How do I respond to this? (Sola Fide verses)

[Nicene]

I will certainly not answer you Nicene in accordance with your folly.

Why not? The verses are extremely plain. If I confess with my lips that Jesus is Lord I am justified by this faith and it is a 100% done deal.

You guys taught me this. Are you saying that it is wrong now? That I have to do something else.

Sorry but if I have to DO anything else you are selling justification by works.

Once again, are the above verses true or not? If you say they are true, then I am right and what you guys initially taught me is right. If you say I have to DO one single other thing you have added works.

Make your choice. We live by faith alone or not.

The folly would be in not answering me because then you declare justification by works.

I say I am 100% done and am going to heaven by my profession of faith alone as declared in the above two verses. Contradict me.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[VociMike]

You need to rearead my postings more carefully. My criticism was of sacramental works/rituals/ceremonies…and I advocated true faith that manifests itself in obedience and love.

Who me? I wasn’t even replying to anything you wrote. But obedience to God’s will means obedience to His entire will. You don’t get to pick and choose. If His Church tells us that God desires us to partake of the sacraments He has given us, then to refuse those sacraments is disobedience. It is lack of faith and rejection of God.

 

[Nicene]

You need to rearead my postings more carefully. My criticism was of sacramental works/rituals/ceremonies…and I advocated true faith that manifests itself in obedience and love.

Obedience and love aren’t part of those two verses. This thread was started by those two verses.

Faith alone has no place for anything other than faith alone.

But to play devils advocate. The word sacramentum derives from oath. The first false christians were murdered by the Roman emperors for making those oaths contrary to the law of making only oaths to ceasar. They didn’t practice faith alone, so obviously they were false christians.

If you say I need anything else than to say "Jesus is Lord’ you nullify the very thing you guys sold me in the first place and rely on works. You also nullify that it is a 100% done deal.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[teachccd]

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Craig

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Thank you for Scripturally demonstrating faith and works. You did good! Also check out James 2:26. I think that you forgot to mention this verse. Remember that all scripture is inspired and equips us not just selected verses. God Bless… Oh and your welcome for your Bible which the Catholic Church acknowledged and maintained for you throughout the centuries…

 

[Linkowski]

I have not found the commands in scripture to obey these ceremonies, which, again amount to the type of laws that the Pharisees were guilty of instituting.

Ask my Grandma how she is getting to heaven - she’ll boast of her following of the sacraments. Preach the cross and she calls it foolishness. This is the typical response of the Catholic at the door when out evangelizing…boasting of good works as some kind of meriting of heaven. We all know this is wrong.

Ephesians 2:8-9 NAS95 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[Linkowski]

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Thank you for Scripturally demonstrating faith and works. You did good! Also check out James 2:26. I think that you forgot to mention this verse. Remember that all scripture is inspired and equips us not just selected verses. God Bless… Oh and your welcome for your Bible which the Catholic Church acknowledged and maintained for you throughout the centuries…

You have not read carefully all of my postings for I have used these scriptures…you pull them from context…I explained them in the very context of the scriptures dealing with salvation. Will you understand?

You know, this is the same kind of treatment that I get all of the time on here. Criticism and frustration. I suppose that this means something.

 

[teachccd]

You have not read carefully all of my postings for I have used these scriptures…you pull them from context…I explained them in the very context of the scriptures dealing with salvation. Will you understand?

You know, this is the same kind of treatment that I get all of the time on here. Criticism and frustration. I suppose that this means something.

If you can give me the post number where you addressed James 2:26 please accept my humble apology. If not then I’ll accept yours.

 

[Nicene]

I have not found the commands in scripture to obey these ceremonies, which, again amount to the type of laws that the Pharisees were guilty of instituting.

Ask my Grandma how she is getting to heaven - she’ll boast of her following of the sacraments. Preach the cross and she calls it foolishness. This is the typical response of the Catholic at the door when out evangelizing…boasting of good works as some kind of meriting of heaven. We all know this is wrong.

Ephesians 2:8-9 NAS95 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I know what you mean. Those first real christians would never follow those false verses “do this in rememberance of me” The oath (sacramentum) where they said Amen, declaring it to be their Lord. The first real christians would never have been dunked in water declaring their allegiance to the trinity.

The real christians didn’t believe in the oath (sacramentum) of Marriage. The first real christians didn’t have elders, presbyters (priests) and deacons who took an oath (sacramentum) to serve God.

The first real christians never would have annointed anyone on the head with oil when they were sick and dying.

The first real christians would never have confessed their sins.

All those sacramentums (oaths) are contrary to faith alone. Only the false christians were accused of drowning babies in water and eating the flesh of humans as sacramentums against ceasar.

I am so glad I don’t believe any more in Marriage, dunking in water, remembrance ceremonies of last suppers, preachers, and confessing any sin or that false unscriptural annointing of oil stuff for sick people. All those unchristian oaths (sacramentum) to God.

The non belief in marriage oath is really cool, now I can go around with any chicks I want and well you know.

Cuz I only have to live by faith alone and say JESUS IS LORD:

Romans 1:16-17, “I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the (AF)Jew first and also to (AG)the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.””

Romans 10:9-10, “If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”

Thanks for getting me out from under the yoke of the marriage oath (sacramentum) in particular. I was highly worried that I would never get to date again.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[teachccd]

You know, this is the same kind of treatment that I get all of the time on here. Criticism and frustration. I suppose that this means something.

Uh, you’re on a Catholic forum. If we all agreed you wouldn’t be protestant. Incidentally that brings me to one thought. In Ephesians 1:4 and in John chapter 17 Scripture is explicit when it refers to unity. So isn’t each schism a breach of faith? Back to the upper room 2000 years ago there were no protestants. One Holy Spirit, One faith… that’s God’s will, not a bunch of people tearing apart the One Church that Christ founded. And it’s not a contemporary Church founded in the last 500 years by some person or persons. What a chaotic mess…

 

[teachccd]

I know what you mean. Those first real christians would never follow those false verses “do this in rememberance of me” The oath (sacramentum) where they said Amen, declaring it to be their Lord. The first real christians would never have been dunked in water declaring their allegiance to the trinity.

The real christians didn’t believe in the oath (sacramentum) of Marriage. The first real christians didn’t have elders who took an oath (sacramentum)

The first real christians never would have annointed anyone on the head with oil when they were sick and dying.

The first real christians would never have confessed their sins.

All those sacramentums (oaths) are contrary to faith alone. Only the false christians were accused of drowning babies in water and eating the flesh of humans as sacramentums against ceasar.

I am so glad I don’t believe any more in Marriage, dunking in water, remembrance ceremonies of last suppers, preachers, and confessing any sin or that false unscriptural annointing of oil stuff for sick people. All those unchristian oaths (sacramentum) to God.

The non belief in marriage oath is really cool, now I can go around with any chicks I want and well you know.

Cuz I only have to live by faith alone and say JESUS IS LORD:

Romans 1:16-17, “I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the (AF)Jew first and also to (AG)the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.””

Romans 10:9-10, “If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”

Thanks for getting me out from under the yoke of the marriage oath (sacramentum) in particular. I was highly worried that I would never get to date again.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[teachccd]

Linkowski,

How do you know that your Bible is inspired? Because it says so? So does the Koran and the New world Translation that the Jehovah’s Witnesses use. So how does the Bible, that you so authoritatively quote, become known as inspired??

In the Catholic Church we know because it was brought to us through an inspired Church, maintained by an inspired Church and interpreted by an inspired Church.

I know that this is off topic. ( Or is it? ) But if you’re going to continue hitting Catholics over the head with the Scriptures that were brought to you by us then it becomes pertinent. Thank you and God Bless…

 

[Nicene]

Doesn’t that oath (sacramentum) of marriage mean that all married people are blaspheming against God? It isn’t living by faith alone after all.

I remember from my old days as a catholic (about an hour ago) when there was a verse that said something…hang on let me look it up:

Ahhh here it is:

1 Tim:41: Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2: through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared,
3: who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

It doesn’t say forbid marriage of priests but refers to forbidding of all marriages from what I can see. Thank God I don’t believe in the oath (Sacramentum) of marriage anymore and live by faith alone instead. I knew those verses were false when I first saw them. No real christian would take an oath (sacramentum) of marriage, it is a work of the law from which I am now freed.

I thank the Lord that as a protestant I don’t have to live by that stuff anymore and was shown the light of the true gospel

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[teachccd]

Doesn’t that oath (sacramentum) of marriage mean that all married people are blaspheming against God? It isn’t living by faith alone after all.

I remember from my old days as a catholic (about an hour ago) when there was a verse that said something…hang on let me look it up:

Ahhh here it is:

1 Tim:41: Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2: through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared,
3: who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

It doesn’t say forbid marriage of priests but refers to forbidding of all marriages from what I can see. Thank God I don’t believe in the oath (Sacramentum) of marriage anymore and live by faith alone instead. I knew those verses were false when I first saw them. No real christian would take an oath (sacramentum) of marriage, it is a work of the law from which I am now freed.

I thank the Lord that as a protestant I don’t have to live by that stuff anymore and was shown the light of the true gospel

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

You’d think this stuff was obvious. Faith alone. What a concept… God Bless Nicene! You really know how to reason our faith and keep it lighthearted…

 

[Church_Militant]

Criticism will not work…adding rituals to be a means of salvation is typified by the Pharisees…

Gee, I’d worry about that if that is what the Catholic Church teaches…but since that isn’t what the church teaches, that proves 2 things.

1. You don’t know what the heck you’re talking about with respect to our most holy faith.
2. We aren’t wrong.

you make the cross of Christ of none effect and have something certainly to boast about…

Again… another propaganda attack without substance.

but, I am resolved to trust only in the mercy of God through faith in the very sacrifice that he made in giving His Son…

Gosh…that sounds very Catholic!:clapping:

.and since I have placed my works off to the side as a means of salvation (thereby having nothing to boast of)

You can “place” them any old where you want…especially since you don’t hear Catholics boasting about any of that.

Look! More allegations without merit. It must be nice to make a whole case against someone’s faith as a complete work of fiction.

and put my faith in Christ alone apart from works…I have grown leaps and bounds and go about preaching the gospel to my family and community…Now that is real love.

Am I the only one who hears boasting there?

I can’t remember the last time a Catholic came to my door with concern for my soul…

No but I bet a Catholic or two can recall when you came to their door with this anti-Catholic propaganda to try to mislead them away from their faith.

probably because they are under the yoke of Catholic law.

Yeah right…Anybody feel like you’re “under the yoke of the Catholic law”?

Doesn’t know what he’s talking about and has an agenda to bash the Catholic faith. I’ve heard this type before.

John 6:28-29 NAS95 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

I love this! Did you see how this “Bible Only Christian” just ignored the plain scriptures that I put forth to refute this stuff and proceeds to bash the faith and preach his gospel message. It apparently doesn’t have to agree with the Word of God…just with his gospel.

Galatians 1:6 I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Nicene]

but, I am resolved to trust only in the mercy of God through faith in the very sacrifice that he made in giving His Son…and since I have placed my works off to the side as a means of salvation (thereby having nothing to boast of) and put my faith in Christ alone apart from works…I have grown leaps and bounds and go about preaching the gospel to my family and community…Now that is real love.

Why are you boasting?

Seems like work to me. Repent, that isn’t faith alone.

Remember the gospel is:

Romans 1:16-17, “I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the (AF)Jew first and also to (AG)the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.””

Romans 10:9-10, “If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”

Just say JESUS IS LORD and it’s done. No more boasting and justification through works.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Church_Militant]

You need to rearead my postings more carefully. My criticism was of sacramental works/rituals/ceremonies…and I advocated true faith that manifests itself in obedience and love.

Yeah… right. He doesn’t believe the sacraments are Biblical.

That’s kinda odd since I have read it through many times myself and I find the following Sacraments in the following passages.

Baptism: John 3:3,5, & 22-23, 2nd Kings 5:14, Ezekiel 36:25, Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 16:15 & 33, 22:16, )Ananias tells Paul, “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins,” even though Paul was converted directly by Jesus Christ. This proves that Paul’s acceptance of Jesus as personal Lord and Savior was not enough to be forgiven of his sin and saved. The sacrament of baptism is required.). Romans 6:3, 1st Corinthians 1:16, 6:11, and 15:29
**
Reconciliation (Confession):**Leviticus. 5:4-6; 19:21-22 (even under the Old Covenant, God used priests to forgive and atone for the sins of others.). Matthew 3:6,18:18, 9:6 & 8, Mark 2:7, John 20:21-23, Acts 19:18, 2nd Corinthians 5:18-19, James 5:16, 1st John 1:9-10.

The Eucharist: Foreshadowed extensively! John 6:31-70, Matthew 26:26-28, Mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:17-20, Luke 24:30-35, 1st Corinthians 10:16-17, 1st Corinthians 11:23-30.

Confirmation: Acts 8:15-18, 19:5-6, Hebrews 6:2,

Matrimony: Genesis 2:20-24, Matthew 19:5-6, Mark 10:8, Ephesians 5:22-32, Hebrews 13:4

Holy Orders: Genesis 14:18, Exodus 19:22, Psalm 110:4, Malachi 2:7, John 20:21, Acts 9:17, 13:3, 14:23, 20:28, Ephesisns 4:11, 1st THessalonians 5:12, 1st Timothy 4:14, 1st Timothy 1:6, Titus 1:5, Hebrews 5:1 & 7:17.

The Sacrament of the Sick: Matthew 10:8, Mark 6:13 & 18, James 5:14-16.

I don’t know why you didn’t see it when it’s been in the Word of God and believed by the church for 2,000 years.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[teachccd]

Is it just me or did Linkowski duck out of here as most protestants do when they’re cornered? If every Catholic could defend our ancient beliefs, all of these contemporary " Bible Only" Christians would head for the hills. They claim to be “bible only” and they can’t even read their whole bible! Matthew 25: 31-46 says NOTHING about salvation by faith alone. Come on. What do the Early Church Fathers teach about salvation? I have volumes of their writings. Imagine if each author only had to state that if we believe we are saved. Countless hours of writing about unnecessary actions of love coupled with faith. What a shame…

I thank God that I’m Catholic as I do not have to retreat from certain Bible verses. They ALL apply!!!

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thread pruned of off topic posts and new thread created on Call No Man Father.

 

[Linkowski]

1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. “Sacramental grace” is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. The Spirit heals and transforms those who receive him by conforming them to the Son of God. The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior.

I would say that I was correct concerning my memory of this passage in the CCC.

I see you have also purposefully misunderstood me several times over here as well. It is a waste of time speaking to you in this forum.

 

[Nicene]

1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. “Sacramental grace” is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. The Spirit heals and transforms those who receive him by conforming them to the Son of God. The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior.

I would say that I was correct concerning my memory of this passage in the CCC.

I see you have also purposefully misunderstood me several times over here as well. It is a waste of time speaking to you in this forum.

You are so right. I am so glad you showed me the truth. I don’t need to have Christ heal me and minister to me, that’s not part of the gospel. I have now have faith alone.

1127 Celebrated worthily in faith, the sacraments confer the grace that they signify.48 They are efficacious because in them Christ himself is at work: it is he who baptizes, he who acts in his sacraments in order to communicate the grace that each sacrament signifies. The Father always hears the prayer of his Son’s Church which, in the epiclesis of each sacrament, expresses her faith in the power of the Spirit. As fire transforms into itself everything it touches, so the Holy Spirit transforms into the divine life whatever is subjected to his power.

And I definately don’t want the Holy spirit working in me. That’s not faith alone.

*1128 This is the meaning of the Church’s affirmation49 that the sacraments act ex opere operato (literally: “by the very fact of the action’s being performed”), i.e., by virtue of the saving work of Christ, accomplished once for all. It follows that **“the sacrament is not wrought by the righteousness of either the celebrant or the recipient, but by the power of God.”**50 From the moment that a sacrament is celebrated in accordance with the intention of the Church, the power of Christ and his Spirit acts in and through it, independently of the personal holiness of the minister. Nevertheless, the fruits of the sacraments also depend on the disposition of the one who receives them.
*
And that stuff about being in union with Jesus in his divine nature. Glad you showed me the way.

*1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.51 “Sacramental grace” is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. The Spirit heals and transforms those who receive him by conforming them to the Son of God. **The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature52 by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior. ***

But like I said the oath (sacramentum) of marriage is the one I am most happy to be rid of.

Got a couple beers cooling and a couple chicks coming over if you’re interested.

Have you rid yourself of those false teachings you posted yet earlier in the thread or are you still trying to work your way into heaven? Remember it’s:

Romans 1:16-17, “I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the (AF)Jew first and also to (AG)the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.””

Romans 10:9-10, “If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”

That’s all we need, so say it with me “Jesus is Lord”. Quit quoting all that other works stuff like evangelizing. I sure am glad you saved me. Thanks a bunch.

Now about those beers and chicks…

Peace and God Bless
Nicene