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st_lucy
Guest
So what makes you the new judge to say that I wasn’t?
You don’t know ones heart and so you don’t know if they were or were not “born again”
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You don’t know ones heart and so you don’t know if they were or were not “born again”
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st_lucy
Guest
Again there is that old stubborn plank in your eye.
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Gamera
Guest
Excuse me. You asked a question and I was kind enough to answer it. I didn’t ask for your assesment of my life.
I don’t “think” I was born again at baptism, I know it because God’s word tells me so.
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estesbob
Guest
And you base this all on your personal intepreation of 1 verse in scripture?
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estesbob
Guest
And you base all this in what? So far it appears you have built quite a theology out of your *personal *interpreation of exactly 2 verses in Scripture.
BTW-In havent spoken in tongues since i quit drinking.
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RPConover
Guest
If you think you can tell the Holy Spirit where to go, and that He cannot or does not work through infant baptism, good luck! Complete blasphemy…
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Gamera
Guest
Part of the problem is the question. Had Mislollipops asked for our “testimonies” this thread would have been very different, and probably very uplifting. Unfortunately, she used the buzzwords “born again,” which means something very different to a Catholic than to some other Christians. Instead of recognizing the difference in lingo, she apparently assumes that anybody who answers “baptism” must not have a “conversion experience” or “personal testimony” to share.
So is that what you’re interested in, Mislollipops? If so, perhaps you shoud begin a thread asking something like, “How did you decide to follow Jesus?” or “Please share your testimony about how Jesus changed your life.” By fixating on the phrase “born again,” you’ll never get past the issue of terminology with Catholics.
We love Jesus very much. We’d love to discuss Him with you. But we aren’t going to change our vocabulary to match yours. I’m sure you understand.
So is that what you’re interested in, Mislollipops? If so, perhaps you shoud begin a thread asking something like, “How did you decide to follow Jesus?” or “Please share your testimony about how Jesus changed your life.” By fixating on the phrase “born again,” you’ll never get past the issue of terminology with Catholics.
We love Jesus very much. We’d love to discuss Him with you. But we aren’t going to change our vocabulary to match yours. I’m sure you understand.
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misslollipops
Guest
So you say you were born again at infant baptism.I note that Paul wasn’t born again (EG - filled with the Holy Spirit) on the road to Damascus, but at the house of Judas. (Acts 9:17-19.)
“17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.”
Anyway, I was born again (“of water and the Spirit”) when I was baptized in the Catholic Church as an infant. I turned from God and His Church for many years. While I had been “born again”, I was not “saved” (or in anything like a state of grace) for that time, as I had rejected the gift of God’s grace and salvation. I didn’t go to church; I didn’t act “christian”, and while something in me tended to try to “just be a good person” - I unconsciously viewed myself as the center of the universe.
After getting beaten down by the world for years, even after spending several years in Protestant “non-denonimational” churches, I revisited my doubts and questions about the Catholic Church, both those that had contributed to my abandoning it, and those that I had picked up from Protestant friends over the years. I finally returned to the Catholic Church after learning the true teachings of the Church, & after discovering why so many n-C arguments are flawed & illogical.
This question of “how can I know if I’m born again” sprouts from the “once saved, always saved” assumption, which DOES attempt to dictate the terms of God’s gift of salvation (I.E.-“You HAVE to guarantee that I’m going to heaven!”)
However, we don’t receive a “golden ticket to heaven” for having an emotional experience, or by getting baptized (at any time), or by answering an altar call, or by praying some prayer sincerely enough. (Why does that word remind me of “the great pumpkin”?)
Faith can be rejected, God can be disowned, & a believer can become WORSE than an unbeliever. (Can someone who is worse than an unbeliever expect to go to heaven?)
I thank God for his call that prompted me to turn back from the world and return home to the Catholic Church.
Chris
You had the Holy Spirit living in you and guiding you into all truth.
You were no longer born of flesh but born of the Spirit at your baptism as an infant.
THEN you fell into all kinds of fleshly sin.
So when you were in sin the Holy spirit left you?
Is that what you’re saying?
Then after you came to your senses you came back to the RCC and the HS came back also?
REad Hebrews 6:4-6 it is impossible.
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misslollipops
Guest
I am judging no one. Each should judge themselves.
That is the point of the thread.
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misslollipops
Guest
Where is the plank?
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misslollipops
Guest
All I said was good luck
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stbruno
Guest
thank you for that link to the article. We have been teaching that during our baptism prep classes but it was good to also have the early church fathers perspective as well.
thank you once again.
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st_lucy
Guest
I am referring to Luke 6:42
Or how canst thou say to thy brother: Brother, let me pull the mote out of thy eye, when thou thyself seest not the beam in thy own eye? Hypocrite, cast first the beam out of thy own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to take out the mote from thy brother’s eye.
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Gamera
Guest
I don’t need luck. I have Christ’s precious blood shed for my sins. I have one Mediator between God and man who died a brutal death so that I could receive eternal life. I have the holy Church which He founded which administers the sacraments through which Jesus imparts grace to me. I don’t need luck.
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misslollipops
Guest
Born again is a biblical term used in Jn3:3
I have no hang up with biblical terms.
I am really surprised that so many born again catholics have a problem with the term.
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estesbob
Guest
So thats it? All this is based on your personal interpretation of one verse in Scripture?
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misslollipops
Guest
I know the reference. I am asking you what plank do you see in my eye. Please point out the error of my ways.
M
misslollipops
Guest
You do need the Holy Spirit to lead you to all thruth.
You get the Holy Spirit when you are born again.
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Gamera
Guest
I have no problem with using the term PROPERLY — it means baptism.
“Jesus answered him, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.’ Nicodemus said to him, ‘How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?’ Jesus answered, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is BORN OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’” John 3:3-5.
That’s baptism. I have no problem when people use the term “born again” to mean what the Bible means: baptism. I do have a problem with people misusing the term to mean something other than baptism, yes.
So again, if you’d like to discuss our conversion experiences or our walks with Jesus, that’s wonderful — but we won’t stop using the term “born again” to mean baptism.
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st_lucy
Guest
I am asking you to please take the plank out of your eye before you try removing mine.
I whole heartily know that I am a sinner and I do not dare to accuse another fellow Christian of not having been saved. So I ask that you who is also a sinner please do not try to push my Lord off of His thrown so that you may start casting your stone and who ever you feel is unfit.
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