How do I know if I'm born again?

[Jestocost]

I have a question for all you “Damascus moment” types out there. Suppose that there was someone who was baptised as an infant. This person loved god deeply and strove their entire life to do His will. While he did sin on occasion as we all do, he never fell into a life of debauchery or vice and was always striving for God’s perfection. I believe there are many saints who match this description.

What would your advice be for this person? By what you are saying, their only hope would be to run out and start sinning big time so that they can have a big “born again” moment. Is a very sinful period of your life necessary to salvation?

 

[heisenburg]

I love how ephesians gets twisted so well…

We are saved by grace through faith, apart from works…

Looking at the sentance criticly, what does it say…

What saves us…
Grace… Ok, so, no problem here with catholic theology, we always have taught we are saved by Grace Alone…

Can our works affect that Grace? (apart from works)
Nope… Something the Catholic Church has also, Always taught…

DO we have to have faith? (through faith)
Absolutly, show me one place in the CCC, or any church document that says we do not need to have faith.

Often people confuse Grace alone with Faith alone. This verse is a key example… It says we are saved by the grace of god, there is nothing we can do to earn that grace, all we have to do is have faith in him.

The key thing here is how you respond to that grace… if you are not obedient, we seperate our selves from God…

Case in point… NT mentions that if we blaspheme the HS, then we are seperated from Christ and there is no sacrifice left.

So, what is Blaspheming the lord…

When This was written, Jews of the Day would have understood…

Per the OT, Blaspheming the HS means knowingly being disobedient.

Therefore, we can be given the Grace, but if we are knowingly being disobedient, then we blaspheme the lord, and seperate ourselfs from our enternal reward.

Thanks be to God that he also gave us the redeaming properties of Jesus Christ. Once we ask for forgiveness of those sins that seperated us, we are restored to glory.

Its all right there in the bible…

In Christ

 

[captaincoog]

If you believe you were always a good christian read gal5:19-21.
Ever do any of those things? Those are sins of the flesh
**I know as a catholic I did most of them.**Rom 3:23 says ALL have sinned.
There is none righteous, no not one Rom3:9-18
We All need a savior
We all need to put to death our flesh.Rom8:13
We all need to be born of the Spirit Jn3:5
It doesn’t matter how you were brought up or how good you were.
No one is good but One, that is God. Matt19:17

Dear Miss Lollipops, I have been watching this thread for a while now. I had a feeling there was something familiar about the way you put your points across. Then I saw the post I have quoted. I was waiting for this interesting piece of information to come to the surface.

You are an ex-Catholic.

All the list of sins that you say you did while a Catholic are the falut of just one person - you. C’mon, be honest now. You are angry at the Church for keeping the true Gospel from you for all those years, and now even your own sins are somehow the Church’s evil-doing? It is not the Church’s fault that you sin. I used this exact line on my brother years ago while I was outside of the Church in Evangelicalism, blaming the Church for my sins, and he rebuked me and said the same thing - that it is not any fault of the Church that you sin. That is entirely your fault. If you followed all the Catholic Church’s teachings you would NEVER sin. So don’t blame the Church for your personal failures and sins. Lots of ex-Catholics do that. I was one of them once.

Whether or not we agree on the definition of a Saint, (I am sure we would not, but I know that you know what the Church means by Saint), if you look at their *exemplary *lives and wonder how the gave all for Christ, absolutely pouring out their lives with the love of Christ overflowing in them, they all had one thing in common: They were obedient to the teachings of the Catholic Church in all things concerning faith and morals. As Catholics, we are absolutely certain of their place in Heaven. They lived their lives by the grace of God, but our sins are all our own stupid fault, every time.
Were these Saints born again in your definition? If so, they were also faithful Catholics, believing everything the Church believes and teaches, at least materially.
If they were not born again, where on earth did they get the power to live lives of utter self denial, generosity, love, patience, kindness, self control, goodness etc?

You should stick around here for a while. Maybe visit other Catholic sites, read some Catholic aploogetics, and give the whole thing more thought.

Those nice, sincere people you spend Sunday mornings with will not help you get to Heaven. Through His Passion, Death and Resurrection, Our Lord made salvation possible for all humanity, but he leaves it up to us as to whether we want to seek His good grace to believe and live as He commanded. He has not guaranteed salvation to evferyone, although he redeemed the whole human race. To suggest otherwise is to head towards universalism. This is why He established the Catholic Church in 33AD - to give souls to the opportunity to accept His generous offer of eternal life with his necessary assistance. His grace comes to us via the seven Sacraments, which are defined as outward signs instuted by Christ to give grace. The sacraments are both outward and inward, because we are outward and inward beings. He ministers to our whole selves as human persons in body and spirit. The outwardness of the sacraments is how we know for certain that we have availed ourselves of the inward grace that He has made available through each one. Otherwise, it would just be vague feelings that can vary from person to person, and we would have to rely on person’s testimony to know whether they were part of the “true church” or not. But God is much smarter than we are, and making us corporate beings with five senses, He knew that only through outward sacraments could he sustainably maintain a real relationship with an entire people over the generations. Subjective inner feelings and personal testimonies are great, but on their own, they cannot foster a unity in a people that God sees as necessary to keep the New Covenant with His people, because each person has a different subjective experience. The unchanging seven sacraments on the other hand have kept the unity of Faith for 2000 years.
So Baptism is the doorway to the other six sacraments. It restores a right relationship that was lost by Adam’ sin. Only then is it possible to enter a relationship with God.

 

[misslollipops]

I have a question for all you “Damascus moment” types out there. Suppose that there was someone who was baptised as an infant. This person loved god deeply and strove their entire life to do His will. While he did sin on occasion as we all do, he never fell into a life of debauchery or vice and was always striving for God’s perfection. I believe there are many saints who match this description.

What would your advice be for this person? By what you are saying, their only hope would be to run out and start sinning big time so that they can have a big “born again” moment. Is a very sinful period of your life necessary to salvation?

We are all exceedingly sinful in God’s eyes.
Our good works are like filthy rags.
If you want to be born again try turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer.
Make your body a living sacrifice.
Invite the Holy Spirit to come into your life.
You must do this in earnest, with all your heart.
Then see what happens.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

We are all exceedingly sinful in God’s eyes.
Our good works are like filthy rags.
If you want to be born again try turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer.
Make your body a living sacrifice.
Invite the Holy Spirit to come into your life.
You must do this in earnest, with all your heart.
Then see what happens.

So you’re claiming to know better than Jesus what one must do to be born again? Cause that’s not what Jesus says at all.

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (D-R)

 

[Mannyfit75]

We are all exceedingly sinful in God’s eyes.

That is why we are called to Repentance.

Our good works are like filthy rags.

Good works by itself cannot do anything. The grace of God moves us in faith, and our faith help us to do the good deeds. Just as James said in his letters, “Works without faith is dead.”

If you want to be born again try turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer.

Prayer helps oneself to live a holier life and strengthen one to fight temptation.

Make your body a living sacrifice.
Invite the Holy Spirit to come into your life.
You must do this in earnest, with all your heart.
Then see what happens.

Most of us Catholics who practice their faith do.

 

[st_lucy]

We are all exceedingly sinful in God’s eyes.
Our good works are like filthy rags.
If you want to be born again try turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer.
Make your body a living sacrifice.
Invite the Holy Spirit to come into your life.
You must do this in earnest, with all your heart.
Then see what happens.

Why do you assume that a good Catholic is not doing these things? Was it because you didn’t do them? If that is the case than you weren’t a good Catholic.

You cann’t base a whole on a fraction. It is rather simple.

 

[Gamera]

We are all exceedingly sinful in God’s eyes.
Our good works are like filthy rags.
If you want to be born again try turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer.
Make your body a living sacrifice.
Invite the Holy Spirit to come into your life.
You must do this in earnest, with all your heart.
Then see what happens.

Other than the first line (the Calvinist error of total depravity) and the second (an out-of-context reference to Isaiah 64:6, which is not about every single person), Catholics agree with all the rest of what you’ve said here. We just don’t agree that that’s what constitutes being “born again.” Those are things we do after we are born again at baptism.

I’m not sure why you think this is somehow different than Catholicism. Do you think that Catholics don’t do these things?

 

[Philthy]

Of course we all must be baptized.
But first hearing Rom10:17
Then faith Eph2:8
Then repentence
Then baptism.
Think of Philip and the eunuch acts8:36-37
He couldn’t be baptized till he believed.

What you are pointing out is valid for adults and those who possess the capability of belief. The Catholic Church does not teach that adults should be baptized absent faith in Christ, so your comments are a little perplexing. I can only assume that you are attempting to address the infant baptism issue. In my opinion what you are doing is taking the criterion for baptism in the case of a normal adult and imposing it on all individuals - infants, small children, the mentally retarded, etc. I dont think that is truly biblical, logical or historical.
I believe that such a rigid, antagonistic approach to Baptism comes from the “once saved always saved” mentality. Why? Because if you begin with that mentality and project it into the question of whether Baptism “saves” you, then you end up with the obvious contradiction that all those who have fallen from the faith as adults but who were baptized as infants would have to be saved since “once saved always saved” is assumed. Rather than reject the faulty of OSAS, the OSAS adherent ends up rejecting the reality that Baptism saves you, just as Peter said.
The logical, scriptural and observable reality is, however, that simply because someone was “saved” at one point in their life, it does not mean that they remain saved forever. They can reject their salvation through sin.
God remains faithful and provides us with the Grace to live our life in Christ and take up our cross and follow him, but He does not force it upon us and negate our free will - to do so would eliminate the possibility of love, which is the greatest of the commands.

On a totally different note, the baptism of the eunich is remarkable in that it demonstrates the totally false notion of baptism having anything to do with a public display of faith. They were alone when the eunich queries, “What then is to prevent my being baptized?” That would have been the time for Philip to say, “we need a crowd for you to display your faith to” No such statement is forthcoming, and Philip is whisked away immediately afterward. Not a single witness to the eunichs baptism remained.

 

[krissy343]

Hi! I’m a late comer to this thread and haven’t read the whole thing yet but I feel the need to tell the story of THE MOST devout Roman Catholic woman I have ever met, my great aunt. She was baptized as a child and since she was small her main goal in life was to serve the Lord. She tells stories about how when she was in grade school she could not wait to get out of class so she could go to Church and praise God. She would spend countless hours daily praying to our Lord and asking for intercession from the Saints. To this day her main goal in life is to serve the Lord. Even through the death of her daughter from cancer, 2 of her other daughters having cancer, her husband having several open heart surgeries, her faith is unwavering. If anything, it has brought her closer to God. I recall my mother telling me that my aunt once told her that she CAN’T WAIT to die so she can finally be in Heaven with our Lord. According to the OP

Every Christian who is truly born again should have a recollection of the old person and the new person.

What about someone who’s faith has been there since early childhood such as my aunt? Are you saying that since she was never a “lost sheep” and THEN accepted Christ in her life she is not truly “saved”? Maybe I interpreted your post wrong, if so, please let me know.

 

[krissy343]

We are all exceedingly sinful in God’s eyes…

Notice she said ALL According to most Protestants on this board, once you are truly “saved” God doesn’t PERMIT you to sin. And if you do, you weren’t really “saved” in the first place… hmmm

Our good works are like filthy rags…

So what you’re saying is, we might as well NEVER do good works because God sees them as filthy rags? So, say I see someone on the side of the road with a flat tire, I shouldn’t stop to help them, instead I should just return home and read my bible or go out and preach God’s word? I guess it would probably be ok to help him/her if while I was doing it I was preaching the Word of God. But the only thing God is going to notice is that I was preaching His Word not the fact that I helped someone in need.

 

[estesbob]

If you want to be born again try turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer.
Make your body a living sacrifice.
Invite the Holy Spirit to come into your life.
You must do this in earnest, with all your heart.
Then see what happens.

I never knew a time I didnt know the above. Why did it take so long for you to figuren it out?

 

[Linnyo]

I never knew a time I didnt know the above. Why did it take so long for you to figuren it out?

Me too! Most Catholics I know already try to do this all the time. They don’t just do it when they become Christian.

 

[estesbob]

Me too! Most Catholics I know already try to do this all the time. They don’t just do it when they become Christian.

As I said at the beginning fo this thread "I was born right: in the fist place. My parents assured me of my Faith. i didnt need an ovrwrought emotional response to obtain something I had all along.

 

[st_lucy]

As I said at the beginning fo this thread "I was born right: in the fist place. My parents assured me of my Faith. i didnt need an ovrwrought emotional response to obtain something I had all along.

The funny thing is I would think that most Protestants who had devote faithful parents would have also had this too from the beginning. I would find it rather odd if having grown up in a devote faithful Christian family, at the age of 18 you would find Christ for the first time and than and only than strive to live a Christ like life.

 

[Randy_Carson]

We are all exceedingly sinful in God’s eyes.
Our good works are like filthy rags.
If you want to be born again try turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer.
Make your body a living sacrifice.
Invite the Holy Spirit to come into your life.
You must do this in earnest, with all your heart.
Then see what happens.

Thank you for this.

Do you believe that Catholics do not do this for some reason?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Thank you for this.

Do you believe that Catholics do not do this for some reason?

From what I can tell, and she’s welcome to correct me here, she thinks because she didn’t do those things (turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer, make your body a living sacrifice, invite the Holy Spirit to come into your life… in earnest, with all your heart) while she was attending a Catholic Church that it stands to reason that no Catholic does.

 

[Randy_Carson]

We are all exceedingly sinful in God’s eyes.
Our good works are like filthy rags.

And yet, we must do them.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

If you want to be born again try turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer.

Is there a scripture verse which tells me this is how to be born again?

What I see is John 3:5 where Jesus clarifies “born again” as follows:

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

It seems that the Spirit is frequently associated with water in the scriptures. For example:

Ezekiel 36:24-27
24 " 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Make your body a living sacrifice.

Amen. A great exhortation from Romans 12:1. But it doesn’t really pertain to being “born again”.

Invite the Holy Spirit to come into your life.
You must do this in earnest, with all your heart.
Then see what happens.

Again, amen.

The Spirit’s role in baptism and confirmation has been a part of the Church’s teaching for nearly two thousand years.

 

[Leopard]

From what I can tell, and she’s welcome to correct me here, she thinks because she didn’t do those things (turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer, make your body a living sacrifice, invite the Holy Spirit to come into your life… in earnest, with all your heart) while she was attending a Catholic Church that it stands to reason that no Catholic does.

Last week I went to the movies with my wife and fell asleep during the show. Applying this same reasoning, I suppose I should conclude that since I didn’t stay awake for the whole show, nobody else did either.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Why did Jesus get baptized as an adult and why did the Spirit descend on Him as an adult?

Because He didn’t begin His public ministry until that time, and it was during this period of his life that he did many things to establish the pattern that we, the members of his church, must follow.

However, perhaps you have forgotten that John the Baptist was apparently filled with the Holy Spirit in his mother’s womb? (cf. Luke 1:39-44)

Why couldn’t the eunuch be baptized till he believed acts8:36-38

Are you suggesting that adults should be baptized BEFORE they know and accept the gospel? It is right that people hear and accept the good news AND be baptized into Christ in order to be saved or “born again” as you like to put it.

Hope this helps. :tiphat: