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Prayer_Warrior
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You’ve made your theology clear. However, you are not answering my question. I asked you first what it means to be “clothed in Christ”. Here is your response:
To which I asked if you could do any of these things by yourself, without the Holy Spirit. You did not answer my question. Can you “put on the new self” and “make no provision for the flesh” without the Holy Spirit? Yes or No.
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lak611
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It is really uncharitable of you to demand that we type out entire articles because you do not wish to take the effort to click on a link.
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Prayer_Warrior
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Why would an infant need to repent? They haven’t committed a sin. They only have the stain of original sin which is washed away by baptism.
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misslollipops
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No. I thought I asnwered you in the first sentence.
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Mannyfit75
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The parents speaks in behalf of the infant since infant are not in an age to know right and wrong. It’s like in the Old Testament when a male child is being circumcise after 7 weeks. Baptism replace circumcision in the New Covenent established by Jesus Christ.
Furthermore, Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as “the circumcision of Christ” and “the circumcision made without hands.” Of course, usually only infants were circumcised under the Old Law; circumcision of adults was rare, since there were few converts to Judaism. If Paul meant to exclude infants, he would not have chosen circumcision as a parallel for baptism.
This comparison between who could receive baptism and circumcision is an appropriate one. In the Old Testament, if a man wanted to become a Jew, he had to believe in the God of Israel and be circumcised. In the New Testament, if one wants to become a Christian, one must believe in God and Jesus and be baptized. In the Old Testament, those born into Jewish households could be circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith in which they would be raised. Thus in the New Testament, those born in Christian households can be baptized in anticipation of the Christian faith in which they will be raised. The pattern is the same: If one is an adult, one must have faith before receiving the rite of membership; if one is a child too young to have faith, one may be given the rite of membership in the knowledge that one will be raised in the faith. This is the basis of Paul’s reference to baptism as “the circumcision of Christ”—that is, the Christian equivalent of circumcision.
Infant baptism is only the beginning in a child life. Once he reaches the age of reason. He is given the sacrament of Confirmation.
The Catechism states the following confirmation.
1293 In treating the rite of Confirmation, it is fitting to consider the sign of anointing and what it signifies and imprints: a spiritual seal.
Anointing, in Biblical and other ancient symbolism, is rich in meaning: oil is a sign of abundance and joy;103 it cleanses (anointing before and after a bath) and limbers (the anointing of athletes and wrestlers); oil is a sign of healing, since it is soothing to bruises and wounds;104 and it makes radiant with beauty, health, and strength.
1294 Anointing with oil has all these meanings in the sacramental life. The pre-baptismal anointing with the oil of catechumens signifies cleansing and strengthening; the anointing of the sick expresses healing and comfort. The post-baptismal anointing with sacred chrism in Confirmation and ordination is the sign of consecration. By Confirmation Christians, that is, those who are anointed, share more completely in the mission of Jesus Christ and the fullness of the Holy Spirit with which he is filled, so that their lives may give off "the aroma of Christ."105
Of course there are two tradition of annointing. In the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches, baptism, confirmation, and holy communion is given to the infant. The infant is baptized, annointed with chrismation, and received the Blood of Christ in small doses.
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misslollipops
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Jesus was offered at the temple as an infant but the Holy Spirit didn’t descend on Him till He was an adult and was baptized. Do you agree?
The point is we are not born again by the infant baptism.
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Mannyfit75
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Jesus as in infant did not establish his Kingdom yet. Baptism didn’t came about until John the Baptist practiced. His was merely of a percursor of what Jesus and His Apostles were going to do.
Jesus himself didn’t need to be baptized. John even said, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” But Jesus answered him, Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness."
Jesus who is without sin consented so all who were present would know that He is the Son of God. The heaven open and the Holy Spirit descend upon Jesus like a dove, and a voice in heaven said, “This is My Beloved Son, with Whom I am well pleased.”
We are. We are born of water and spirit. If you have taken time to read the article which many of us pointed out to you. I even posted it because you didn’t feel the need to click the link.
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lak611
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This is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Jesus did not have any need for baptism at all, since He is Divine. His baptism was a sign to His disciples of His Divinity at the beginning of His public ministry.
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misslollipops
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Why did Jesus get baptized as an adult and why did the Spirit descend on Him as an adult?
Why couldn’t the eunuch be baptized till he believed acts8:36-38
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misslollipops
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I responded to your post and asked you a question see post #240
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Mannyfit75
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I already responded to yours on # 240 about infant baptism.
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Mannyfit75
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Jesus himself didn’t need to be baptized. John even said, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” But Jesus answered him, Let it be so now, for thus it is** fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness**."
Jesus who is without sin consented** so all who were present **would know that He is the Son of God. The heaven open and the Holy Spirit descend upon Jesus like a dove, and a voice in heaven said, “This is My Beloved Son, with Whom I am well pleased.”
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lak611
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Jesus is God. He is the Second Person of the Trinity. Just as He and the Father are One, He is the Holy Spirit are One. God is one God in Three Persons. Jesus has always been connected to the Father and the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Are you now denying the Trinity?
Adults (anyone over the age of reason) cannot be baptised into the Catholic Church until they first believe. That is why we have RCIA.
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misslollipops
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deanarrca
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Code:
Hi, I have brought this up before on other threads, but by this logic my son could Never be born again in this manner. Everyone here talks of infants and it assumes infants will grow up to hear the gospel. My son was born blind and mentally handicapped with an IQ of about 40. He will always be a child. He will not have Misslollipops concept of a born again experience. Shall he be excluded from God's plan? My son is now 20 years old and was never baptized in the church we were attending because they taught the same as above the "believers only baptism". He will be baptised/ born again shortly in the Catholic church. :-) I have always had a problem with this whole age of reason or accountability business. I don't believe it is scriptural. Suffer not the little children to come unto me.
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davidv
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lak611
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Jesus welcomes your son in the Catholic Church. I welcome you and your family too! God bless you.Hi, I have brought this up before on other threads, but by this logic my son could Never be born again in this manner. Everyone here talks of infants and it assumes infants will grow up to hear the gospel. My son was born blind and mentally handicapped with an IQ of about 40. He will always be a child. He will not have Misslollipops concept of a born again experience. Shall he be excluded from God’s plan? My son is now 20 years old and was never baptized in the church we were attending because they taught the same as above the “believers only baptism”. He will be baptised/ born again shortly in the Catholic church.I have always had a problem with this whole age of reason or accountability business. I don’t believe it is scriptural. Suffer not the little children to come unto me.
Just my humble opinion
:hug1:
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misslollipops
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If you don’t mind. I will not be answering your posts directed to me. I find them offensive.
I told you this once on another thread.
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lak611
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There is nothing offensive in what I said. From what you posted, it could be inferred that Jesus needed to receive the Holy Spirit at His baptism. This is not the case, because He has always been Divine.
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