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slh3016
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TerrySong
Guest
People, I need your prayers. One minute my husband says he wants to try , and the next, he is holding back and telling me he " can’t overcome " all of my emotional problems, can’t meet my emotional needs, etc. I am just asking for a kind word once in awhile.
If I don’t think he treasures me, then it’s easy to be distant again.
It’s like a vicious circle. It seems I can forget , but he holds grudges. He withholds affection. He doesn’t talk, and it kills me.
Sure, I’ve got some emotional problems; I’m getting help for them. But I’m not a sum total of my problems any more than a person is who has any other disease.
If I don’t think he treasures me, then it’s easy to be distant again.
It’s like a vicious circle. It seems I can forget , but he holds grudges. He withholds affection. He doesn’t talk, and it kills me.
Sure, I’ve got some emotional problems; I’m getting help for them. But I’m not a sum total of my problems any more than a person is who has any other disease.
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slh3016
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I’ll be praying. I can relate to your situation on many levels.
Did you ever finish reading The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands? I need to re-read it because I’ve been overwhelmed lately and neglecting my relationship with my husband…the reality of it has been rearing its ugly head some lately
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EasterJoy
Guest
It is not “like” a vicious cycle. It is a vicious cycle. While there is a great likelihood that the root of this lies in a temperament and a past you did not ask for, even when abuse comes from a disease it does not hurt less to be abused. If someone overlooks abuse from an alcoholic, for instance, on the grounds that “he has a disease, he can’t help it,” they call that “enabling.” It is toxic to the person making excuses for the other and it is toxic for the person making excuses for hurting others. You are not the sum total of your problems, but you also have a lot of broken glass to clean up. You have to figure out how to put the hammer down and pick up the whisk broom and dustpan, instead. No one is going to rush out and replace their broken windows when some maniac who says “sorry” every time she smashes all the windows is still running around with her baseball bat and a story about why it isn’t her fault that she compulsively smashes in glass.
I think you each may need some outside way to find validation and support through this. You have to find a way to get through when you are disappointed in the other one or just too tired to do your part. You’re both running on empty. When you do penance, the person wronged does not want to be treated as if forgiveness of the debt is owed because the person who went into bankruptcy is making a token payment out of good will. I suspect you’ve both reached the point of emotional bankruptcy with each other, or very nearly have.
I don’t remember if I’ve already suggested this, but you are displaying some of Gottman’s Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse that foretell an extremely high risk of divorce: Your first concern needs to be how to give your husband a place that is entirely safe. Look out for yourself, but look out for him first. You’d do it for a child, surely. Well, none of us are iron when it comes to emotional lashings. Then next you have to find a way and a place for you to find some healings, too. Have the foresight to realize that the moment when you need healing will be the very moment your spouse is least capable of providing it. Make a plan for the support you will need at times like this to be there for you.
This is hard on you, too. Really, you need to find someone far away from this that she can give you emotional support and not feel you owe her some glass repairs. If you have someone strong like that to help you, make use of that.
Your husband, by the way, is “stonewalling.” Yes, that is a foreshadowing of divorce. You need to find a way for him to find a safe place without giving you an emotional shunning in the process. Some people use a “safe word” to say, “I love you, but I need to go hide myself somewhere where I can feel safe” or “I love you, but I’m going to say something I will wish I could take back if I don’t shut up and get away from here” or “I love you, but I am too emotional to make a good choice right now.” When you can give him leave instead of just being left, that might help. It can be something silly, like “I have an eyelash in my eye” or “we need to take this up again later, because I have a kink in my neck” or even “Flamingo!” (some nonsense safe word you choose that just stops everything), but I’d suggest something you can say in front of other people that keeps what you mean private, between the two of you.
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TerrySong
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Quote from EasterJoy:
[You are not the sum total of your problems, but you also have a lot of broken glass to clean up. You have to figure out how to put the hammer down and pick up the whisk broom and dustpan, instead. ]
We went away for a few days and I tried to do all the right things so we would both enjoy our time there. Except there were a few instances, like long intervals, where he wouldn’t talk to me ,so , I brought it up. And it was a disaster. He said I was "attacking " him. I felt I was just asking when he was going to say a few words to me.
I feel either, (A) He’s going to kill me with his silence, or (B) when he does respond, it’s with devastating blows to my very core, so that I cry and cry.
As for The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands, I put it down about halfway through. I’ll go back to it sometime. It’s just that right now it’s so tough to be nice to a person who’s said the things he has said to me.
[You are not the sum total of your problems, but you also have a lot of broken glass to clean up. You have to figure out how to put the hammer down and pick up the whisk broom and dustpan, instead. ]
We went away for a few days and I tried to do all the right things so we would both enjoy our time there. Except there were a few instances, like long intervals, where he wouldn’t talk to me ,so , I brought it up. And it was a disaster. He said I was "attacking " him. I felt I was just asking when he was going to say a few words to me.
I feel either, (A) He’s going to kill me with his silence, or (B) when he does respond, it’s with devastating blows to my very core, so that I cry and cry.
As for The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands, I put it down about halfway through. I’ll go back to it sometime. It’s just that right now it’s so tough to be nice to a person who’s said the things he has said to me.
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slh3016
Guest
Sounds like your husband is fighting a losing battle in many ways. He’s being silent to keep from saying things he may regret and knows will hurt you deeply but his silence is like heaping burning coals on you, too.
I suggest you pick back up that book and finish it. I also suggest you read The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman.
Honestly, I don’t know where your marriage stands but it doesn’t sound good. That doesn’t mean it can’t be saved but it’s not going to happen overnight. Been there, done that. It’s messy and it’s hard.
I suggest you pick back up that book and finish it. I also suggest you read The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman.
Honestly, I don’t know where your marriage stands but it doesn’t sound good. That doesn’t mean it can’t be saved but it’s not going to happen overnight. Been there, done that. It’s messy and it’s hard.
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GreyWings
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First, it’s okay to feel anger. Allow yourself in the moment to feel. Tell yourself your feelings are valid. Then give yourself some time to feel the anger, perhaps let tears out, and then approach your husband when you are calm and ready to talk.
In the case of “fight or flight” it’s better to allow yourself to have boundaries, put your hand up and say “STOP. I feel angry and I need space right now.”
^At least, this is what was taught to me by a professional. It works. “Don’t react, respond when ready.”
I hope that helps… if you think counseling could benefit, go for it. It is amazing that some people feel such anger because of some other issue in the past and certain things “trigger” those emotions in an extreme way. It’s probably not a bad idea to talk to a professional and find out if you have “triggers”
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TerrySong
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I have been talking to a counselor.
I just got through having another fight with my husband, after almost 24 hours of not talking
and leaving him alone, where I couldn’t stand it.
I even got out of the house for several hours, but have been so drained I needed to come home.
i didn’t want to come home because it 's not comfortable there with him.
I had to say something for fear this would go on till next morning, and he was just nasty to me, saying he’s “done” and he’s not trying.
I have been the one upstairs crying by myself, and he called it “stewing.” He just casts me in a different light.
It’s just that I have no one I can go to; I wish I could get out of here . He used to be my friend. I need a friend I can talk to.
I just got through having another fight with my husband, after almost 24 hours of not talking
and leaving him alone, where I couldn’t stand it.
I even got out of the house for several hours, but have been so drained I needed to come home.
i didn’t want to come home because it 's not comfortable there with him.
I had to say something for fear this would go on till next morning, and he was just nasty to me, saying he’s “done” and he’s not trying.
I have been the one upstairs crying by myself, and he called it “stewing.” He just casts me in a different light.
It’s just that I have no one I can go to; I wish I could get out of here . He used to be my friend. I need a friend I can talk to.
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jmjZelie
Guest
I am sorry if I am wrong, but this sounds so much like “gaslighting” to me, a psychological abuse tactic, whereby the abuser attempts to convince the target that they are the crazy or mean one.
OP, please see a professional counselor to sort this all out. This does not sound like you have an anger problem at all (to my perception) but rather a dangerous psychological abuse tactic. I am so sorry.
OP, please see a professional counselor to sort this all out. This does not sound like you have an anger problem at all (to my perception) but rather a dangerous psychological abuse tactic. I am so sorry.
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LongingSoul
Guest
As the thread has progressed, I’ve thought of introducing a similar possibility but do not want to say anything that might be taken as an armchair diagnosis. I know that when people experience consistent high levels of distress in their relationship with another person, it can be a reflection of a couple of things. One being some narcissism in the other or it could be some autistic/aspergers elements which can appear as narcissism but are more treatable with CBT and counselling.
I would also encourage you TerrySong, to have regular support counselling. It is not good to experience this type of distress endlessly.
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TerrySong
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Yes,
thank you to the last two posters for your diagnoses. They make me feel real good.
Yes, I am getting professional counseling. I did ask her for CBT, but she said it requires a lot of homework. I have heard from my doctor there (whom I like and respect very much) plus two other people there ) that this counselor is very effective, so I am trying to let her do her thing.
There is a danger on these forums of saying too much; I believe a few days ago when I came back on I asked for prayers.
thank you to the last two posters for your diagnoses. They make me feel real good.
Yes, I am getting professional counseling. I did ask her for CBT, but she said it requires a lot of homework. I have heard from my doctor there (whom I like and respect very much) plus two other people there ) that this counselor is very effective, so I am trying to let her do her thing.
There is a danger on these forums of saying too much; I believe a few days ago when I came back on I asked for prayers.
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TerrySong
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slh3016
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I think you may be misunderstanding Zelie. I don’t think they were implying that YOU were gaslighting but that your husband was gaslighting you
(That’s a distinct possibility.) That’s how I understood that comment anyway.Honestly, it’s going to be impossible for any of us to understand what is truly going on in your home. Your original posts indicated that you did suffer from anger issues and that your husband took the brunt of it. But, now they seem to indicate that he is psychologically abusing you by being quiet and/or passive aggressive in his behavior. So, I don’t know what to think. I’m glad you are getting counseling to help you sort through this.
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TerrySong
Guest
Yes, here, I can’t decide if you’re agreeing with the previous poster that I am seriously abusive . Or if you’re saying we both could be narcissistic or one of us has asbergers.
Yes I know I spend a lot of time thinking about myself and my feelings. I am also a giving
person who volunteers, who works and cares for others, who ministers at church.And yes, for the hundredth time, I am getting support counseling.
I wish I had more friends around, but we have moved so much we’ve left them in place to place.
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NovusFidem
Guest
Well, not sure if this is going to help, buuut…
I also suffer from quick anger. Usually with my father - anything he says seems to be directed at hurting me, to stir my anger (he knows I get angry, and he keeps poking me to make me angry, thinking it is funny when I erupt; then he insults me, saying I’m not a good Catholic). But the fact is: I know my father loves me very much. I am currently unemployed (just graduated December/2014), and living under his roof all my life sort of forces me to bow down (sometimes
).
When I returned to the Church, my anger was one of the problems I wanted to get rid of. But, BOY, was it difficult with my father constantly asking for it…
The best days end up being the ones where I do everything I must, out of love or just to avoid his criticizing. If he starts to complain and tell me down, I “humbly” accept the scolding. I say “humbly” because I often am so angry and fighting against answering him on the same level, so there might be some humbleness going around, I just don’t know how much.
Whenever I am able to avoid conflict - answering back, starting discussion over small things, - I am usually rewarded. He either feels guilty for treating me bad for those days (and, thus, starts to treat me well for a couple of days), or he completely avoids scolding me further.
From there, it is easier to deal with him. Since we are both “clear” from anger, we even joke a little, watch tv together, or even discuss delicate issues (such as my job hunting) without trying to hurt each other.
This is just what I do: I take it all in, because I know my father’s anger is not out of hate. He loves me, always has. In your case, however, I’d be tentative to try. See if it works first. Just like in my situation, it is not admitting you are wrong, it is conceding a point in order to work a truce. I need to highlight this, that you are not wrong, just to make sure he won’t use it against you.
Concede points. Do what you must. Ignore the bad. This fight is between you and your anger: your husband is just the form your anger is trying to take, and you’ll have to learn to see beyond that. He is probably hurting as well, not knowing what to do.
Stop seeking his apologies. If he’s anything like my father, he will never apologize. I mean, he is a man: he will show you he is sorry. He will start to concede small things, maybe avoid trouble, but that is all. Do what you must do as his wife, and see how he reacts to your kind side.
I also suffer from quick anger. Usually with my father - anything he says seems to be directed at hurting me, to stir my anger (he knows I get angry, and he keeps poking me to make me angry, thinking it is funny when I erupt; then he insults me, saying I’m not a good Catholic). But the fact is: I know my father loves me very much. I am currently unemployed (just graduated December/2014), and living under his roof all my life sort of forces me to bow down (sometimes
).When I returned to the Church, my anger was one of the problems I wanted to get rid of. But, BOY, was it difficult with my father constantly asking for it…
The best days end up being the ones where I do everything I must, out of love or just to avoid his criticizing. If he starts to complain and tell me down, I “humbly” accept the scolding. I say “humbly” because I often am so angry and fighting against answering him on the same level, so there might be some humbleness going around, I just don’t know how much.
Whenever I am able to avoid conflict - answering back, starting discussion over small things, - I am usually rewarded. He either feels guilty for treating me bad for those days (and, thus, starts to treat me well for a couple of days), or he completely avoids scolding me further.
From there, it is easier to deal with him. Since we are both “clear” from anger, we even joke a little, watch tv together, or even discuss delicate issues (such as my job hunting) without trying to hurt each other.
This is just what I do: I take it all in, because I know my father’s anger is not out of hate. He loves me, always has. In your case, however, I’d be tentative to try. See if it works first. Just like in my situation, it is not admitting you are wrong, it is conceding a point in order to work a truce. I need to highlight this, that you are not wrong, just to make sure he won’t use it against you.
Concede points. Do what you must. Ignore the bad. This fight is between you and your anger: your husband is just the form your anger is trying to take, and you’ll have to learn to see beyond that. He is probably hurting as well, not knowing what to do.
Stop seeking his apologies. If he’s anything like my father, he will never apologize. I mean, he is a man: he will show you he is sorry. He will start to concede small things, maybe avoid trouble, but that is all. Do what you must do as his wife, and see how he reacts to your kind side.
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jmjZelie
Guest
TerrySong,
I do not know how you interpreted my post the way you did. It actually scares me that you would misunderstand me so much. I am concerned that you are the one being gaslighted here, by your husband. So many of your posts contain signs of you being abused. For example, you say your husband says you have an anger problem, yet you describe what you do more as nagging. He is the one alternating between the silent treatment and screaming at you. What is really going on here? No one here on the Internet can help. You need a professional counselor to sort through all of this, to figure out the reality of the situation.
Edited to add
I went back and read through my earlier post and now I can see why you thought I was accusing you of being an abuser. I had no idea it could be read that way. It was a case of poor sentence construction, exacerbated by my haste in posting when I had just a moment to send a message to this thread. I am so sorry that you were hurt by my message that I posted out of concern for you.
I do not know how you interpreted my post the way you did. It actually scares me that you would misunderstand me so much. I am concerned that you are the one being gaslighted here, by your husband. So many of your posts contain signs of you being abused. For example, you say your husband says you have an anger problem, yet you describe what you do more as nagging. He is the one alternating between the silent treatment and screaming at you. What is really going on here? No one here on the Internet can help. You need a professional counselor to sort through all of this, to figure out the reality of the situation.
Edited to add
I went back and read through my earlier post and now I can see why you thought I was accusing you of being an abuser. I had no idea it could be read that way. It was a case of poor sentence construction, exacerbated by my haste in posting when I had just a moment to send a message to this thread. I am so sorry that you were hurt by my message that I posted out of concern for you.
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LongingSoul
Guest
Oh no! I was not saying that you were narcissistic… I was trying to describe what your husbands behaviour may constitute… without seeming like making a diagnosis or adding to your anger towards him. Your more recent posts seemed to indicate that he is controlling you by silence and causing you deliberate distress by saying he is ‘done’ etc.
Whatever the situation, it seems that he is not capable or able to meet your needs and you’ve both become trapped in a futile cycle. I do hope you can find the key to looking at your situation differently so that bitterness and resentment don’t become impossibly entrenched in your experience of living.
Best wishes, God bless.
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TerrySong
Guest
Zelie,
Thanks for explaining. I’m sorry I concluded differently from what you intended.
Also, thanks to LongingSoul for explaining; I also misinterpreted your post.
Thank you for your best wishes.
I am praying a novena to Our Lady, Undoer of Knots.
I have also been watching John Gotmann on youtube .
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TerrySong
Guest
Dear Novus,
That really helped me. I can relate to what you said. Especially about the part being between me and my anger. Because my husband is right about that. He has seen me
be angry around others. And when he said something to me yesterday, I felt the anger
rise up in me, just surge up to my neck, like a wave. And I thought, this is what I have
to control, my thoughts ! Because everything seems to be a disaster for me, or an emergency, or I have to be in control. That’s a big one for me.
But yes, he and I can have fun, watch TV, watch a ballgame, discuss some things.
And, I do definitely have to work on my kind side!
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