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juliamajor
Guest
It’s not quantity but quality that counts. If you you read with understanding wisdom and with eyes of your heart open you can gain a lot. And as far as people being nasty maybe you should look in the mirror before you accuse anybody of what you yourself are doing . And making yourself martyr because you say folks are picking is really hysterical.Not only has your smarmy remarks irritated me but it also makes me question your motivation. What is your motivation?To feel superior? It certainly not to learn from or interact with other Christians oh , I forgot Catholics aren’t Christians! So save your pieties and rhetoric your “canned” answers - your vapid
theology and save them for somebody else. You have no buyers here
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jabelltulsa
Guest
Why are you being judgmental? That is a beautiful thing … a husband and wife studying Sacred Scripture together. Who are you to judge how much is enough?
If you didn’t mean to be rude, why would you say anything?
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misslollipops
Guest
Now that was pretty nasty!It’s not quantity but quality that counts. If you you read with understanding wisdom and with eyes of your heart open you can gain a lot. And as far as people being nasty maybe you should look in the mirror before you accuse anybody of what you yourself are doing . And making yourself martyr because you say folks are picking is really hysterical.Not only has your smarmy remarks irritated me but it also makes me question your motivation. What is your motivation?To feel superior? It certainly not to learn from or interact with other Christians oh , I forgot Catholics aren’t Christians! So save your pieties and rhetoric your “canned” answers - your vapid
theology and save them for somebody else. You have no buyers here
Is that charitable talk?
BTW I never said catholics weren’t Christians
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Michael_Francis
Guest
Temporarily closed pending clean up.
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LSK
Guest
Catholics believe what you have written here - we believe that by the Sacrament of Baptism we are born again…just as it states in the Bible when Jesus was explaining this to Nicodemus. The Sacrament of Baptism removes the stain of original sin, a wound we inherited from the fall of our first parents, Adam and Eve.
Salvation is something all Christians hope to achieve. It is never guaranteed. For as Christ stated, not all who say 'Lord Lord" will enter into eternal glory. And as St. Paul stated so eloquently, we must perservere to the end, ‘run the race’ so to speak. It is important to remember that even he spoke of his sinful nature when he described his frustration with what he wants to do and what he does.
Catholics recognize that because of our fallen nature, or concupiscence, we will sin again during our lifetimes. That is why Christ, in establishing His Church, gave the power to ‘bind and loose’ to the Apostles, a power that is passed down to our priests through the Sacrament of Holy Orders.
One very important aspect of achieving eternal life is to eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus Christ. Anyone who fails to do so runs the risk of not achieving eternal salvation.
All this is stated quite clearly in Holy Scripture.
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djrakowski
Guest
Can you be saved without being born again? And, can you be born again and yet somehow miss salvation?
Don’t think for a second that you’re teaching Catholics anything new. We believe (and scripture confirms) that a person is born again through baptism (we needn’t go over the rather obvious scriptures on this again), and that we’re saved because we love God and obey His word (all of it - not just that which is committed to writing in sacred scripture).
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Gamera
Guest
Not everything I post is posted “to you.” Look at the forum headings and you’ll find that at any given time, dozens of people are reading. Maybe they haven’t read my other posts in other threads. I’d like to communicate to them my defense to your accusations that Catholics don’t know our Bibles. Yes, I have posted my defense repeatedly, because you have voiced the accusation repeatedly. Keep posting the accusation and I will keep posting the defense.
If you’d like to serve as a good witness to us poor misguided Catholics, a good way to start would be to quit talking down to us. Yes, some Catholics here have been rude to you, but that has little to do with the content of your belief and everything to do with your attitude. You can tell us how prayer works for you without assuming that our prayers are “vain repetition.” You can tell us what you think it means to be born again without dismissing our belief with comments like, “good luck.” You can tell us what you believe without telling us we “need to open the Bible.”
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savedsinner
Guest
Being born again through baptism is the first step to salvation.
It is not just simply believing in Jesus that saves you.
Through baptism, we are forgiven of our original sin, and all sins up to that point, and the Holy Spirit enters us leaving an indelible mark on our souls, which will last forever making us children of God.
The fall of Adam cut us from being called children of God, while Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross has brought us back to being children of God. Jesus gave us baptism as the means that we are born again, forgiven of sins and recieve the Holy Spirit, so we can once again become children of God.
I don’t know how much clearer it can be than the following verses.
John 3:3
“Truly, truly, I say to you, **unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” **
John 3:5
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
John 3:22
After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.
John 2:23 - 25
Now when he was in Jerusalem at the Passover feast, many believed in his name when they saw the signs which he did; but Jesus did not trust himself to them, because he knew all men and needed no one to bear witness of man; for he himself knew what was in man.
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John 1:12-13
But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Ezekiel 36:25 - 27
** I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses,** and from all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances.
Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit
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JoeyWarren
Guest
Misslollipop, you have to answer these accusations before we can continue…
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theweeper
Guest
if you are so sure of what it means to be born again why ask the question? sometimes i think people just want to pick fights
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Pier
Guest
By your & perhaps others’ litmus test…
I don’t mean to be rude, by how many times can you receive our Lord in a year? Every day? Every week?
You are preaching to the choir, Miss Lollipop.
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JoeyWarren
Guest
Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.
Acts 16:15 - Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word “household” comes from the Greek word “oikos” which is a household that includes infants and children.
Acts 16:15 - further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia’s faith, not the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents’ faith, not the children’s faith.
Acts 16:30-33 - it was only the adults who were candidates for baptism that had to profess a belief in Jesus. This is consistent with the Church’s practice of instructing catechumens before baptism. But this verse does not support a “believer’s baptism” requirement for everyone. See Acts 16:15,33. The earlier one comes to baptism, the better. For those who come to baptism as adults, the Church has always required them to profess their belief in Christ. For babies who come to baptism, the Church has always required the parents to profess the belief in Christ on behalf of the baby. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about a requirement for ALL baptism candidates to profess their own belief in Christ (because the Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years).
Acts 16:33 - Paul baptized the jailer (an adult) and his entire household (which had to include children). Baptism is never limited to adults and those of the age of reason. See also Luke 19:9; John 4:53; Acts 11:14; 1 Cor. 1:16; and 1 Tim. 3:12; Gen. 31:41; 36:6; 41:51; Joshua 24:15; 2 Sam. 7:11, 1 Chron. 10:6 which shows “oikos” generally includes children.
Acts 16:15 - Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word “household” comes from the Greek word “oikos” which is a household that includes infants and children.
Acts 16:15 - further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia’s faith, not the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents’ faith, not the children’s faith.
Acts 16:30-33 - it was only the adults who were candidates for baptism that had to profess a belief in Jesus. This is consistent with the Church’s practice of instructing catechumens before baptism. But this verse does not support a “believer’s baptism” requirement for everyone. See Acts 16:15,33. The earlier one comes to baptism, the better. For those who come to baptism as adults, the Church has always required them to profess their belief in Christ. For babies who come to baptism, the Church has always required the parents to profess the belief in Christ on behalf of the baby. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about a requirement for ALL baptism candidates to profess their own belief in Christ (because the Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years).
Acts 16:33 - Paul baptized the jailer (an adult) and his entire household (which had to include children). Baptism is never limited to adults and those of the age of reason. See also Luke 19:9; John 4:53; Acts 11:14; 1 Cor. 1:16; and 1 Tim. 3:12; Gen. 31:41; 36:6; 41:51; Joshua 24:15; 2 Sam. 7:11, 1 Chron. 10:6 which shows “oikos” generally includes children.
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maurin
Guest
Joey,
with all due respect to misslollipops, please don’t hold your breath.
She holds up one strawman after the other when pressed to explain her inconsistencies and conflicting statements.
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JoeyWarren
Guest
Quote:
Misslollipop, you have to answer these accusations before we can continue…
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JoeyWarren
Guest
You are right. But If I keep posting it, she will either have to answer or leave. That will eventually become her own personal ultimatum. If she leaves, then we can concentrate on those that are here to learn the truth. Eventually we will have to follow scripture and treat her as a publican.
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Teflon93
Guest
“Critical hit—we’ve lost apostolic succession! Quick, throw 7 books of the Bible into the portable hole, Heretic!”Yeah, where do these people think we get our doctrines? Alien abduction? d20 dice rolls?
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guanophore
Guest
I think we understand what you have been saying, but we know it is not consistent with the Apostolic Tradition. You think this way because you have rejected the authority that Jesus appointed to lead His Church.
Christian parents understand that baptism is the replacement for cirucumcision in the New Covenant. They brought their infants for baptism because this is the Apostolic Teaching. The children are holy not because they have been born to a Christian parent, but because they have been brought into the New Covenant through Baptism.
Col 2:11-12
11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12 and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Circumcision is a sign of the Old Covenant, Baptism of the new.
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maurin
Guest
I think that a different question to ask misslollipops is:
Please cite us the book, chapter and verse which prohibits baptising of infants.
Please cite us the book, chapter and verse which prohibits baptising of infants.
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guanophore
Guest
misslollipops is telling us two things. One is that her ground was apparently not fertile so the seed did not grow. But she is also telling us that her parent(s) failed in their sacred duty to raise her in the faith. They reniged on the vows they made when they approached the Baptismal font to teach her all the ways of the Lord. this is not her fault, but theirs. May this sin not be laid against them for they made a vow to the Lord then failed to keep it, and are therefore not only answerable for themselves, but for the child they brought.
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