “celibacy causes this”, or “we need married priests.” The organization that statistically has the highest rate of abuse is the public school system (based on a 2004 report by the Dept. of Education…I don’t know of new studies, and all of the newer articles all refer back to this same report). Certainly the CC has the greatest moral responsibility to address the issue, but many people I debate with literally, and intentionally in some cases, overlook the issue in the public school system.
All people in the CC in the US who interact with children (be they priest, bishops, deacons, lay, or volunteers) have to be “cleared.” That involves a background check and training that must be updated every year. Outside of the confessional, children (or other at risk people) are not allowed to be alone with a single adult in a closed room. All rooms must be open, and the effort must be to have 2 cleared adults minimum in all rooms.
I say all of this, because in order to solve the problem, we must know exactly what the problems were and are. A lot has been done, and until abuse cases hit zero, more must be done.
Lastly, I’m also a bit sensitive to the topic, because of the bigoted attacks on good priests. Child molester jokes are OK if against priests…but its odd that child molester jokes are never OK against teachers, even though the public school system has a far worse problem than the CC.
We, as Catholics, need to be honest about the abuse that took place, put the victims first, and solve the problems. We also need to not tolerate bigoted attacks on good priest, who are secondary victims in this scandal.
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Thom18
Guest
They get in the same way that future apostates do. They get in the same way that future alcoholics do. They get in the same way that future saints do.
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PetraG
Guest
No, most offenders are not caught. Even adult victims are less than 50% likely to report a sexual assault. The parents of pedophiles who have acted on their inclinations as teens may not even be aware of what their child has done. More to the point, people who are attracted to children don’t have to have acted on the impulse to have it. This is something that people are usually ashamed to admit and that in any case not something they advertise. People who are convicted of a crime against children are re-convicted 20% of the time or less, so it is seems highly likely that people who have offended in their teens but not been caught would not be caught in the future, either.
This is why prevention efforts now in place do not assume that offenders can be identified prior to offending. Offenders are very good at hiding their intentions, if other people aren’t on the lookout.
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commenter
Guest
Seminaries today get blamed for the mistakes of seminaries yesterday. But even if a seminary now is consciously trying to do a good job, consider what they are up against.
With the possible partial exceptions of home schoolers and grads of colleges like Steubenville, incoming students are far less academically prepared than 50 years ago, especially related to Philosophy.
Furthermore, most have been far exposed to soft core porn through TV, movies and internet. Even if their hearts are in the right place, their attitudes have been molded by a culture that is anti Christian, especially related to sexuality.
Pray for the seminaries.
With the possible partial exceptions of home schoolers and grads of colleges like Steubenville, incoming students are far less academically prepared than 50 years ago, especially related to Philosophy.
Furthermore, most have been far exposed to soft core porn through TV, movies and internet. Even if their hearts are in the right place, their attitudes have been molded by a culture that is anti Christian, especially related to sexuality.
Pray for the seminaries.
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nfinke
Guest
Because they don’t have horns or walk around laughing maniacally. If evil was so obvious and easy to pick out of a crowd the world would be a much much happier place to live. People are married to serial killers or child molesters for years and are shocked when the news comes out.
To put it another way, this isn’t Satan’s first rodeo.
To put it another way, this isn’t Satan’s first rodeo.
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
Keep in mind that most child molesters were, themselves, molested as children.
It’s very possible their brokenness doesn’t manifest in the seminary setting. They might be trying to be “chaste” by hook or by crook.
TBF…
Most molested children dont grow up to molest other children.
But I also don’t claim to understand the psychological process of how a person who was abused goes on to become an abuser.
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Joegrane
Guest
It is more difficult for the average person to identify than you might think.
Some time ago I looked at the list of priests who were out of ministry in my diocese due to sexual misconduct. I knew more than a few of them. A few of them I knew during the two years I was in the seminary.
A couple of the priests always creeped me out. I was not surprised to see them in the list.
One priest in the list I did not know well but I admired him as a very devout and prayerful man. I was shocked to see him in the list. He is an older man now. I wonder if he does not fit the textbook description of a pedofile but rather fell into serious sin with a 17 year old when he was a young priest. By “fell into” I am implying a fall in a moment of temptation, not a premeditated situation.
Others who were in the list were average guys. They had some admirable qualities and some imperfections as seminarians.
One guy whose case is pending since he contests the allegation was admirable as a fellow seminarian. You could tell he was going to be terrific at youth ministry. He had such an admirably attractive, outgoing personality, yet he was also a prayerful guy. There are not many of those priests. Being in youth ministry puts those guys in the line of fire.
We should pray for everyone involved.
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How do future child molesters get through seminary?
They clearly have no spiritual life or maturity. Isn’t that exactly what priests must have?
You’d think their rottenness would manifest in seminary in ways their superiors would see.
Some time ago I looked at the list of priests who were out of ministry in my diocese due to sexual misconduct. I knew more than a few of them. A few of them I knew during the two years I was in the seminary.
A couple of the priests always creeped me out. I was not surprised to see them in the list.
One priest in the list I did not know well but I admired him as a very devout and prayerful man. I was shocked to see him in the list. He is an older man now. I wonder if he does not fit the textbook description of a pedofile but rather fell into serious sin with a 17 year old when he was a young priest. By “fell into” I am implying a fall in a moment of temptation, not a premeditated situation.
Others who were in the list were average guys. They had some admirable qualities and some imperfections as seminarians.
One guy whose case is pending since he contests the allegation was admirable as a fellow seminarian. You could tell he was going to be terrific at youth ministry. He had such an admirably attractive, outgoing personality, yet he was also a prayerful guy. There are not many of those priests. Being in youth ministry puts those guys in the line of fire.
We should pray for everyone involved.
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How do future child molesters get through seminary?
They clearly have no spiritual life or maturity. Isn’t that exactly what priests must have?
You’d think their rottenness would manifest in seminary in ways their superiors would see.
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