How do I know if I'm born again?

[maurin]

If baptism doesn’t save babies why do it?

One cannot enter into the Kingdom of God without having been born from above. If a child dies before attaining the age of reason, he has been born from above, and can enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Gamera]

you are a believer
you baptise your kids they become born again and never repent.
your kids grow up, they are believers
they baptize their kids who become born again and never repent
and so on.
Each person needs to repent before being born again

Okay, you’re a believer. You raise your child to be a Christian. Part of the Christian faith which you teach your child is that whenever they sin, they must repent. Your child grows to adulthood. They know that whenever they sin, they must repent, because that’s part of the Christian faith which you taught them. And they teach their children the same thing.

Where is the problem? How does infant baptism throw a monkey wrench into the gears? Infant baptism doesn’t mean you don’t teach your children as they age to repent when they sin.

 

[misslollipops]

One cannot enter into the Kingdom of God without having been born from above. If a child dies before attaining the age of reason, he has been born from above, and can enter the kingdom of God.

The saying a prayer and dipping the baby in water makes him born from above?

 

[Steve40]

What does it mean to be born again?

Born again is synonymous Baptism as Christ said (born of water and spirit).

 

[Gamera]

If baptism doesn’t save babies why do it?

Baptism washes away all sins that the person currently has. A baptized baby has entered a state of grace. Parents baptize a baby to get that baby into a state of grace.

Years later, as that child reaches the age of reason, that state of grace will be lost at the first mortal sin, and repentence then will be needed for the child to return to grace. But at least they’ll have been in a state of grace during their formative years. Also, God forbid that the child does not survive to the age of reason, the child will enter heaven because they’ve been cleansed of original sin and have not yet committed any personal sin.

 

[Gamera]

The saying a prayer and dipping the baby in water makes him born from above?

No, the Holy Spirit makes the child born from above, THROUGH the use of the water. The water is merely the instrument of the Holy Spirit.

 

[maurin]

The saying a prayer and dipping the baby in water makes him born from above?

John 3: 5: Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

 

[guanophore]

I have a cathechism and Canon law sitting right in front of me. Along with my sword of course!
You can’t really be in a conversation like this without a bible in front of you and expect to be taken seriously. Can you?

Good for you! You are on your way home.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

John 3: 5: Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

I beginning to wonder if that verse is missing in misslollipops’ Bible, because every time I’ve posted it in this thread she ignores it. I don’t get it.

I first responded to misslollipops saying, “If you want to be born again try turning your whole will, body, and mind, over to God through prayer.”
PixieDust in Post #323:

So you’re claiming to know better than Jesus what one must do to be born again? Cause that’s not what Jesus says at all.

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (D-R)

Then misslollipops says, “I just said open your bible.”
PixieDust in Post #567:

Well, misslollipops, I have opened my Bible. And in my Bible, in St John’s Gospel, Chapter Three, verse five: Jesus says that we are to be born again of water and the Spirit - baptism. I don’t know why you persistently ignore the very words of Christ and try to make being born again some firecracker earth shattering experience. Emotionalism is not salvation.

 

[misslollipops]

Baptism washes away all sins that the person currently has. A baptized baby has entered a state of grace. Parents baptize a baby to get that baby into a state of grace.

Years later, as that child reaches the age of reason, that state of grace will be lost at the first mortal sin, and repentence then will be needed for the child to return to grace. But at least they’ll have been in a state of grace during their formative years. Also, God forbid that the child does not survive to the age of reason, the child will enter heaven because they’ve been cleansed of original sin and have not yet committed any personal sin.

Do you think that after the baby is baptized he could break ex20:12? If so is he still covered?

 

[Gamera]

Do you think that after the baby is baptized he could break ex20:12? If so is he still covered?

Yes, the child remains capable of committing any sin once he reaches the age of reason. Baptism removes sin, but it doesn’t remove free will.

No, he is not still “covered” by grace once he sins. Any mortal sin will cost him the grace which he received at baptism.

But of course, if you’re old enough to commit a personal sin, you’re old enough to repent, which is what he must now do if he has sinned. He will need to repent if he is to regain the grace he lost by sinning.

 

[misslollipops]

Yes, the child remains capable of committing any sin once he reaches the age of reason. Baptism removes sin, but it doesn’t remove free will.

No, he is not still “covered” by grace once he sins. Any mortal sin will cost him the grace which he received at baptism.

But of course, if you’re old enough to commit a personal sin, you’re old enough to repent, which is what he must now do if he has sinned.

So a baby can’t sin until he reaches the age of reason?
Are you saying it is impossible for the baby to sin or whatever a baby does it is not ‘considered’ sin until the age of reason?
And when is the age of reason?

 

[guanophore]

I don’t know.Bible says children of a believing spouse are holy. Don’t know about the rest.

Ok, let’s work with that, then. If the children are holy in the sense that they are “set apart”, then what do you think they are set apart from?

What are they set apart for?

HOW are they set apart. I mean, how are they different from children not born into a family with at least one believing parent?

 

[guanophore]

So the children and babies do not have to repent and they get the Holy Spirit? They get born again without repenting?

Now you are getting it! What post number are we on?

If that were the case, then 2000 years ago, the first person who repented would have covered every generation after him till today. His children would be born again without repenting then the children’s children would be born again without repenting and so on and so on.

Well, yes an no. What you are saying is true, that this practice has been going on for 2000 years until today. However, not everyone baptized holds onto their faith (you make a good example of that ) And not everyone is able to go through their whole life without sin, so repentance is still needed.

Repentance is the key.

Yes, repentance is the key to continue walking in a state of grace. In baptism, sins are washed way, both original, and personal. After that, repentance washes away personal sin.
Why do you think the Apostles Creed says “one baptism for the forgiveness of sin”? Did you think that was made up recently?

Each person must do it to be born again.

Yes, persons who are able to repent are required to do so. The very young, very old, and incapacited are not.

One person cannot do it for another.

Maybe that is the subject for another thread?

James 5:19-20

19 My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way **will save his soul **from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Jude 22-23
2 And convince some, who doubt; 23 save some, by snatching them out of the fire; on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Rom 11:13-15
I magnify my ministry 14 in order to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.

 

[guanophore]

People who convert to judaism are called proselytes. They are not true Jews.
To Be a true Jew you have to be of the bloodline of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
If you are of this bloodline, you are a Jew from birth. The circumcision is only a sign of the covenant wih God

Your definition of a “Jew” is not consistent with scripture.

Rom 2:29
29 He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God.

 

[guanophore]

According to this theology they don’t have to because they are already saved.

This is not the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles, miss. Jesus and the Apostles taught that a person could arrive in state of grace, then fall out, or jump out of that state of grace. Since you have said that you are not an OSAS believer, then this should make sense to you. If you return now to your previousl state of debauchery, you will not attain eternal life. Therefore, no matter when a person is baptized, whether infant, child, or adult, if a person sins again after baptism, then one must repent.

 

[misslollipops]

Ok, let’s work with that, then. If the children are holy in the sense that they are “set apart”, then what do you think they are set apart from?

What are they set apart for?

HOW are they set apart. I mean, how are they different from children not born into a family with at least one believing parent?

They are set apart from judgement.
I will give my OPINION on this. I have a few scriptures to back up that opinion. But nothing is concrete. First 1cor7:14 children of believers are holy, as you already stated.
Then check out Rom5:13, sin is not imputed when there is no law.
The law(ten commandments) is our schoolmaster. It shows us what sin is. Rom7:7
Keep in mind this is just my OPINION.
Since the bible is silent on this issue this is the only way I can come up with an answer.
Since God is just, I don’t believe He would judge a baby who does not even understand the law or sin.
This is an opinion.

 

[misslollipops]

Your definition of a “Jew” is not consistent with scripture.

Rom 2:29
29 He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God.

Ask a Jew.

 

[guanophore]

and nowhere and at no time has the Church taught that it is Baptism which saves you. It is Christ’s Sacrifice on Calvary which saves you. Baptism is one of the Rites of Initiation.

This is not entirely ltrue, maurin. The Church DOES teach that baptism saves. Baptism is the manner in which the saving work of Christ is applied to the believer. It is a ceremonial washing in the blood, whereby we die to self, and come alive unto God.

What miss is saying is that this scriptural view of baptism and the teaching of the church is not her view, and that she believes people are only saved when they have a “road of Damascus” type of experience that is emotional and moving.

 

[maurin]

This is not entirely ltrue, maurin. The Church DOES teach that baptism saves. Baptism is the manner in which the saving work of Christ is applied to the believer. It is a ceremonial washing in the blood, whereby we die to self, and come alive unto God.

What miss is saying is that this scriptural view of baptism and the teaching of the church is not her view, and that she believes people are only saved when they have a “road of Damascus” type of experience that is emotional and moving.

Actually, guanophore, it is by virtue of Christ’s Passion, Death and Resurrection that Baptism saves.

Thank you for allowing me to clarify.