How do I overcome the idea that God doesn't care?

[littlestsouls2]

The whole idea that Jesus died for me is, to me at least, more of an abstract concept. It’s not like, say, a friend takes a bullet for me. Everyone says that Jesus died for my sins like I’m supposed to be impressed by it, but is has/had no immediate impact on me.

Besides, I never really understood the connection between Christ’s death and the salvation of the world. But that is a different discussion for a different day.

Have you read any of St. Gertrude’s writings/revelations? “… She knew from this that, as the ring is the sign of espousal, so also sufferings in body or mind are testimonies of the spiritual espousal of the soul with God; so that who ever suffers may say confidently, with all truth: “My Lord Jesus Christ has espoused me to Him with His ring;” and if he recognises in those afflictions the graces which he has received, and returns thanks, he may add: “He has adorned me with a crown as His spouse;” because thanksgiving in tribulation is a crown of glory more brilliant than gold, and incomparably more precious than topaz.”

 

[Reb333]

From what it sounds I’m experiencing right now somewhat of what you are going through. Since, it is not over I can’t tell you how to get through it, but to suggest faith in God. That’s the route that I’m taking. In another post on this thread Augustine asked “Would you still love God if . . . ?” I had already thought through these questions and answered yes to them. I would still love him, but I would not expect as much from him. I believe that therein lies the problem. Because the fact remains that God made certain promises and through those promises gave us certain expectations. When those expectations are not met, it causes problems. Now, I could stop believing those promises, but that would call God a liar and that is something that I’m not prepared to do. God didn’t have to say those things, he chose to. Of the zillions things that he could have said, he chose to say these things. He chose to give us these expectations and, therefore, we’re right to have these expectations. We would be unfaithful, if we didn’t believe these promises. As simple and straightforward as it sounds, it’s not that easy. From my experience there are a few problems that can occur:

1. Lack of humility: We believe that we understand what God promised, but when something happens that seems to contradict this, we doubt God’s Word rather than doubting whether we have the correct understanding of what he said. You say that you don’t think God cares about injustice because of all the injustices he allows. Yet, in the beatitudes he says, “Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." What could be more unjust, then being persecuted because one is righteous? This passage says two things: a) there will be injustice – added that man has a sinful nature and free will, one should expect there to be injustice, and b) God does care about injustice, else why would he promise a reward for those that have experienced this injustice? Nothing would be reserved for those who experienced injustice, if God didn’t care. It also tells us something else: that justice will not be fully carried out on earth, but in heaven and hell also. So the short-term view isn’t going to work. The long-term view is what is needed. A term that has been extended, to give the unrighteous time to come to God for mercy. Since Christ paid for our sins, then it is both justice and mercy. For if God did not care about justice, then there was no need for Christ to pay for our sins. He could have said, “I don’t care what that person did to you or you did to them, we’ll just let everything go.” Yet, he didn’t do that. He cared so much for both justice and us that He gave his only begotten Son to take on the punishment for those sins. Justice done when our sins (which are injustices to God, neighbor, and ourselves) were paid through Christ’s suffering, so that mercy could be given to us. Presumption would say that we know all there is to know and God doesn’t care about injustice or us, but humility says that maybe there is something that I’m not taking into account and I should look into this further. This is what I try to do now when things don’t seem to add up. I try to give God the benefit of the doubt, and ask him what I’m missing.
   2 Trying to understand God using a worldly lens: We are raised in the world with worldly values and hold many things of the world in high regard, but you’ll notice that the beatitude I just discussed injustice wasn’t being rewarded with anything worldly, but with something Godly. While we look to worldly rewards because we hold them in high regard, God–while realizing that we have need of some worldly goods–puts them secondary to the things of God. Our values change over time. I think this is one if really hard.
2. Putting too much on ourselves and not relying on God enough: we are going to work harder than God. This is not a matter of God not caring, but a matter of ability. God watches over every living thing in the world every moment of every day. Because of who he is I honestly don’t believe that it takes much effort, if any, on his part to accomplish this. We, however, are laboring to understand things that are quite foreign to us. I went through that period of exhausting myself striving to understand. There’s only so much we can do. God has to aid us. Faith and humility come into play here, also. Instead of striving to do so much yourself, humble yourself, ask God and have faith that he will answer, then wait for the answer with the understanding that God will deliver that answer when he is ready to deliver it and that is when he has determined it is the appropriate time. And only God knows the appropriate time.
3. We’re not always going to get direct communiques from God. God delivered his message through his Word, who in turn taught His disciples, established the Church, and sent us the Holy Spirit. These in turn, have helped innumerable people in their seeking. Who in turn will share that with others still, etc., I don’t know how many times I have asked God a question and turned on the TV or the radio and heard someone tell me the answer. There have been other times, when that doesn’t happen. What I try to do is ask, seek, then keep my eyes and ears open.

Sorry, didn’t mean to write a book.

Trust in God. He’s a good God.

Regards,
Rebecca

 

[mh2007]

Peace unto all who are in this place. It seems that many of us seek out, and pray for direct and personal answers or signs from God. And hope we will get some answers. I found the direct line didn’t seem to manifest. So I chose to focus on praying for others, and live life from the place where I am. I heard a sermon recently that said the whole day and all your activities can be a prayer. To show God that you care, and that you want to glorify Him.

 

[Augustine]

Well i’ll answer just the same in that I think I would love God, but not in a deep kind of love. In a way i’ve aways found myself attracted to a kind of deism type view because while I acknowledge God, at times he doesn’t seem to do much if anything. Sadly though I think this view comes from the fact that I ignore everyday miracles and that should be enough evidence to convince me of God.

Someone whom God loved immensely left his prayers aside to do the will of God, at a dark hour he felt as if God had abandoned him, yet he loved God to the last. Our Lord Jesus Christ was him and he went through all this out of his love for us.

Pax Christi

 

[CatholicJon]

Have you had a chance to listen to Jimmy Akin on the problem of evil and suffering? I found it very helpful for myself as someone who has battled with depression and anxiety his whole life even tho I am doing ok right now.

 

[Methos]

Are you looking for a warm fuzzy feeling? You’ll be disappointed.

God is love by DEED. Not by warm fuzzies.

God cares about you by…caring for you and providing for you.

However, we’re still emotional beings. Most people based their understanding of love on the emotion before going onto the “willing the good of another.” I’m not able to feel that emotion and only have faint memories of it, if I even felt in the past. Thus, when someone talks about love, I’m at a lost. It’s like someone discussing calculus to me when I don’t know basic arithmetic. So, if I do some kindness for someone, it’s either out of habit (as in calling AAA for someone in the rain) or I’ll benefit from it in some way. Yet, people will see it as “love.”

 

[Methos]

Isn’t the greatest proof that He gave His life for you?

And I just made a paper airplane that entertained me for a few seconds before I crumpled and threw it in the trash.

Maybe I was created to help one of his favorites, or act as a task for that person or even an obstacle or impediment. Then, tossed aside unless I’m “needed” and pulled out of the trash.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

And I just made a paper airplane that entertained me for a few seconds before I crumpled and threw it in the trash.

Maybe I was created to help one of his favorites, or act as a task for that person or even an obstacle or impediment. Then, tossed aside unless I’m “needed” and pulled out of the trash.

You do realize that the moment God does that you cease to exist, right?

And do you really think (oh my goodness, THINK!) that somebody who DIED for you (as Monica4316 said in that post) would DO that to you?

sigh All this self-pity, all this despair…you (and others here who think like this) will NEVER learn the joy of heaven if you continue like this.

Do you want to see the true way of finding joy, of knowing God’s love? I point you to none other than BobCatholic here. Read his past posts of months ago and compare them to his posts now. I will let them speak for themselves how BobCatholic changed, in that realizing that heaven is meant to be assaulted, not waited upon.

And from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent bear it away. (Matthew 11:12)

Christians are meant to read Jesus’ Good News, then pick up that Gospel and go to Jesus, show it to Him and say, with the spirit of humble audacity, “Lord, You said these promises, right? Well, here I am, and I am willing to pay any price for them.”

“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up; then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it." (Matthew 13: 44-46)

Desolation, extreme sadness, when seemingly God has turned away from you, is not an excuse to stop assaulting heaven. Indeed, this is the time to step up the attack!

And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and cried, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon.” But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying after us.” He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” And he answered, “It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.” Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly. (Matthew 15:21-28)

So how do you overcome the idea that God doesn’t care? Prove that God does care: assault heaven by making a leap of faith.

Faith is like a parachute: only when you jump will you feel it support you. DO something that you have been afraid of doing, and trust in the Lord.

 

[BobCatholic]

However, we’re still emotional beings.

I’m with you on this.

I struggle with the teaching that we are to conquer our passions, it seems to tell us that we must not be so emotional or we must act like robots. Unfortunately, nobody gets the warm fuzzies from the Gospel preached (by word or deed) by robots…I also don’t see how we can be joyful when we have our passions conquered.

So, if I do some kindness for someone, it’s either out of habit (as in calling AAA for someone in the rain) or I’ll benefit from it in some way. Yet, people will see it as “love.”

That’s love in deed versus love in word.

 

[littlestsouls2]

Faith is like a parachute: only when you jump will you feel it support you. DO something that you have been afraid of doing, and trust in the Lord.

Some good advice for many of us; but I particularly enjoyed your analogy of faith! I might use it one day

 

[BobCatholic]

Faith is like a parachute: only when you jump will you feel it support you.

Ah, but one must do so in the will of God.

Suppose God’s will is “wait until we are at 30,000 feet then jump” and you jump at 400 feet.

If the plane is 400 feet off the ground, and you jump and try to use the parachute, it won’t open in time and you’ll hit the ground hard.

First, make sure you are doing the will of God, at the correct timing. Otherwise, SPLAT!

 

[Methos]

+JMJ+

Do you want to see the true way of finding joy, of knowing God’s love? I point you to none other than BobCatholic here. Read his past posts of months ago and compare them to his posts now. I will let them speak for themselves how BobCatholic changed, in that realizing that heaven is meant to be assaulted, not waited upon.

I’ve read a few of them. While I can comprehend, I don’t understand. So, I can’t see the change.

Christians are meant to read Jesus’ Good News, then pick up that Gospel and go to Jesus, show it to Him and say, with the spirit of humble audacity, “Lord, You said these promises, right? Well, here I am, and I am willing to pay any price for them.”

“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up; then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it." (Matthew 13: 44-46)

Take these quotes for an example of my assertion. When I first heard them in CCD, I asked why didn’t he just take the treasure under cover of night or take it piecemeal. For the latter, I asked how was the man going to eat as he sold everything and would have to sell the pearl in order to do so. People thought I was being rude,etc. I honestly didn’t understand, although I could comprehend as in the merchant sold many things to buy another thing, but the teacher and everyone decided not to answer and moved on. Later on, talking years later, someone explain that the people wanted the items so much that they were willing to sacrifice greatly for them.

So, I can read countless books on spirituality from Augustine to Scott Hahn, quote them and make myself seem wise and enlightened. Yet, the understanding is not there. I’m just more knowledgeable, but far from wise. (Oh, before you say that this is great piece of wisdom I came up with, I’m paraphrasing the ideas of Thomas Sowell)

So how do you overcome the idea that God doesn’t care? Prove that God does care: assault heaven by making a leap of faith.

Faith is like a parachute: only when you jump will you feel it support you. DO something that you have been afraid of doing, and trust in the Lord.

And every time I’ve tried, I’ve failed. I’m incapable of keeping up any confidence. I’m unable to “fake it until you make it.” While people like my father might be of the “try, try, try again,” I’m more of “either you can do it or not.” or as some people call it the “Yoda School.” So, even if I’m able to do something I’m afraid to do, any confidence or faith I may have will be short-lived. I went to college and graduated, got into the Teacher program and got my certificate. I’m sure people would think that these thing took courage. I likely got in as a fluke, I failed my initial major and went for an easier one and while I may have graduated from a poorly designed program, I was never hired. So I’m almost to the point of why bother when it all leads to dead ends.I just gain more useless knowledge. Add to all of this my dysthymic and schizoid disorders and I wish it would just end. Maybe He’ll see fit to send me into oblivion instead of hell.

 

[Reb333]

And I just made a paper airplane that entertained me for a few seconds before I crumpled and threw it in the trash.

Maybe I was created to help one of his favorites, or act as a task for that person or even an obstacle or impediment. Then, tossed aside unless I’m “needed” and pulled out of the trash.

Because those are all tendencies of someone that uses other people and not tendencies that are reflected in God. Because God cared about you He gave you free will. A user, on the other hand, tries to subvert your will to gain their own ends with no care of the effect that it will have on you. The armed robber uses force, the thief goes behind your back, and the liar lies to you to gain what you would not otherwise give him. Because God cares for you He gave you life and gave the life of His only begotten Son to preserve that life. A user seeks to take that life when it benefits him, so the slave owner enslaves, the mother aborts, and the murderer murders. Because God cares about you He gave you the Truth (even the hard ones), so that you can make informed decisions, while the tyrant, the liar, the false witness all seek to suppress that Truth, so that you will be misinformed.

BTW, God doesn’t NEED you for anything. He wants you, but he also wants you to want Him.

 

[anytimequilter]

Originally Posted by nuntym View Post
Faith is like a parachute: only when you jump will you feel it support you.

Ah, but one must do so in the will of God.

Suppose God’s will is “wait until we are at 30,000 feet then jump” and you jump at 400 feet.

If the plane is 400 feet off the ground, and you jump and try to use the parachute, it won’t open in time and you’ll hit the ground hard.

First, make sure you are doing the will of God, at the correct timing. Otherwise, SPLAT!

This is a big part of what I deal with. God doesn’t give me written instructions… if he told me to jump at 30,000 feet that is exactly what I would do… but no directions

I read this thread because it is exactly how I am feeling now…its nothing that I want to feel. I do try the best I know how, but I do feel abandoned by God. The pain is very real and very strong… its the type of pain that makes me understand why people need alcohol and drugs to numb the pain…I guess everyone numbs the pain in their own way. Why prayer is not working is beyond me… maybe I pray wrong??

The one thing that keeps me from completely breaking down is …if I feel abandoned by God now, that means that I must have felt His presence and love before… otherwise I wouldn’t miss it now. Someday I will find it again…

 

[BobCatholic]

However, we’re still emotional beings. Most people based their understanding of love on the emotion before going onto the “willing the good of another.” I’m not able to feel that emotion and only have faint memories of it, if I even felt in the past. Thus, when someone talks about love, I’m at a lost. It’s like someone discussing calculus to me when I don’t know basic arithmetic. So, if I do some kindness for someone, it’s either out of habit (as in calling AAA for someone in the rain) or I’ll benefit from it in some way. Yet, people will see it as “love.”

Then there’s the other part: The “how do we see God” part.

Imagine one sees God as a harsh taskmaster. VERY HARD to Love him!
Imagine one sees God as a warm loving father and one gets warm fuzzies. VERY EASY to love him!

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Take these quotes for an example of my assertion. When I first heard them in CCD, I asked why didn’t he just take the treasure under cover of night or take it piecemeal. For the latter, I asked how was the man going to eat as he sold everything and would have to sell the pearl in order to do so. People thought I was being rude,etc. I honestly didn’t understand, although I could comprehend as in the merchant sold many things to buy another thing, but the teacher and everyone decided not to answer and moved on. Later on, talking years later, someone explain that the people wanted the items so much that they were willing to sacrifice greatly for them.

I can’t see anything wrong with your questioning, all I can see is there’s something wrong with that study group you were in. It was an excellent question.

And every time I’ve tried, I’ve failed. I’m incapable of keeping up any confidence. I’m unable to “fake it until you make it.” While people like my father might be of the “try, try, try again,” I’m more of “either you can do it or not.” or as some people call it the “Yoda School.” So, even if I’m able to do something I’m afraid to do, any confidence or faith I may have will be short-lived. I went to college and graduated, got into the Teacher program and got my certificate. I’m sure people would think that these thing took courage. I likely got in as a fluke, I failed my initial major and went for an easier one and while I may have graduated from a poorly designed program, I was never hired. So I’m almost to the point of why bother when it all leads to dead ends.I just gain more useless knowledge. Add to all of this my dysthymic and schizoid disorders and I wish it would just end. Maybe He’ll see fit to send me into oblivion instead of hell.

Oh you mean that “There is no try, do” quote by Yoda? Pfft.

I mean let’s be honest here, I love the Star Wars original trilogy (but please never mention Episodes I-III to me), but they are poor teachers of theology.

Well how about a quote from someone more reputable? Let’s say, one of the authors you mentioned?

Hope has two beautiful daughters. Their names are anger and courage; anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain the way they are. (St. Augustine of Hippo)

As I said before, all this self-pity, all this despair. Are you not angry with all of this?

Jesus said: “Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart” (Matthew 11:29). Meekness is not all about having no anger. Indeed, Jesus was angry a number of times in the Gospel, and we all know how many times God was angry in the Old Testament.

No, meekness is all about being angry at the right things, at the right proportion. “Be angry, and sin not” (Ephesians 4:26). Righteous anger is like harnessed wind power, while sinful anger is, to use an crude metaphor, just passing wind.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

This is a big part of what I deal with. God doesn’t give me written instructions… if he told me to jump at 30,000 feet that is exactly what I would do… but no directions

I read this thread because it is exactly how I am feeling now…its nothing that I want to feel. I do try the best I know how, but I do feel abandoned by God. The pain is very real and very strong… its the type of pain that makes me understand why people need alcohol and drugs to numb the pain…I guess everyone numbs the pain in their own way. Why prayer is not working is beyond me… maybe I pray wrong??

The one thing that keeps me from completely breaking down is …if I feel abandoned by God now, that means that I must have felt His presence and love before… otherwise I wouldn’t miss it now. Someday I will find it again…

Ah, but one must do so in the will of God.

Suppose God’s will is “wait until we are at 30,000 feet then jump” and you jump at 400 feet.

If the plane is 400 feet off the ground, and you jump and try to use the parachute, it won’t open in time and you’ll hit the ground hard.

First, make sure you are doing the will of God, at the correct timing. Otherwise, SPLAT!

It is actually quite easy to know what God wants us to do: love Him.

“Love, and do what you will.” St. Augustine of Hippo

“We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.” Romans 8:28

Still in the dark on what to do? That is even better. If you love God, and do not know what to do, then do whatever that seems reasonable.

“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.” St. John of the Cross

Scary, huh?

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Methos, do you want a fun way to learn how not to give up, how to use your anger and courage to keep on trying until you succeed?

Play Demon Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2, or Bloodborne.

 

[BobCatholic]

+JMJ+

It is actually quite easy to know what God wants us to do: love Him.

“Love, and do what you will.” St. Augustine of Hippo

“We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.” Romans 8:28

Still in the dark on what to do? That is even better. If you love God, and do not know what to do, then do whatever that seems reasonable.

What if I want to love God, but don’t know how?

What if I want to love God and He won’t let me? (it is not enough, you are rejected!)

Suppose I don’t know God well enough, and he has rejected me because he does not know me. Suppose I go through great sufferings in life only to be rejected at the end?

“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.” St. John of the Cross

Scary, huh?

St. John of the Cross was talking about the Dark Night. A series of sufferings that will lead people closer to God. During this time, God appears to be far away, and all is darkness.

BEFORE you can go through the Dark Night, you will go through great consolations, spiritual experiences of where God is CLEARLY close to you. There is zero doubt in your mind you are close to God. It is a wonderful mystical experience.

Those mystical experiences never happened to me. Clearly, I’m not going through a dark night.

 

[Methos]

What if I want to love God, but don’t know how?

What if I want to love God and He won’t let me? (it is not enough, you are rejected!)

Suppose I don’t know God well enough, and he has rejected me because he does not know me. Suppose I go through great sufferings in life only to be rejected at the end?

While most people think Revelations is frightening, I think Matthew 22:11-13 (the parable of the wedding banquet) along side Matthew 25:14-30 (the parable of the talents) are truly terrifying for me. I can truly imagine people who can feel love and happiness, have friends, etc, going to heaven because I “helped” them by offering up my suffering while I go to hell. They’ll get the best of both worlds.

I know someone will say feelings and the other things aren’t important. It’s sort of like seeing someone enjoying a large meal while I’m on the floor starving. Then, after they’re done, they tell me I wouldn’t have liked or needed it anyway.