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Gamera
Guest
Yes, I did receive the Holy Spirit when I was born again at baptism. That’s correct.
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st_lucy
Guest
Again please stop assuming who has and has not received the Holy Spirit. That is not for you to judge.
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misslollipops
Guest
It is not one verse.Jn3:3, 3:5
Romans 5,6,7,8
Acts 2
Pauls conversion
Jesus offers living water( living water is the Holy Spirit)
I could go on and on.
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misslollipops
Guest
I am not casting a stone or calling anyone unfit.
I am provoking the question ‘are you born again with the Spirit’
Every catholic says ‘I was born again when I was baptized as an infant!’
Well I was baptized as an infant also.
And I had no Holy Spirit dwelling in me.
I was a filthy sinner filled with all kinds of lusts of the flesh.
Now the works of the flesh are these: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, hatred,jealousies, wrath, envy, murder, sorcery, heresies, revelries, drunkeness, selfish ambitions
And those who practice these things WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Gal 5:19-21
There is no way the Holy Spirit was living in me while I was living in my flesh.
So the infant baptism born again ceremony didn’t work for me I guess.
And anyone who practices these fleshly things probably doesn’t have the Holy Spirit either.
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st_lucy
Guest
Well, I am sorry you felt that way. Every practicing catholic believes all what you said, but we also believe that Jesus asked us to be baptised with water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
We have stated to you many times we feel the Holy Spirit working in our lives everyday. We also said that we know we are sinners and pray daily for our forgiveness.
So, I guess with our own words we have answered your question time and again but yet you feel that it is your own personal mission to point out our wrongs. To which I say please stop judging what you have no idea of.
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misslollipops
Guest
Could you explain when I judged you or anyone else?
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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
So, are you saying you were not clothed in Christ until you were ‘born again’?
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Gamera
Guest
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.
We believe that a baptized person can later sin. Perhaps you believe in the idea of “once saved, always saved,” which Catholics reject. We believe that a person can enter a state of God’s grace (fellowship), then lose that grace by sinning, then regain grace when we repent and seek forgiveness. So to a Catholic, being “born again” doesn’t mean we’ll never sin again. Being “born again” is just that, a beginning, a second birth, the commencement of a new spiritual life, which no doubt will have its ups and downs. None of us thinks that baptism guarantees us a place in heaven. To enter heaven, we need to be in a state of grace when we die, not just at some previous time such as baptism.
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misslollipops
Guest
I don’t know what clothed in Christ means.
I know when I became born again there was a change of life and the Holy Spirit did an immediate miracle in my life
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thomasf
Guest
This is an interesting quote to me. I have always believed in Jesus Christ, I have always believed as far as I remember that Jesus is God and came for us. And it puzzles me that protestants seem to think that this realization is some kind of great life make over or something. Do protestants not raise their children to believe in Christ? Do they not teach them of Jesus so that one day they can figure it out and have a born again conversion experience? What if a protestant raised their child from day 1 to believe in Jesus and they never had a conversion or born again experience? Are they not born again? Are they not saved?
Because by the op’s definition, being born again is a change from being a non-believing sinner to a believing non-sinner. What if you were a believer from the start, and lived a christian life from the start? Then would you have no hope of being born again? Seems like to me someone who was raised from the start to be a good christian that believed in Christ has no hope of salvation.
And that absurd line of thinking is proof that being born again is more than a conversion experience or a change of heart from a siiner to someone who ‘accepts’ Jesus. Baptism is the true route to being born again and salvation. Not some experience or change of heart.
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misslollipops
Guest
Hebrews 6:4-6 it is impossible for someone who has partaken in the Holy Spirit, if they fall away, to renew them to repentance. Read it for yourself.,
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Gamera
Guest
It’s from Galatians. “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ.” Gal 3:27.
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Gamera
Guest
Hebrews Chapter 6 does not support OSAS. The correct meaning of these very verses is being discussed right now in this thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=184184
And for the record, I have read it for myself, many times. As I previously mentioned, my wife and I read one chapter of the Bible together every night. Tonight we read Leviticus 22. I have read the Bible cover-to-cover, and nowhere does it support the tradition of “once saved, always saved.”
In any event, my point was that you are mistaken if you think Catholics just sit back and say, “I was baptized and therefore I am sure to go to heaven.” We don’t think that.
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mikee
Guest
St. Paul is speaking hyperbolically there. It’s a mode of expression often used in the bible where the inspired author uses exaggerated terms to make a point. Just take this example from Mt 17:20:
“For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.”
By the words “nothing will be impossible”, it’s obviously not meant to mean that the apostles become omnipotent with the power to do absolutely anything [like the ability to create something out of nothing, which only God can do], but we get the gist of what’s meant there, regardless. The same thing applies with Hebrews 6:4-6. It doesn’t mean an absolute impossibility, given that the Church in the earliest times has always welcomed back those who have strayed from her.
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coleraine
Guest
“born again” doesnt really apply to a one time thing, because salvation isnt a one time thing, you dont get saved once and for all, its a series of decisions all through your life. it most likely would be aplied to being baptised, if anything. dont fret, if youve been baptised and your not in mortal sin, your fine.
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misslollipops
Guest
If you believe you were always a good christian read gal5:19-21.
Ever do any of those things? Those are sins of the flesh
I know as a catholic I did most of them.
Rom 3:23 says ALL have sinned.
There is none righteous, no not one Rom3:9-18
We All need a savior
We all need to put to death our flesh.Rom8:13
We all need to be born of the Spirit Jn3:5
It doesn’t matter how you were brought up or how good you were.
No one is good but One, that is God. Matt19:17
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Gamera
Guest
Romans 3:23 does not mean that literally every human being on earth has sinned. Romans Chapter 3 says that all, meaning all peoples, both Jew and gentile, have sinned.
The Bible says that NOT every person has committed a personal sin. Consider Zechariah and Elizabeth (John the baptists’ parents). “And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blamelessly,” Luke 1:6. Sure, they still needed a savior because of original sin, but they did not commit any personal sins.
Babies cannot commit personal sins. Severely mentally challenged people cannot commit personal sins. Yes, we all inherit original sin, and we all need Jesus as savior. But it is possible for a human being to live without committing a personal sin.
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ChrisWRIT
Guest
I notice that in the great commission, Jesus did not say: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, getting them to accept me into their hearts as their personal Lord and Savior.”
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Jesus’ description of being born again doesn’t seem to rhyme with *“no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he starts speaking in tongues.” *
I agree entirely with Hebrews 6:4-6. I just don’t agree with your personal and fallible interpretation of it.
You seem to be assuming that falling and turning from faith in God means the Holy Spirit leaves you.
I’m puzzled; does the Bible say that somewhere?
Additionally, it sounds as if you believe that being “born again” makes one perfect and immune to all sin - is that correct?
Chris
The fellow who wrote John 3:3, also wrote 3:5, which says:
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Jesus’ description of being born again doesn’t seem to rhyme with *“no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he starts speaking in tongues.” *
I’m sorry if I was unclear. No, that is not what I’m saying.
I agree entirely with Hebrews 6:4-6. I just don’t agree with your personal and fallible interpretation of it.
You seem to be assuming that falling and turning from faith in God means the Holy Spirit leaves you.
I’m puzzled; does the Bible say that somewhere?
Additionally, it sounds as if you believe that being “born again” makes one perfect and immune to all sin - is that correct?
Chris
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misslollipops
Guest
How about accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?“born again” doesnt really apply to a one time thing, because salvation isnt a one time thing, you dont get saved once and for all, its a series of decisions all through your life. it most likely would be aplied to being baptised, if anything. dont fret, if youve been baptised and your not in mortal sin, your fine.
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Gamera
Guest
What Bible verse says to “accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?” That phrase isn’t in my Bible.
Certainly Jesus Christ IS my Lord and Savior. But I find no verse that uses the pop culture expression “accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.”
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