How do I respond to this? (Sola Fide verses)

[jonk]

I have not found the commands in scripture to obey these ceremonies, which, again amount to the type of laws that the Pharisees were guilty of instituting.

Ask my Grandma how she is getting to heaven - she’ll boast of her following of the sacraments. Preach the cross and she calls it foolishness. This is the typical response of the Catholic at the door when out evangelizing…boasting of good works as some kind of meriting of heaven. We all know this is wrong.

Ephesians 2:8-9 NAS95 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Does your Grandma have faith? I’d say she does. And she’s following the will of the Father. She’s doing what Jesus told her to.

Many people seem to think that you can get into heaven just by being good. That if they’re good that they can demand God let them into heaven. Protestants as well as Catholics sometimes think that. That, however, is an uninformed attitude. There is no good we could possibly do to merit heaven.

So it is absolutely true that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. God’s Word says so. It is definitely NOT by works alone. It is definitely a liberating piece of Scripture, and more Catholics should take note. We don’t have to reach a certain quota of good works to be saved because the thief on the cross was saved, but we are called to do good works because if we don’t, our faith will die (James 2:20), that’s what Jesus commanded us to do so (Mat 7:21-23), and because “by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:23). We are judged according to our deeds (Rev 22:12) and they are the “treasures in heaven” we store up for ourselves (Mat 6:18-22).

“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” James 2:19-20 (KJV). That’s God’s Word, not mine. While by grace through faith we are saved, such a faith that is without works is dead. Even the demons in hell believe.

And since we see in James 2:23 that we’re definitely NOT saved by an intellectual faith - such a faith that even the demons have - alone, but by a different type of faith. One that trusts, loves and obeys God and does His will. That is the sort of faith that saves, and such a faith is sufficient alone.

So, understood in that sense, faith alone really is sufficient for salvation, but such a faith has to be more than just a belief in the existence of Jesus or otherwise it is dead.

Whereas God tells us:
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16), in Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus Himself tells us that calling Him Lord is not enough, but that we must do the will of the Father. Therefore, our belief in Jesus must include a submission to the will of God.

I mean, there’s no point throwing around Bible verses back and forth. It’s God’s Word, and one must let all of it speak and not just pick and choose which bits one wants to hear. Since you are a Protestant, I suggest you pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance and make sure that you are not projecting your own understanding onto Scripture, but instead let Scripture form your understanding. You should not be prejudiced. Even though from your point of view, Catholicism is wrong, we’re definitely not wrong on all things, since we believe in the Trinity and in Jesus Christ as our Saviour. Maybe we’re not wrong on this either.

God bless you

 

[papaspicy]

Repent in the scriptural sense means “to turn from sin and to turn to God” We must do this first before we can trust (believe) in God for our salvation.

What do you mean “to turn from sin and to turn to God?”

By the way there are over 150 verses in the NT that say that we are saved simply by putting our trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

What does you mean “to put our trust in the Lord Jesus Christ”

I can’t remember the last time a Catholic came to my door with concern for my soul…probably because they are under the yoke of Catholic law.

Or possibly they are hard at work in prayer for you, as I have been as I have read through your posts. Must we go out and be visible to “get the credit” for evangelization? Is prayer to no avail?

Luke 15:10 NAS95 10 “In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Repenting from sin and trusting Christ as Lord and Savior - faith…the only means of salvation…the grace of the father is such a beautiful picture of the grace of our loving Father. Not by works!

What is a work?

It might be helpful to all involved with this thread to ask themselves that question. Does the term work mean the same thing every time it is referenced in the New Testament? James 2:26, Ephesians 2:9, and Romans 11:6 all use the Greek ergon which means an action. In context it can be used to mean just about any action or deed, however in these texts it appears to be just generally anything done by the human and not by God.

In all the responses that support a “No Works” policy, there is still at least that one action that must be undertaken–one must repent and trust in God. Is this not an ergon? Is this not a work? Isn’t this something that a person must do himself? I expect the response that this confession is only because of the stirrings of the Holy Spirit in us, but I ask must we not also cooperate with the Spirit? Yes, “God chose us, before we chose him,” but we must notice that in order for salvation to be complete, we must actively accept God’s gift. It is not something we deserve (at least I know I don’t ), nor is it something that we can earn, but we must take action to receive that gift from God.

Isn’t it a work that a person must do for salvation when they “turn from sin and to turn to God” or
“put our trust in the Lord Jesus Christ” or when they are “Repenting from sin and trusting Christ”

I welcome your responses, but please in charity–this thread has been way too contentious for my taste.

Pax vobiscum

 

[Sir_Knight]

This sounds like discussions that I often engage in with anti-Catholics …

He responded, now saying that Catholicism is not the original Church. I’ll find something on that, shouldn’t be too hard.

Ask him where is the original church of the bible? Scripture says that it would be available to ALL generations. That would exclude ALL Protestant churches since even the oldest ones are less than 500 years old.

He either has to (A) provide you with that church; (B) Agree that it is the Catholic church; or (C) Conceed that the bible was wrong about the church being available to ALL generations. If he conceeds to that, then you can point out that if the bible is wrong about one thing, it COULD be wrong about other things and there is no way for us to know what those other things MIGHT be. Therefore, ANY promises that he places his faith in, COULD be wrong.

Oh, there is a fourth option that he could take (D) he could refuse to answer showing that he knows that he is wrong but lacks the courage to admit it.

 

[RNRobert]

You know, this whole “sola fide” thing was an unresolvable problem that caused me to abandon Protestantism. When attending church, or listening to preachers on the radio, or reading Protestant literature, I kept hearing that the only thing needed for salvation was “believing in Jesus.” As Nicene pointed out, there are certain verses that are popular with Protestants (David Currie in his book Born fundamentalist, Born again Catholic comments that Evangelicals usually focus on the book of Romans and ignore the Gospels). However, as a good Protestant who read his Bible, I couldn’t reconcile what I was taught with what I read. There was of course, the book of James, who explicitly tells us that “faith without works is dead” (no wonder Luther wanted that book out of the Bible!). But then there were the words of Jesus himself. “Not all who say ‘Lord, Lord’ will be saved” (Matt 7:26) and his parables in Matthew 25 clearly indicate that salvation or damnation is based on what we do or fail to do. Even Paul spoke of the need to “show one’s repentance by one’s deeds” and that those who neglected their family were "worse than infidels (1 Tim 5:8).
Once I learned what Catholics really taught (instead of what Protestants told me they taught), things like purgatory and indulgences made sense.