How do I know if I'm born again?

[djrakowski]

If you have never had a conversion you have never been born again.
You don’t necessarily have to have a Damascus road experience.
But you will definitely know the difference from living in the flesh and living in the Spirit. That is the conversion. That is what it means to be born again.

Where in the Bible is the conversion experience of the kind you’ve mentioned described as having been ‘born again?’

 

[Teflon93]

The thief was not suffering for Christ. He was on the cross because of sin.

And he repented of it, which prompted Christ to tell him he would be in heaven that day.

So given that he is a broken sinner, repented to Christ, and wound up in heaven, shouldn’t you be singing his praises as a brother in Christ?

After all, there are not many folks we’re sure are in heaven!

 

[heisenburg]

The sacraments were created for us as means so that his Grace can be dispensed. However, God is not bound by those sacraments. God CHOSE to afford the thief that grace. Just like if God wanted to turn me into a featherless Chicken about to be put on stage in a Vancouver night club, he could

However, because those means of dispensing grace are available to us, we should take them…

Put another way… A joke once told by my priest as one explanation of why Baptism is important

A women is stuck on her roof during a flood. A rescue boat comes by and says “Hop on, we will take you to safety!” The women simply responds…
“No thanks, If God wants to save me, he will…”
Several hours go by and the water continues to rise. A second rescue boat comes by and says "Hop on, we will take you to safety. "
The women kindly refuses once again saying God will save her if he so chooses…
Finally, the water is now over her head and she is barely able to stay afloat. A third rescue boat sees her in distress and says “Please, hop in, we will take you to saftey.”
But the women refused, politely thanking the man, but saying God will save her if it is his will.
Once she drowns, she goes before the lord, and confesses she is confused why he didn’t save her. The Lord just shakes his head and says… “My Child, I sent you three boats…”

So too is it with baptism…
We come and say… The Church teaches that baptism is required and it saves.
To which we get… The lord does not need a church to save, he can cleanse me if it is his will
We say… The Bible Teaches Baptism now saves you…
To which we get… I don’t agree with your interpretation. I will simply trust in the lord…
We finally say… The Earliest Christian writers outside the bible ALL agree that Baptism is required…
To which we receive… I will trust in the lord, and not what some uninspired writer has to say

When you step before the lord, will you ask. “My lord, why didn’t you save me…” only to get… “I sent you three messengers…”

 

[Miserissima]

If you have never had a conversion you have never been born again.
You don’t necessarily have to have a Damascus road experience.
But you will definitely know the difference from living in the flesh and living in the Spirit. That is the conversion. That is what it means to be born again.

I beg your pardon?

Let me clarify the Catholic’s conversion experience. It’s not a one-time thing. It begins with baptism, and continues through a lifelong process of repentance.

1. Through baptism, original sin has been washed away. We have been converted to Spirit-filled beings.

Your expericence, being different from ours, didn’t mean that it was either true or right. In post 144, you said you didn’t receive this indwelling of the Holy Spirit at this time. In post 744 you give an account of your conversion experience.

You have often said that you had a poor foundation in understanding the Catholic Faith. By your own quotation, we know that children who are brought up in the Faith (how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus) in conjunction with Baptism are on the road to salvation.

This is using your own cited scripture, not anyone’s personal experience or opinion.

1. Being raised to recognize that although original sin has been washed away, there is still the propensity to sin – which is where, after the age of reason, we recognize that “all have fallen short” and must repent. Therefore, the conversion begun at Baptism is a lifelong process. This is where the daily struggle to become holy comes in. This is where we do penance and strive to examine our lives with a properly formed conscience.

I agree with you that there is never one without the other: baptism is never without repentance. We’re doing the same things, but with a fuller understanding of the Scriptures.

 

[Miserissima]

I beg your pardon?

Let me clarify the Catholic’s conversion experience. It’s not a one-time thing. It begins with baptism, and continues through a lifelong process of repentance.

1. Through baptism, original sin has been washed away. We have been converted to Spirit-filled beings.

Your expericence, being different from ours, didn’t mean that it was either true or right. In post 144, you said you didn’t receive this indwelling of the Holy Spirit at this time. In post 744 you give an account of your conversion experience.

You have often said that you had a poor foundation in understanding of the Catholic Faith as you grew up. By your own scripture quotes, we know that children who are brought up in the Faith (how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus) in conjunction with Baptism are on the road to salvation.

This is using your own cited scripture, not anyone’s personal experience or opinion.

1. Being raised to recognize that although original sin has been washed away, there is still the propensity to sin – which is where, after the age of reason, we recognize that “all have fallen short” and must repent. Therefore, the conversion begun at Baptism is a lifelong process. This is where the daily struggle to become holy comes in. This is where we do penance and strive to examine our lives with a properly formed conscience.

I agree with you that there is never one without the other: baptism is never without repentance. We’re doing the same things, but with a fuller understanding of the Scriptures.

 

[Church_Militant]

As I said, “True, no evidence either way.” Which is consistent with the catechism: 1252 The practice of infant Baptism is an immemorial tradition of the Church. There is explicit testimony to this practice from the second century on, and it is quite possible that, from the beginning of the apostolic preaching, when whole “households” received baptism, infants may also have been baptized.53

Michael

May? I’d say that the Martyrdom of Polycarp kinda removes all doubt.

CHAPTER 9 (Link)

9:1 But to Polycarp, as he entered the arena, there came a voice from heaven, saying, Be strong, and play the man, O Polycarp. And the speaker no man saw; but the voice those of our people who were present heard. And when he was brought in there was a great tumult, when men heard that Polycarp was apprehended.

9:2 Then, when he had been brought in, the proconsul asked him if he was Polycarp. And when he confessed, he would have persuaded him to deny, saying, Have respect unto thine age, and other things like these, as is their custom to say: Swear by the fortunes of Caesar; Repent; Say, Away with the Atheists. But Polycarp, when he had looked with a grave face at all the multitude of lawless heathen in the arena, having beckoned unto them with his hand, sighed, and looking up unto heaven, said, Away with the Atheists!

9:3 And when the proconsul pressed him, and said, Swear, and I will release thee, revile Christ; Polycarp said, Eighty and six years have I served him, and in nothing hath he wronged me; and how, then, can I blaspheme my King, who saved me?

 

[misslollipops]

Where in the Bible is the conversion experience of the kind you’ve mentioned described as having been ‘born again?’

No where

 

[misslollipops]

And he repented of it, which prompted Christ to tell him he would be in heaven that day.

So given that he is a broken sinner, repented to Christ, and wound up in heaven, shouldn’t you be singing his praises as a brother in Christ?

After all, there are not many folks we’re sure are in heaven!

Yes he is a brother in Christ, praise God!

 

[djrakowski]

No where

Again, your personal opinions are supposed to bind us, even though you’re a Bible-only Christian? I don’t understand - you’re judging your personal experience - genuine as it is, and most certainly a conversion toward God - as the gold standard of conversion and being born again, regardless of what scripture says?

 

[Gamera]

How about the thief on the cross Lk23:43?

The thief on the cross died BEFORE the New Covenant went into effect. Jesus hadn’t yet died! Baptism wasn’t required under the Old Covenant.

Had the theif died AFTER the New Covenant went in to effect, then we could discuss the idea of baptism by desire. But we never get that far with this example. Nobody beleives baptism was needed back under Old Covenant. Only after Jesus died and rose again did God commence the New Covenant, into which we are initiated by sacramental baptism.

 

[lak611]

Thanks all for the help.
Already used it on ‘Noah and his Ark’ thread

Here’s a Bible website I like. It is called e-Sword. It has many different translations available for free. It also has dictionaries and commentaries.

 

[lak611]

The thief on the cross died BEFORE the New Covenant went into effect. Jesus hadn’t yet died! Baptism wasn’t required under the Old Covenant.

Had the theif died AFTER the New Covenant went in to effect, then we could discuss the idea of baptism by desire. But we never get that far with this example. Nobody beleives baptism was needed back under Old Covenant. Only after Jesus died and rose again did God commence the New Covenant, into which we are initiated by sacramental baptism.

Actually, the two thieves died after Jesus. The soldiers had to break their legs, but not Jesus’ legs because He had already died. From the NASB:

Joh 19:31 Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Joh 19:32 So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him;
Joh 19:33 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.

 

[savedsinner]

How about the thief on the cross Lk23:43?

The bible doesn’t state whether the thief on the cross was baptized or not.
You are assuming that he wasn’t baptized.

 

[Gamera]

Actually, the two thieves died after Jesus. The soldiers had to break their legs, but not Jesus’ legs because He had already died. From the NASB:

Yes. But Jesus was still alive when the thief repented. Jesus was alive when He said, “Today you will be with me in paradise.”

 

[Philthy]

How about the thief on the cross Lk23:43?

Scripture is silent on whether he was baptized! Also, it is prior to Pentecost.

 

[lak611]

Yes. But Jesus was still alive when the thief repented. Jesus was alive when He said, “Today you will be with me in paradise.”

That is true.

 

[misslollipops]

Scripture is silent on whether he was baptized! Also, it is prior to Pentecost.

You know that if he was baptized before he repented it wouldn’t matter anyway.

 

[Randy_Carson]

You know that if he was baptized before he repented it wouldn’t matter anyway.

That is incorrect.

If he had been baptized prior to the day of Pentecost, then the thief would have received the same baptism that Jesus received - the baptism of John which many people had gone out to the Jordan to receive from the last of the OT prophets. Since Jesus himself valued John’s baptism, there must have been some value in it.

However, the thief’s words from his cross suggest that he would have desired baptism if there had been time for him to receive it. Therefore, his was what is called the “baptism of desire.”

Similarly, there were many catechumens in the early centuries who endured martyrdom before they were able to be baptized into the Church. By the shedding of their blood, the Church recognizes that they received the “baptism of blood.”

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Gamera]

Similarly, there were many catechumens in the early centuries who endured martyrdom before they were able to be baptized into the Church. By the shedding of their blood, the Church recognizes that they received the “baptism of blood.”

I wonder if any of our non-Catholic friends can quote any of those early Christian martyrs as having said that they, “accepted Jesus as their personal Savior.”

 

[rpp]

You know that if he was baptized before he repented it wouldn’t matter anyway.

Perhaps this is technically correct in this particular case, but I would not want to bet my soul on it. The essential part was that the thief repented yet was unable to be baptized.