How do Muslims rationalize the actions of Muhammad?

[Reuben_J]

** I said there is no need to abuse any man of God. Don’t believe but do not abuse. Like your two friends here who are repeating each others own bad posts and trying to enjoy. Quite non-Catholic attitude. **

Abuse is mistreatment, cruelty and also ill-treatment. May I ask how did they abuse Mohammad? I am sincere in asking so that if it is reasonable then we will not do it again. Can you give an example the abuse of Mohammad here? Please planten, it is no use you’re saying Mohammad has been abused and you have not told us how that was.

** I did not like that christians should be disliked and they should be stopped from preaching. But now, I have got a good proof why the Muslims do not allow the christians to preach in their countries. Because the christians have a filthy attitude towards others leaders. **

Again how is that they have filthy attitude towards others leaders?

** It is necessary to block the work of such foolish abusive persons in any country. Nobody is killing you **if you do not try to kill any one,i/e/ if you do not abuse.

Does this mean that you will kill us if we continue to abuse Mohammad or that you feel that we abuse Mohammad?

** And what about you and your gang of abusers? Will they be peaceful? They are Quite unlike Jesus but using the name of Jesus only. We had known all along that your religion was false. But we have got a good proof now.**

Is saying that our religion is false not an abuse? I don’t know that Christianity is a religion of peace. Even if it is one of the attributes but normally you do not hear Christians say in their signatures that Christianity is a religion of peace.

I was hoping you continue to be peaceful because that’s what you declare as an Ahmadi. Would you like to change that? Besides many Muslims say Islam means peace and it is a peaceful religion. So I really would like it to be that way so that the world will be more peaceful. We have enough of killings and bombings and the retaliation killings and bombings.

 

[planten]

Abuse is mistreatment, cruelty and also ill-treatment. May I ask how did they abuse Mohammad? I am sincere in asking so that if it is reasonable then we will not do it again. Can you give an example the abuse of Mohammad here? Please planten, it is no use you’re saying Mohammad has been abused and you have not told us how that was.

Reuben, calling Muhammad a sex maniac, pedeophile, a killer and a liar is abuse or not?. If I call Jesus a sex maniac and all those words to Jesus, you will soon understand the meaning of abuse.

Again how is that they have filthy attitude towards others leaders?

Muhammad is a great leader. Calling him by bad names is a filthy attitude of the name sake Catholics.

Does this mean that you will kill us if we continue to abuse Mohammad or that you feel that we abuse Mohammad?

I did not say. But you said that some one is always ready to kill you in Muslim countries. I told you that those who abuse the senior leaders of a faith are asking for trouble and may be killed. I am not going to kill any one.

Is saying that our religion is false not an abuse? I don’t know that Christianity is a religion of peace. Even if it is one of the attributes but normally you do not hear Christians say in their signatures that Christianity is a religion of peace.

No it is not an abuse according to your standard. You do not feel that calling Muhamamd a sex maniac and pedeophile and a liar is any abuse. So how could calling your religion a false religion be any abuse. In fact calling Jesus a false man mad god is also no abuse.

I was hoping you continue to be peaceful because that’s what you declare as an Ahmadi. Would you like to change that? Besides many Muslims say Islam means peace and it is a peaceful religion. So I really would like it to be that way so that the world will be more peaceful. We have enough of killings and bombings and the retaliation killings and bombings.

I am quite peaceful. But you must have read the bad posts of your Catholic friends in which you also participated happily, abusing Muhammad. Are those name sake Catholics any peaceful persons? Surely not.

Keep hoping that I will be peaceful, as much as you people are peaceful, even more than that. You will not find me lacking in peaceful talk technology. Just control your own horses that they do not run wild.

I feel so sorry for the poor christians that a wonderful, peaceful, capable man (Jesus) came to teach them and he taught well. His own people (The Jews) did not accept him. That was bad. But what happened to those poor peopel who accepted Jesus. They were all misled very easily by some clever persons. What a waste of energy and effort of Jesus.

 

[brigantine]

Planten, the difference is mohammad was a sex addicted pedophile and misogynist by muslim’s own words and excepted writings. There are no such excepted writings in the Catholic Church. You have to make things up and lie about the Lord Jesus Christ to say the same things that are in excepted muslim writings about mohammad.

 

[planten]

Planten, the difference is mohammad was a sex addicted pedophile and misogynist by muslim’s own words and excepted writings. There are no such excepted writings in the Catholic Church. You have to make things up and lie about the Lord Jesus Christ to say the same things that are in excepted muslim writings about mohammad.

**There are some very good words too about Muhammad in the accepted works (writings) Why do you pick only some controvertial items?. No muslim believes in those writings which you are trying to explode here. How about the Da Vinci Code? That is a writing by some one.

Similar bad things can be found in the bible about Jesus too, his doubtful birth, the bad geneology of Jesus having some illegal born person in Jesus geneology in bibleNT.

I can tell the names of those born illegally and they are mentioned in the genes of Jesus in bibleNT.

Then another instance when a bad lady (in fact a previous pros) who rubbed the foul oil of her foul earnings on the head and feet of Jesus and Jesus let her do that. All these things cannot be justified. Thee are in your book.

The program to buy swords even by selling personal clothes was the mission of Jesus. But he could not go as far as that. He had a program of killing people with his swords.

I tell you it is a bad thing to dig out the bad ideas about the very senior leaders of any faith. If you throw stones at others, be sure that some stones will fall on you too. Will you accept them happily? I feel that you have real hatred for Jesus. I will soon prove that too. Do you want the proof?**

 

[brigantine]

There are some very good words too about Muhammad in the accepted works (writings) Why do you pick only some controvertial items?. No muslim believes in those writings which you are trying to explode here. How about the Da Vinci Code? That is a writing by some one.

Its not few lines of writings though Platen that describe who mohammad really was. It was HIS OWN words that gives us a very clear picture of his true character and that is not good. Last time I checked the Da Vinci Code is not a canonical writing so I will not comment on it!

Similar bad things can be found in the bible about Jesus too, his doubtful birth, the bad geneology of Jesus having some illegal born person in Jesus geneology in bibleNT.

None of these (even if true which they are not) are evil actions on the part of Jesus. That is the point its mohammad’s own actions that give people the repulsive view of him. It is his own words and actions that convict him!

**
Then another instance when a bad lady (in fact a previous pros) who rubbed the foul oil of her foul earnings on the head and feet of Jesus and Jesus let her do that. All these things cannot be justified. Thee are in your book.**

I’m not sure what you are talking about here. Are you talking about Mary of Bethany here? If so this is showing The Lords compassion. How in the world is this a bad thing?

The program to buy swords even by selling personal clothes was the mission of Jesus. But he could not go as far as that. He had a program of killing people with his swords.

Again all I will say on this is I can use your false prophets own words to convict him of evil and you are forced to use outside lies to talk bad of The Lord!

I tell you it is a bad thing to dig out the bad ideas about the very senior leaders of any faith. If you throw stones at others, be sure that some stones will fall on you too. Will you accept them happily? I feel that you have real hatred for Jesus. I will soon prove that too. Do you want the proof?

I beginning to wonder if continuing this conversation with you is the right thing to do. Its easy to see you are unprepared to defend your faith without having to lie about our faith. If you can’t defend your false prophet using his own words and teachings maybe you should rethink your faith in them!

 

[sedonaman]

I told you that those who abuse the senior leaders of a faith are asking for trouble and may be killed…

Here is proof that there is an invocation to kill someone for simply speaking out against Islam.

 

[Sister_Amy]

It is to me a testimony to the greatness of Muhammad (pbuh) that this forum and the Catholics on it will not cease their attacks against his character in order to smear Islam.

Rather than promote the validity of their own religion (that is, Catholicism), they are forced to attempt to brainwash members regarding Islam.

 

[sedonaman]

countless but media don’t relate religion with crime when sinners are non-Muslims.

Those are not religiously motivated. Islam is associated with Islamic terrorism because that is the association that the terrorists themselves choose to make to ensure they will go to Paradise. [Their words, not mine.]

Ask the Archbishop , did he count the verses on war , killing , concubines etc in his holy Bible ?

Those are only historical events, not examples on how to live your life, and are very few in number. There is no general call to “war, killing, taking of concubines,” etc. in the Bible. Islam, by contrast, teaches these as religious obligations of all Muslims to gain Allah’s favor.

 

[sedonaman]

Rather than promote the validity of their own religion (that is, Catholicism), they are forced to attempt to brainwash members regarding Islam.

Why do you consider it “brainwashing” to quote Islamic texts ?

 

[brigantine]

And yet you STILL will not defend your faith with the words of YOUR faith. Its really telling when you can only attack anothers faith to defend your own.

This forum has literally thousands of posts promoting the validity of the Catholic Faith! This post/topic is not for that because it clearly states “How do Muslims rationalize the actions of Muhammad?” so don’t use the bait and switch tactics to avoid that subject. If you want to learn about the Catholic Faith and its validity there are thousands of posts for you to do that. This thread is not about that its about the validity of muslim faith and fro the replies of muslims here I’m beginning to question if you all are up to the task.

Listen if you can’t defend your muslim faith with your own faiths writings maybe its time for you to look outside your faith for the truth!

It is to me a testimony to the greatness of Muhammad (pbuh) that this forum and the Catholics on it will not cease their attacks against his character in order to smear Islam.

Rather than promote the validity of their own religion (that is, Catholicism), they are forced to attempt to brainwash members regarding Islam.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Why do you consider it “brainwashing” to quote Islamic texts ?

It really has nothing to do with what’s being quoted, if the quotes are twisted and distorted out of their context beyond recognition.

I love the Prophet Muhammad, have no doubt about anything he did, and have no need to “rationalize” anything. It’s the people here who are trying to paint him as an evil character by twisting sources that in many cases aren’t even authentic–and to what end?

Surely the greatness of Muhammad must be, to them, frightening indeed.

 

[Sister_Amy]

And yet you STILL will not defend your faith with the words of YOUR faith. Its really telling when you can only attack anothers faith to defend your own.

This forum has literally thousands of posts promoting the validity of the Catholic Faith! This post/topic is not for that because it clearly states “How do Muslims rationalize the actions of Muhammad?” so don’t use the bait and switch tactics to avoid that subject. If you want to learn about the Catholic Faith and its validity there are thousands of posts for you to do that. This thread is not about that its about the validity of muslim faith and fro the replies of muslims here I’m beginning to question if you all are up to the task.

Listen if you can’t defend your muslim faith with your own faiths writings maybe its time for you to look outside your faith for the truth!

I’m obviously not interested in learning about the Catholic faith.

Are you interested in learning about Islam?

 

[brigantine]

No, and the more I read these weak empty defenses for muslim faith the more I realize my readings about it were correct. I’ve read portions of the koran and other muslim holy books. I try and learn about a subject from that subjects own writings before I make assumptions about that particular subject. I would suggest you do the same so you can more fully defend you own faith!

I’m obviously not interested in learning about the Catholic faith.

Are you interested in learning about Islam?

 

[R_not]

**There are some very good words too about Muhammad in the accepted works (writings) Why do you pick only some controvertial items?. No muslim believes in those writings which you are trying to explode here. How about the Da Vinci Code? That is a writing by some one.

Similar bad things can be found in the bible about Jesus too, his doubtful birth, the bad geneology of Jesus having some illegal born person in Jesus geneology in bibleNT.

I can tell the names of those born illegally and they are mentioned in the genes of Jesus in bibleNT.

Then another instance when a bad lady (in fact a previous pros) who rubbed the foul oil of her foul earnings on the head and feet of Jesus and Jesus let her do that. All these things cannot be justified. Thee are in your book.

The program to buy swords even by selling personal clothes was the mission of Jesus. But he could not go as far as that. He had a program of killing people with his swords.

I tell you it is a bad thing to dig out the bad ideas about the very senior leaders of any faith. If you throw stones at others, be sure that some stones will fall on you too. Will you accept them happily? I feel that you have real hatred for Jesus. I will soon prove that too. Do you want the proof?**

How convenient that the muslims don’t ‘believe’ in the controversial stuff! Instead of addressing mohammed on a thread about mohammed you deflect by bringing up Jesus. Start a thread about Him if you want.

Here is the problem. You cannot prove the bad stuff you say about Jesus - as told to you time and again. But, the bad stuff of mohammed is well documented - and much of it is out of his own mouth!

He did something good and did 1,000 things that were bad which is hard to overlook - unless you are a muslim who wants to pretend it doesn’t exist.

You squirm over mohammed’s poor behavior. And this is why I am wondering why you continue to be a muslim if it bothers you so much.

We don’t squirm over any of your accusations of Jesus because they are not true. And there were many witnesses over Jesus behavior.

What you want us to do is lie right along with you about mohammed. Well, lying is not to a practice that we are taught to do. So, basically you have to lie to say that mohammed was a nice guy and we don’t have to lie to say that Jesus was a bad guy. Both of which you seem very comfortable doing.

 

[sedonaman]

It really has nothing to do with what’s being quoted, if the quotes are twisted and distorted out of their context beyond recognition.

You said in another thread that Islamic doctrine “is not subject to human ‘interpretation’.” Yet when anyone points to any of the Koran’s more embarrassing passages, you fall back on the “taken-out-of-context” cop-out. By placing a passage in the “correct context”, you are interpreting it. So which is it? Can you interpret it or not?

Besides, we have a good way to put a passage in its correct context: exchange the terms for “Muslim”, “believer”, “follower” etc. with “Christian”, “Jew”, “kafir”, etc., and observe how Muslims react to being on the receiving end of Mohammed’s own words.

However, since Islam has no Golden Rule, the irony of this would escape you.

I love the Prophet Muhammad, have no doubt about anything he did, and have no need to “rationalize” anything. It’s the people here who are trying to paint him as an evil character by twisting sources that in many cases aren’t even authentic–and to what end?

To get them to know what Islam really is, and not the invented one dreamed up by multiculturalists.

Surely the greatness of Muhammad must be, to them, frightening indeed.

Yeah. Just like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were all great … in the notorious sense.

 

[Sister_Amy]

No, and the more I read these weak empty defenses for muslim faith the more I realize my readings about it were correct. I’ve read portions of the koran and other muslim holy books. I try and learn about a subject from that subjects own writings before I make assumptions about that particular subject. I would suggest you do the same so you can more fully defend you own faith!

That doesn’t even make sense. I’m not really defending anything here, I’m just making a point about how frustrating all the BS on the forum is, since I’ve been away for a while and now the full stench is striking me.

It’s good to learn about Islam from the sources of Islam–but that’s actually not what the folks here are doing. What they are actually doing is going to the enemies of Islam who have already taken the sources of Islam and distorted them.

So you’ve read portions of the Qur’an–is that supposed to impress me. Would you be impressed, for instance, if I said I’ve read portions of the Bible? I don’t think that’s very impressive. Doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans, if I may be honest.

But I have read “portions of the Qur’an” too. In fact, I’ve read the whole thing, and more than once. I’ve read a variety of Islamic texts (or “portions of” lol) and I’ve studied subjects with a qualified teacher (a shaykh who is qualified to teach islamic law.)

And I’m convinced that my opinion about Islam is correct, and that yours is wrong.

How can that be? Do you really think I haven’t studied Islam? Just a question.

 

[brigantine]

That doesn’t even make sense. I’m not really defending anything here, I’m just making a point about how frustrating all the BS on the forum is, since I’ve been away for a while and now the full stench is striking me.

It’s good to learn about Islam from the sources of Islam–but that’s actually not what the folks here are doing. What they are actually doing is going to the enemies of Islam who have already taken the sources of Islam and distorted them.

So you’ve read portions of the Qur’an–is that supposed to impress me. Would you be impressed, for instance, if I said I’ve read portions of the Bible? I don’t think that’s very impressive. Doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans, if I may be honest.

But I have read “portions of the Qur’an” too. In fact, I’ve read the whole thing, and more than once. I’ve read a variety of Islamic texts (or “portions of” lol) and I’ve studied subjects with a qualified teacher (a shaykh who is qualified to teach islamic law.)

And I’m convinced that my opinion about Islam is correct, and that yours is wrong.

How can that be? Do you really think I haven’t studied Islam? Just a question.

Then as has been asked refute the accusations against mohammad! It should be very simple since you are well read on the subject!

 

[Sister_Amy]

You said in another thread that Islamic doctrine “is not subject to human ‘interpretation’.” Yet when anyone points to any of the Koran’s more embarrassing passages, you fall back on the “taken-out-of-context” cop-out. By placing a passage in the “correct context”, you are interpreting it. So which is it? Can you interpret it or not?

Is there any logic there? Because that paragraph doesn’t make a lick of sense. There is not a single passage in the Qur’an which I consider to be “embarrassing.” But there are a number of passages which are taken out of their context, twisted, and distorted to defame Islam. The interpretation thus is a lie–a human interpretation, a non-Muslim interpretation. That’s the stuff you’ve been reading.

When I put it back in context, I’m rather doing the opposite of interpreting. I’m presenting it to you unadulterated.

Besides, we have a good way to put a passage in its correct context: exchange the terms for “Muslim”, “believer”, “follower” etc. with “Christian”, “Jew”, “kafir”, etc., and observe how Muslims react to being on the receiving end of Mohammed’s own words.

Not one word in the Qur’an is Muhammad’s. One of the many errors you’ve made.

However, since Islam has no Golden Rule, the irony of this would escape you.

Really? I would have thought by now it wasn’t possible for anyone to be so obtuse, considering that the Islamic “Golden Rule” was quoted by the most popular person on the planet–Barack Obama.

None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.

An authentic hadith.

To get them to know what Islam really is, and not the invented one dreamed up by multiculturalists.

What a silly statement. You think that by twisting evidence that was fabricated to begin with is going to teach you what Islam really is. You must be joking.

Yeah. Just like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were all great … in the notorious sense.

This statement is really inexcusable, entirely backwards. It shows that you know nothing about Muhammad, saws.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Then as has been asked refute the accusations against mohammad! It should be very simple since you are well read on the subject!

Which accusations?

(And no, I haven’t read through the however-many pages of this thread, nor have I the intention of doing so. If you want me to “refute the accusations” please specify which accusations so I can get on with it then.)

 

[brigantine]

Sister Amy I understand your frustration but by attacking people instead of addressing the issues is not going to win your argument.

When I put it back in context, I’m rather doing the opposite of interpreting. I’m presenting it to you unadulterated.

Are you serious? This is your defence?

Not one word in the Qur’an is Muhammad’s. One of the many errors you’ve made.

WOW!!!