how do i deal with gay cousin/his boyfriend during Thanksgiving dinner?

[EasterJoy]

Friend is absolutely rude, and if you had referred to my husband as my ‘friend’ or ‘housemate’ when we were engaged and living together or dating and living together, I would have firmly but politely corrected you, as many times as necessary. If it became obvious that you were going to intentionally persist, we would have a very open conflict. It is rude to attempt to redefine the nature of someone else’s relationship in terms that make you more comfortable. That’s belittling. (And that’s not even considering how belittling it is to call someone’s serious partner a friend.)

It isn’t about wanting everyone to know the relationship is sexual. Even “chaste” couples use boyfriend/girlfriend/fiance/fiancee/husband/wife to demonstrate that that relationship is special, exclusive, and placed above all others. If it were just about sex, they wouldn’t bother. And husbands and wives would revert back to friends after one became permanently unable to have sex.

But those words mean something special and unique. I

You would have corrected me when you were living together? How? And what did you mean by putting “chaste” in quotation marks, exactly? Perhaps you are “belittling” chastity? Besides, are we trying to have a conflict here at Thanksgiving, right in front of Grandma? Nice job!

*“Pardon me! He is NOT my friend. He is my __________, and I’m very insulted that you reduced him to a mere friend!” *Please fill in the blank and tell me what you have gained, exactly. And if I responded with, “Oh. Well. I hope you’re still friends, all the same,” and change the subject, I fail to see how that is insulting. Remember that you are having Thanksgiving dinner with people who have elected not to chide you about your scandalous living situation. Are you really going to blow up Thanksgiving over this? Is it that hard to put this obvious point of contention aside for a day?

 

[EasterJoy]

Here’s what you do. Go to the gathering, and if they start holding hands or kissing or something, just look over at them and say, “Do you mind?” with a look on your face. Or if that doesn’t work, say, “I have no desire to see that. What you do is your business, but there are children here. Please.”

That’s exactly what I would do.

EDIT: Actually, if they started kissing, I would stand up, collect my children, and walk out. True story.

If the guests aren’t nuzzling their spouses, I do not see how anyone can quarrel with this. It is just staying off the subject of what is and is not a moral sexual relationship.

 

[Joseph73]

If the guests aren’t nuzzling their spouses, I do not see how anyone can quarrel with this. It is just staying off the subject of what is and is not a moral sexual relationship.

I wouldn’t propose being obnoxious about it. But if the subject comes up, it would be a sin to remain silent because this represents tacit approval.

Additionally, if you merely change the subject rather than quickly and deftly shooting down the sin (verbally), you are allowing fear to rule you. Not good.

 

[EasterJoy]

I wouldn’t propose being obnoxious about it. But if the subject comes up, it would be a sin to remain silent because this represents tacit approval.

Additionally, if you merely change the subject rather than quickly and deftly shooting down the sin (verbally), you are allowing fear to rule you. Not good.

If you said, “Do you mind? Do you see anyone else here doing that?” and they don’t cut it out, then I don’t have a problem with making an exit. A truce takes two sides to work; as I said before, one side can elect to turn the other cheek, but you don’t get to a truce by one side just running up a white flag. To turn the other cheek is to remain standing, neither fighting back nor agreeing to be knocked down to be used as a doormat.

 

[Joseph73]

If you said, “Do you mind? Do you see anyone else here doing that?” and they don’t cut it out, then I don’t have a problem with making an exit. A truce takes two sides to work; as I said before, one side can elect to turn the other cheek, but you don’t get to a truce by one side just running up a white flag. To turn the other cheek is to remain standing, neither fighting back nor agreeing to be knocked down to be used as a doormat.

It’s really a matter of degree. They walk in holding hands, I give them a look. They talk about their relationship without shame and do more handholding and etc., I say, “I don’t believe in that.” They start making out at the table, I stand up and leave with no words possible.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

As a single adult, I might probably go and just be polite. As a parent you would have to ask yourself this: If your child is ready for a discussion about homosexuality then take them, and have a good talk before and after and encourage them to be polite. However, if your child is not ready yet, it is okay in my opinion to stay home. Again, not a judgment of sin but a parenting decision.

My blood pressure just goes through the roof when people speak that it is beneficial to expose our children to every kind of sin and deviant lifestyle at from early age in order to promote tolerance and Christ-like love. Clearly parents have that right, however I disagree but disagreeing does not make me a bad Christian, it just makes me a different parent. There is a requirement for me as a Christian to love others, there is not a requirement for me as a Christian to expose my young children to things they are not ready for there is a difference.

I had a young child that probably never would have noticed two men together, then I had another that seemed to notice everything and probably never would have taken their eyes off of them and would have been TOTALLY confused. With this child I would have chosen to stay home, and probably waited until they were older and more capable of handling the situation. Just as I am very pro-life but would have never taken my younger ones to an abortion clinic to pray, because some of the images on the photographs were just too much for them emotionally. That doesn’t mean I am not pro-life! This is a parenting decision and discerning what my child is and is not ready for is my job.

You know I explained to my children what sex was without telling them about gay sex, oral sex, threesomes and prostitution…these things clearly exist and my children will learn about them in due time but first things first. Contraception and other mortal sins are just as evil, but as a parent let’s be honest here, what are my children going to notice and ask about on the way home??? They are not going to ask about the couple using birth control pills or the person missing mass, they are going to ask about the gay couple or the cross-dresser so as a parent I need to as myself if my child is ready for this discussion.

Yes to this. My first thought, too, on reading the OP, was that there are two different issues here. As an adult with no children, I would most likely go. But when you add children to the equation, that brings up a whole other set of issues. I wouldn’t be comfortable exposing younger children to this, and I would probably stay home, if I thought the cousin and his boyfriend would be showing physical affection and talking about their anniversary, etc.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You would have corrected me when you were living together? How? And what did you mean by putting “chaste” in quotation marks, exactly? Perhaps you are “belittling” chastity? Besides, are we trying to have a conflict here at Thanksgiving, right in front of Grandma? Nice job!

"Pardon me! He is NOT my friend. He is my __________, and I’m very insulted that you reduced him to a mere friend!" Please fill in the blank and tell me what you have gained, exactly. And if I responded with, “Oh. Well. I hope you’re still friends, all the same,” and change the subject, I fail to see how that is insulting. Remember that you are having Thanksgiving dinner with people who have elected not to chide you about your scandalous living situation. Are you really going to blow up Thanksgiving over this? Is it that hard to put this obvious point of contention aside for a day?

How would I have corrected you? Politely. “Actually, he’s my boyfriend, we’re coming up on three years together”, or, “Actually, it’s fiance. He popped the question last April”. I don’t typically let people minimize my relationships while counting on the fact that there’s nothing I can say about it. If you kept at it, you and I would have stepped outside after dinner for a frank discussion. If you smugly replied “well, I hope your friends all the same” I would let it go until after dinner. Once everyone was back to mingling I would probably say something like “I’m so glad you and your buddy could make it” in a lighthearted, “joking” tone. And this is assuming that I handled it before my husband got the chance. If he spoke before I did he would just give you a dirty look and correct you with “You know BEL and I have been together for several years, please refer to her as my girlfriend/fiance”.

It isn’t about having your sex life recognized, and you know that. Otherwise, your husband would just be your friend. Describing someone’s serious partner as a friend is rude and belittling, and its meant to be.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Unfortunately this is where Catholicism and your belief in no God at all really cross paths, because it is not meant to be belittling, although this is getting heated so not sure if this will help. As a Catholic, living my faith I cannot refer to two men as each other’s husbands because it is not truth. You can call it truth all day long, it’s still not the truth according to God but that’s why we will probably not agree because you do not believe there is even a God.

I would refer to two men together as each other’s friend not to belittle them, but because I do not want to be caught in the lie of calling them husband or fiancé. I would probably just avoid the topic as best as I could. Not sure if that helps at all, at least from a practical standpoint I hope it makes sense why we cannot acknowledge the relationship no matter how nice the couple is or how much they mean to one another.

Even if you don’t feel comfortable with husband, there is always partner. It has long been the accepted compromise term. And straight, cohabiting couples can still be called boyfriend/girlfriend/etc. If you just can’t bring yourself to acknowledge the relationship at all, then there’s always the person’s name. There are so many polite and kind alternatives that aren’t underhanded ways to be rude and make a point.

 

[marymary1975]

There are TWO different issues here really:

1. A parenting issue

gatheringslt issue

PARENTING: As a parent you may indeed discern that it is not prudent to tell your young children that a homosexual lifestyle is a mortal sin, then bring them to grandma’s to witness a kissing couple across the table. In that case it may be best to keep them home.

ADULT: As a single adult it is your choice whether or not to attend, however it would be rude to take a family holiday at someone else’s home and use that as an occasion to lecture another person on their sinfulness. If you do decide to attend and something is said or done that offends you, you can politely excuse yourself and leave the room quietly.

Yes yes to this ^^. And i agree with others who have said that kissing in the mouth at family gatherings is not polite and I am talking abouy any couple. If I were at a family gathering and any couple would start kissing mouth to mouth I would probably grab my kid and go. (Thankfully that doesn’t happen in any of my family gatherings but I was once at a friend’s gathering in which people started dancing inappropriately and I did leave)

 

[Ridgerunner]

You really think that attending a family dinner where gay couples are present endorses their relationship?

I hope for the sake of consistency that you keep cohabiting and invalidly married couples at a distance as well. Let’s face it, if you eat with them they will surely believe that they have your approval.

I am so glad that my family is far more generous and welcoming on the holidays.

I would not invite a relative’s “live in” of the opposite gender to a family dinner either.

I would not have a problem inviting a spouse even if I suspected their marriage was invalid. First of all, I wouldn’t know whether it was valid or not. Many times, priests who are far more familiar with canon law than I am, don’t know when a couple comes to them wanting to convert, whether their prior marriage is valid or not. Secondly, they undoubtedly believe it was valid or they wouldn’t have done it.

Since I do not know your family and since you know nothing about mine, neither can possibly know whose family is the more generous and the more welcoming.

But this is not a matter of being “generous” or “welcoming”. You, and perhaps your family, have no moral objection to overt, active homosexuality. I, and my family, do.
That’s the real issue here.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Even if you don’t feel comfortable with husband, there is always partner. It has long been the accepted compromise term. And straight, cohabiting couples can still be called boyfriend/girlfriend/etc. If you just can’t bring yourself to acknowledge the relationship at all, then there’s always the person’s name. There are so many polite and kind alternatives that aren’t underhanded ways to be rude and make a point.

Put on a cowboy hat stick out a hand and say"Howdy, Pardner!"

 

[EasterJoy]

How would I have corrected you? Politely. “Actually, he’s my boyfriend, we’re coming up on three years together”, or, “Actually, it’s fiance. He popped the question last April”. I don’t typically let people minimize my relationships while counting on the fact that there’s nothing I can say about it. If you kept at it, you and I would have stepped outside after dinner for a frank discussion. If you smugly replied “well, I hope your friends all the same” I would let it go until after dinner. Once everyone was back to mingling I would probably say something like “I’m so glad you and your buddy could make it” in a lighthearted, “joking” tone. And this is assuming that I handled it before my husband got the chance. If he spoke before I did he would just give you a dirty look and correct you with “You know BEL and I have been together for several years, please refer to her as my girlfriend/fiance”.

It isn’t about having your sex life recognized, and you know that. Otherwise, your husband would just be your friend. Describing someone’s serious partner as a friend is rude and belittling, and its meant to be.

I was referring to the situation where you were living as husband and wife without the benefit of marriage. If you didn’t like it that I would not refer to you as having some status a chaste couple does not have because you chose to live together, or if you insisted that I call your live-in your “boyfriend” or “lover” instead of “friend” when I was feeling a need to treat you the same as your brother who has also brought *his live-in boyfriend *to the same gathering, oh well. Too bad. You are also not getting the “benefit” of other adjectives that apply to your situation, so it might be wise to just call it even.

I do not take offense when people refer to my husband as my friend, so you’d strike out on that one. If you can’t let go of your pet labels in order to make things more comfortable for people you know you are offending by a lifestyle that flies in the face of your host’s (not to mention your own childhood) moral code, that is your issue. Tolerance goes both ways; don’t expect everyone else to go the whole distance to suit you.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is great advice, sorry I missed that. Yes, of course calling someone by their **name **would be the perfect alternative not sure why that didn’t occur to me. In a social situation I think I probably would have done so naturally, but here on my computer I didn’t think of it, go figure. Thank you and yes calling someone “friend” in a mean or spiteful way is not nice I would agree with that, it’s just that some of us are trying to find a way to live our faith and it’s getting harder.

I cannot acknowledge a man-man marriage because according to my faith I would be lying…however if I don’t in some social situations I am considered a bigot and full of hatred, I think this is why lots of people on this thread frankly would rather stay home then attend the Thanksgiving Dinner!

Particularly when it was in the first line of my post, to which you replied in Post 44:

Proper terms? What would that be? I say learn the friend’s name, and refer to him by that.

I do not know how you got the idea that I was suggesting the word “friend” be used in a mean or spiteful way. Please indicate the context from which you drew that conclusion. What I wrote was:

Your only option is to withhold approval. I do not mean withholding approval for them as persons. You ought to show them the same courtesy you would show anyone else. Be as kind and cheerful as if you had no idea they had any moral failings at all, because it is not for you to judge what is not thrust before your with a demand for judgment. If they allow you to ignore their immoral choices and let you pretend with them for a day that they are not lovers at all, then do it. (Post 33)

 

[lalindsay225]

With all due respect, I don’t see why some feel called upon to express disapproval of two alleged sinners who are dinner guests, just because their sins are somewhat easier to spot than those of others. I guarantee you that everyone at the table is a sinner, in one way or another. Shaming these two at the table would accomplish nothing positive. On the other hand, it would likely embarrass the other guests as well as the host. And it would only alienate the gay cousin, possibly slamming the door on any future return to the Church on his part.

This Thanksgiving, as I break bread with a large family that includes my gay nephew and his partner, I will chat with them about how things are going at college, as I pray quietly for their souls and, I hope, provide the best authentic Catholic example I can.

The Quakers have a saying. “Let your life speak.”

 

[EasterJoy]

It would also be a favor to Grandma if the other known failings of the family were graciously forgotten for the day. As long as someone does not show up intoxicated, their inappropriate drinking or drug use can be ignored. As long as someone is being kind, their bouts with a sharp tongue can be ignored. As long as someone is not bragging about how they save money by cheating or shading business dealings, their greed and love of deceit can be ignored. And so on…even if someone decides to bring a co-conspirator in sin to the dinner. Provided they check their immoral choices at the door, there is no need to confront them about it during a family dinner. Even if they* try* to bring up their flaunting of moral law as dinner conversation, the less confrontation, the better. There are other times for that.

 

[Joseph73]

With all due respect, I don’t see why some feel called upon to express disapproval of two alleged sinners who are dinner guests, just because their sins are somewhat easier to spot than those of others. I guarantee you that everyone at the table is a sinner, in one way or another. Shaming these two at the table would accomplish nothing positive. On the other hand, it would likely embarrass the other guests as well as the host. And it would only alienate the gay cousin, possibly slamming the door on any future return to the Church on his part.

I think you’re confusing shaming the sin with shaming the sinner. We are called upon to shoot down sin wherever we see it. If someone sitting at the Thanksgiving table has masturbated, we can’t very well shoot that down, can we? Because we can’t see it. But if he starts joking about how he masturbates and watches porn all the time, we can see the sin. Set it in your sights and shoot it down. It’s the same with homosexuality.

 

[Book_Worm]

Oh my! Is it time for our regularly scheduled homophobic thread already?

How lacking is it in Christian charity to assume that the cousin is bringing his partner to a holiday dinner in order to “flaunt” their relationship. When I invited my then DBF (and now DH) to my family’s Easter breakfast it was to introduce the people I love to each other and have them spend time together, not to “flaunt” him. Is it not possible that the cousin’s motivations are the same?

Is it tacitly approving of someone taking God’s name in vain if, at the Thanksgiving meal, someone cries out “OMG!” when an impending birth is announced and is not immediately chastised for it? Is it giving approval if someone announces that he’s moving his manufacturing facility abroad so he doesn’t have to conform to EPA laws that protect the safety of his workers and no one storms out of the room in high dudgeon?

Or are we only called to voice our disapproval of sexual sins?

How egotistical is it to think that our approval means anything to anyone else and that withholding it somehow carries any value?

Even the Pope has pointed out our obsession with matters of homosexuality. I have to agree with a PP that it must have something to do with our smug confidence that, as heterosexuals. that’s one sin we’ll never be tempted to commit. The customary response to a comment about a vacation would be questions and comments as to the things the vacationer saw and did, not an inability to think of anything except their rooming arrangements.

OP, if you are so upset by your cousin’s relationship, the kindnest thing for all concerned would be for you not to attend the dinner.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I’ve been the guest at the holiday gatherings of a lot of different families, many with whom I was not related and some I had never met before and not one person there was nuzzling anyone unless they were a tiny child. There are a lot of posts on threads about gay people that seem to suggest that anyone who is not straight is incapable of acting properly in public and instead will be constantly groping their partner. Why is it so difficult to see them as regular people instead of a bizarre stereotype.

I also can’t imagine how uncomfortable any of the other guests would feel if someone took that occasion to take a stand on something like this. If it’s your house, don’t invite them, but if it isn’t your home don’t disrespect the hosts and insult their guests. It won’t turn out well.

 

[estesbob]

This is quite a common occurence at many of my family gatherings and I can’t recall it ever being a problem.